DIY Conical Fermenter idea

[Yuri_Rage]

It does have hf arc starting. See the specs image.

Damn...I looked all over for that...

I wasn't bashing your circuit breaker setup, merely making a suggestion.

I totally agree with your opinion on the machine, but I definitely wanted to point out some of the potential flaws since the majority of the folks here aren't welders.

 

[brewman !]

I never knew this sort of machine existed at all. I should spend more time learning about brewing ! I'll do a bit more research before I pull the trigger on buying one.

I've long thought that the electronic welders (TIG, MIG and Plasma) are way over priced for what is inside them.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I never knew this sort of machine existed at all. I should spend more time learning about brewing ! I'll do a bit more research before I pull the trigger on buying one.

I've long thought that the electronic welders (TIG, MIG and Plasma) are way over priced for what is inside them.

What do you mean? I always assumed there are little gnomes in corduroy pants living inside. When you turn the machine on, they rub their legs together to make electricity. Do you think it's cheap to catch gnomes and force them to wear corduroy pants??!!!!!!

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I've long thought that the electronic welders (TIG, MIG and Plasma) are way over priced for what is inside them.

COMPLETELY agreed! I spent way too much a few years ago for the Lincoln Squarewave machine in my garage. It's treated me well, but for the price, I should be able to walk away from a project while the machine completes it! Prices have come down significantly since then, and Miller has some really attractive light/medium duty machines that I'd love to have.

If you decide to get one of these "all-in-wonder" machines, post a thread about it (so we can quit hijacking the molten plastic gamble thread). I'd love to hear how it works!

 

[brewman !]

Great discussion guys !

COMPLETELY agreed! I spent way too much a few years ago for the Lincoln Squarewave machine in my garage. It's treated me well, but for the price, I should be able to walk away from a project while the machine completes it! Prices have come down significantly since then, and Miller has some really attractive light/medium duty machines that I'd love to have.

What I can't understand is why the tiny little MIG/TIG/Plasma boxes cost as much as my big, heavy stick box.

I weld with this.
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/stick/dialarc_250_ac_dc/

It weighs 365 pounds and welds beautifully. The MIG/TIG/Plasma boxes weigh about 35 pounds ! The price of electronics has fallen like a rock.

If you decide to get one of these "all-in-wonder" machines, post a thread about it (so we can quit hijacking the molten plastic gamble thread). I'd love to hear how it works!

I definitely will.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Great discussion guys !

What I can't understand is why the tiny little MIG/TIG/Plasma boxes cost as much as my big, heavy stick box.

Absolutely a great discussion.

FYI, my TIG machine weighs 200+ lbs and can kick out almost 200 Amps in TIG or stick mode...not exactly a toy either. Not that it's an excuse for the cost!

 

[disaffected]

Can welding be learned easily and safely at home by reading books and practicing, or is it better to take a class?

The only classes I can find are at community colleges, and they are quarter or semester long classes that are geared more for people who are going into the trade.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Can welding be learned easily and safely at home by reading books and practicing, or is it better to take a class?

The only classes I can find are at community colleges, and they are quarter or semester long classes that are geared more for people who are going into the trade.

I'm fairly self-taught with a bit of hands-on instruction as well as a pretty good background in things mechanical. I HIGHLY recommend taking a class - welding is inherently dangerous and somewhat difficult to master. I'm probably going to find a community college that offers welding courses and take a few credit hours. I don't see a reason not to take a class geared toward professionals - I want professional quality welds.

Despite my lack of formal training, my welds have withstood some pretty harsh loads, including towing. I can also run beads on rather thin sheet metal with a high degree of success. Take that for what it's worth (perhaps not much...).

 

[Grimsawyer]

I saw earlier how it was brought up that a bucket would be about paper thin when you get close to 45 degrees... Well, when I was between 10 and 16 I was(ok, still am to a degree) quite destructive. We would burn anything. We(we being the neighborhood kids my age) would cut anything, shoot with what ever could be shot. When burning we had come across buckets. We would get long rods of metal hot and poke them through anything. Roadkill, trees, doggy droppings... etc. We melted a few buckets and what I always thought to be interesting is how tough even the thin spots in a bucket were. So if a bucket was paper thin I"m sure there would still be enough integrity to hold beer as long as there was a good method for holding the unit off the floor, etc... Just my 2 cents...

 

[Bsquared]

I use to work in a Plumbing supply shop and we had a guy we would buy sheet copper for. he used it to weld up his own Moon shine Still. He was an experienced fabricator and did a nice job, but its nothing I could ever do.

But back to the Plastic conical Bucket...I did a little searching and found this site

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...usplastic&category_name=20726&product_id=3863

they have fill buckets 15 to 88gal from $70-$200, they would need to be outfitted with valves and you would need a stand but I bet you could save a couple hundred bucks and set up a 15gal fermenter.

 

[dantodd]

I think that's the same tank they have at plastic-mart. But plastic-mart's 15gallon is $99 including stand.

Plastic-mart has smaller conicals too.. http://www.plastic-mart.com/

 

[Grimsawyer]

Woah.... Is the plastic used on those food grade. Had alot of them fancy book learnin' smart people words to describe what it was made of. Does the phraise "meets FDA standards" mean food grade? I assume so, but you know what they say about assumptions. If I'm reading that right a 15 gallon conical fermenter would be $135.86 plus shipping plus the cost to outfit it with some ball valves? that would be what, 180, 190ish?:rockin: Man! I Need a few of those!!!

 

[Spoonta]

IMam thinking of building a mould an building 1 or 2 out of fiber glass

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

IMam thinking of building a mould an building 1 or 2 out of fiber glass

I've done some glass work. They do make a Food-Grade epoxy resin. I don't know much about it, but since we're talking about long-ish term storage, using anything else would seem to be very foolish.

 

[dantodd]

I fired an email off to plastic-mart to ask about food-safe status of the conicals.

 

[Spoonta]

I've done some glass work. They do make a Food-Grade epoxy resin. I don't know much about it, but since we're talking about long-ish term storage, using anything else would seem to be very foolish.

That the 1 I hade in mind or an ozo resin the same as we build the wine vats out of

 

[alemonkey]

Wouldn't it be hard to get a smooth enough surface with fiberglass? Even the best gel coat I've seen usually needs some filler, and you probably wouldn't want that in contact with your beer.

 

[the_bird]

Food grade, in the context of a fermenter, basically means completely smooth, right? That's my understanding of why a bucket from the HBS is food-grade and one from Home Depot is not. I know there could also be issues with the materials itself, but I'm been under the impression that the primary differentiator is how thoroughly they can be sanitized.

My concern with this whole project, whether it's melting/deforming a bucket, or putting something together with fiberglass, or whatever, is that you can't have the little cracks, crevices, nooks, and crannies where nasties like to hide and where sanitizer doesn't reach.

 

[dantodd]

I just got an email back from the mfg. of these conical tanks. The LDPE material they use to manufacture the tanks is FDA approved for food. However; they are not specifically designed for food service so they have not been submitted to NSF for certification. NSF is an NGO and certification is not required for food-service use. AFAIK using these tanks in a restaurant environment would not get you dinged in inspection. If I ever move up to 10+ gallon batches I will almost certainly use one of these and would have no qualms about drinking beer fermented in one.

 

[Orfy]

If you need a guinea pig to test all of your first 10 gallon batch then I'm sure I could help out a fellow brewer in need.

 

[alemonkey]

I wonder how the lids seal in this tanks?

 

[Bsquared]

. If I ever move up to 10+ gallon batches I will almost certainly use one of these and would have no qualms about drinