DIY glycol chilled plastic conical fermenters

[TrickyDick]

Tonight I tackled the reservoir and the A/C unit. I didn't finish. I ran into some difficulty. I got to the point where I didn't know what to disassemble and what not to take apart.


It looks like the AC unit, if it were left to do its job of cooling a regular room, would have the front condenser assembly be the cold part, across which, there is air flow and it seems, a circular drum type fan unit. It seems that the drum unit could be removed since there is no air flow required of the condenser once it is submerged in coolant. The coils are also tinted blue.

It seems the rear side of the unit also has condenser coils, and the the traditional rotary fan blades cool this off, which probably "sucks" heat from the cold side, and requires the fan. It seems this fan and condenser assembly must remain relatively intact and mounted to the AC frame, which can then rest or bolt to the stand.

I haven't pulled apart the cold half of the condenser assembly yet, nor carved into the cooler to try and fit the cooling coils into the coolant reservoir... yet.

It seems this is a point of no return, and I want to get it right.

Are there any tips or suggestions for doing this from those who've been there and done that before?

My plan is to get the whole coolant reservoir setup and then do the plumbing last. I hope the cooler can hold the condenser and the pump as well..


TD

 

[staffordj]

It sounds like your unit is very similar to mine and you are on the right track. Remove all the outer shell. You can remove the blower on the cold side. There will likely be styrofoam and/or plastic ducting that can be removed also. To make it easier, once you remove all of the sheet metal screws from the cold side, it should lift out of the plastic base. Just be really careful not to crimp the copper tubing connecting it to the condensor. When all is said and done, you should be able to get down to just the plastic base with the condenser mounted to it, the fan and hot side radiator and the detached cold side radiator and the controls. The controls will have a thermocouple attached to it that can be removed also. Good luck.

 

[Eagleburger]

What is the purpose of the glycol? Why is it preferred over water?

 

[TrickyDick]

What is the purpose of the glycol? Why is it preferred over water?

Keeps the water from freezing - the A/C cold-side condenser coil will freeze plain water. Glycol used is food grade non-toxic and tasteless, but should never enter the wort under normal circumstances.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

It sounds like your unit is very similar to mine and you are on the right track. Remove all the outer shell. You can remove the blower on the cold side. There will likely be styrofoam and/or plastic ducting that can be removed also. To make it easier, once you remove all of the sheet metal screws from the cold side, it should lift out of the plastic base. Just be really careful not to crimp the copper tubing connecting it to the condensor. When all is said and done, you should be able to get down to just the plastic base with the condenser mounted to it, the fan and hot side radiator and the detached cold side radiator and the controls. The controls will have a thermocouple attached to it that can be removed also. Good luck.

Can't really see how to remove the fan on the cold condenser just yet.



For the hot side fan and condenser, that should all stay mounted on the plastic tray? correct? Does any of the styrofoam remain for the hot side?



The cold side thermocouple is the piece wedged between the condenser fins I am assuming.



I think I had started removing the HOT side last night but realized it before I continued beyond the point of return. Trying to slide the fan out would seem easiest - too bad there isn't enough slack in the wiring in order to do so..



I'll get back at it tonight. Along with probably another step, such as prepping the conicals and mounting all the hardware to them.



I'll try and take some pics of the A/C disassembly tonight for future builders.



TD

 

[parkerhd36]

Has anyone looked at using something other than the BCS to control all of this? I noticed brewershardware has them backordered right now, then I got to looking at some of the other systems available. Fermtroller to be specific I just read through the description and it sounds like it would also easily give you heating capability

 

[pickles]

The fermtroller will definitely work for this. I use it on my ferm chamber. Each zone heats and cools simultaneously.

 

[TrickyDick]

What would you use for heat source, heat wrap? How well would that play with the plastic tanks and the neoprene?
Can the BCS do this as well? I don't have a major need for heat since I can simply heat my entire, small, basement when needed during the relatively mild winters in Florida.

TD


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[parkerhd36]

I don't really know anything about the fermtroller. Would there be any major advantage to one system over the other? Would it still be setup the same way as the way as with the bcs? I already have nearly everything here or on order to start building the panel

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[pickles]

I'm not sure how you'd heat a plastic conical honestly. I was just confirming that the fermtroller would indeed heat and cool. I believe the BCS can do that as well. I've recently seen someone have a heating and cooling "glycol" loop, but it seemed complicated if I recall.

In regards to a comparison between the two, I suggest searching as it's been discussed at length and I don't want to derail the OP. I can tell you that the sensors for BCS are not compatible with Fermtroller and vice versa.

 

[staffordj]

I built an arduino based controller, but it is a big pain in the ass, so unless you want a good project, I suggest using something off the shelf. I am heating my conicals with flexwatt tape. I use a pulsed output with an on time of 40secs and off time of 10 secs and the flexwatt never gets above 90F. My garage got down around 50F this winter and there was no issue with keeping the fermentor at 72F.

 

[Shockerengr]

I'm not sure how you'd heat a plastic conical honestly. I was just confirming that the fermtroller would indeed heat and cool. I believe the BCS can do that as well. I've recently seen someone have a heating and cooling "glycol" loop, but it seemed complicated if I recall.

In regards to a comparison between the two, I suggest searching as it's been discussed at length and I don't want to derail the OP. I can tell you that the sensors for BCS are not compatible with Fermtroller and vice versa.

I've dropped a submersible aquarium heater in one in a pinch, as well as taped bucket heaters to the side....however, i've picked up a cartridge heater to try. I'll report back on how well it works.

 

[TrickyDick]

Update-

spent an hour or so tonight (wasted a couple with kids homework BS on top of that) working on the rig.

Took a few pics (to be posted later) of the AC and the Cooler/reservoir.

Seems will work fine.

couple questions arise. Where in the cooler should supply/return lines be tapped? I'm thinking the lid so as to avoid leaks, but it seems Packet's cooler were on the side, but maybe below the fluid level inside the cooler.

Ditto on the thermometer.

Is it critical the location of the condenser coil inside the cooler? Mine is going to be on a tilt a bit.

Wondering if the 1/6HP pump is overkill. maybe a smaller pump would be fine? this one is rather large.

anyways.. this is taking a bit longer than I thought it would. Hope I can finish it up by Sunday at the latest.

TD

 

[staffordj]

Here are some pics of my AC. My connections are in the side, but I just notched the upper lip of the cooler. It should be ABOVE the coolant level. I did not use quick connects because I don't really plan on disconnecting it, so save some money and potential leaks by taking the tubing directly into the cooler. Placement of the lines, pump and coil should be made to encourage good circulation in the cooler. I have the pump on one side (and it is tilted some, not all of it is submerged), the coil on the other and the return in the corner behind the coil. The thought is that the return will have to flow through the coil to get back to the pump inlet. My thermocouple is in the lid.

I removed everything from the base of the AC unit initially and then realized that the base would work well for my system, so I cut the base to give clearance under the conical and re-installed the components. This may have helped in removing all of the extra plastic and Styrofoam pieces.

 

[TrickyDick]

Helpful. Thank you.

Because my stand is metal there are 22" between the posts, I had to use a smaller cooler. I will probably want it to be as full as possible given the smaller volume. I think I'm going to put my holes in the lid of the cooler, and some weatherstripping around the lid edge to keep coolant from sloshing out if/when I move the cart.

I'm going to have cut the plastic base on my AC to get it to fit. I wanted to minimize the manhandling of the copper coils. Once I had it such that it would fit into the cooler I felt that I didn't want to mess with the position much more,

Thanks for the suggestion on placement of the pump and return lines. I think I'll be able to do something like that with mine as well.

Tonight hopefully there we be no homework drama to deal with and I can spend a couple or more hours working on it. Still have a long way to go. Need to plan out my plumbing, drill some holes in the aluminum deck, and finish up the control panel connections. I think I'll probably tackle the conicals last.

Trying to decide where to mount the hydraulic connectors and the mechanized valves. Want to put most of the plumbing below deck as possible.

TD


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[staffordj]

Here are a few more pics of my system including the Flexwatt heater and Arduino controller. For the Flexwatt, I have the 3" piece that you can see in the picture and two 12" pieces on the cone. If I were to do it over again, I would not use two different widths as they do not heat up to the same temperature. The 3" material I have gets hotter, so I have to use an 80% duty cycle to keep the temperature ~90F. The 12" wide probably only gets up to 80F. I think using vertical strips of the 3" may have worked better, but it is working well, so I am leaving it alone.

 

[noizex]

I built an arduino based controller, but it is a big pain in the ass, so unless you want a good project, I suggest using something off the shelf. I am heating my conicals with flexwatt tape. I use a pulsed output with an on time of 40secs and off time of 10 secs and the flexwatt never gets above 90F. My garage got down around 50F this winter and there was no issue with keeping the fermentor at 72F.

May I ask why is it a big pain to use Arduino controller for this? Do you mean that you have to write the software yourself, or there is some other reason? Because even if you have, it gives waaay more flexibility than any off-the-shelf solution. I've seen people often try to hack or even asking manufacturer to change the software for things they just couldn't achieve with fixed functionality software.

 

[staffordj]

Don't get me wrong, I really like the controller. It just takes a lot of time to design and build the circuit and write the software. I first built one for a chest freezer fermentation compartment and this is an expanded version. It is really reliable and like you say, I have the flexibility to do what I want with it.

 

[TrickyDick]

Taking a LOT longer than I thought it would.

All I was able to get finished last night was drilling the cooler lid and fittings partially installed. Staring to look like something though.

Question about the operation of the AC. I know the BCS controller will activate the AC outlet into which it will be powered from.
What about the switches/dials on the unit? Obviously it needs to be turned to one of the ON positions, but which one? Ditto on the coldness knob. I'm thinking max coldness? For the other I think fan low speed, but AC on the higher of the two settings?

Tonight I try to tackle finishing up the control panel, and maybe doing some of the rest of the plumbing on the reservoir. Maybe I can start on the conicals themselves.

I notice that there is a large lip on the inside of the conical when you remove the lid. It seems that this part should probably be trimmed away?

TD


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[staffordj]

The difference between the hi AC and low as far as I can tell is the fan speed, so it doesn't really mater. The compressor is either on or off, there is no variable level of cooling in the coils. The coldness doesn't matter at all because it is triggering off of the thermocouple that you removed.

I did not trim away the lip, but if you can do it cleanly, it may not be a bad idea. Its pretty rough on mine.

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks.

I guess the AC control makes sense when you put it that way:compressor must be on or off. Hope that fan doesn't blow dust and crap all over the place... I don't think I could get the partial styrofoam fan shroud back onto it now.

I think that for me, installing the cooler fittings through the lid, that I will want to use the cam locks rather than direct plumb. How do you seal off the thermowell for the cooler? Thinking just some silicone caulking.

Seems like that lip, during a vigorous fermentation would permit krausen to rise about the lip, but below the lid, and would likely then be very difficult/impossible to clean. I think I'm going to try and trim away as much as possible.

I bought a can of the clear sealant spray when we were all discussing the air tightness and gaskets a while back. It's that stuff from the info-mercial where he sprays a screen door installed at the bottom of a boat then goes out into the lake with it. Not sure I'm going to use it or if it is food safe. Actually got it for a gutter leaking onto my pool deck, but thought it might help seal the lid insert.

TD




Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[staffordj]

I didn't seal the thermowell in the cooler. It is several inches above the liquid level and I drilled it so it fits pretty snugly. Silicone should work fine though.

I have yet to get my conicals to seal. I am using a 1/4" o-ring. The gasket someone posted earlier that fits around the edge of the lid seems like a good option, but I have not been able to justify spending $40 each for gaskets. I am kegging a beer tonight and will have the system available to start messing with the sealing. I am also trying to get wifi working on my controller so I can start sending data to the web.

 

[NatchezBrew]

I'm not very good at reading electrical diagrams and I'm trying to rewire my AC units controls. Could someone help, I bought the same Frigidaire unit previous discussed in this thread.

 

[staffordj]

Can you post pictures of your controls and the wiring inside? Generally, you just need to bypass the temperature control part. There will be power and neutral and ground connections into the controls from the plug, the power will be routed through the switch and the Power and neutral will go out of the box to the fan and the compressor. Grounds will connect to metal parts of the assembly like the compressor and coils.

 

[pricedawg]

Don't waste your time on the gasket. The type I bought did not work


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[TrickyDick]

Don't waste your time on the gasket. The type I bought did not work


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

was that the red one custom 18" from that gasket company (that I bought three of still in the bag)?

Gotta look up the return policy.

What was the issue with it?

I saw some folks doing a totally new lid with O-ring, and plexiglass top with screws to tighten against the O Ring.

Frankly, I would like an air tight seal so I can use it for lagering beer inside for 6-12 weeks if necessary, or even long term aging/conditioning.

TD

 

[pricedawg]

Tricky, it was that same gasket. At first I thought it was air tight, but after actually fermenting in it the smell of fermentation was so strong in my fermentation chamber while the blowoff hose was silent.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[pricedawg]

Thinking of the plexiglass method myself


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[TrickyDick]

I bought a can of flex seal. Not sure if it'll help. It definitely the lid that's leaking though?? Is it the threads that leak on the insert and lid or is it leaking around the insert, or can't you tell? I'm wondering if you could try pressurizing the conical with a couple psi to see if you could see where tr leak is coming from. Packet has previously said he has no ill effect from air leak. I suppose that is all good since the original Pasteur flasks were not air tight either. I'd really feel better if I knew my tanks were air tight though since I'd planned to do lagering in them possibly after fermentation is done. I know a lot of yeast clings to sides and all but suppose could always transfer from one tank into another.

TD


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Chrisl77]

The lid is in 2 pieces you have the ring that screws into the conical and the lid that screws into the ring. You would need to take the ring off and put a good bead of silicone under it then reinstall it. If you us a oring I would put a little keg lube on it to make sure the lid does not bind on the oring and stretch it when you screw the lid down. Alternately you could do what I did. I removed the lid and that ring that is screwed on and made 8 evenly spaced holes around the outside of the raised lip that that insert was screwed into. I put a ss bolt through each hole with an oring between the head of the bolt and the conical. I locked the bolt in place with a ss nut. I put some high density foam gasket material on the raised lip and made a new lid out of this HDPE sheet, attaching it with some wing nuts. I have done 6 batches with this so far and my airlock bubbles every time.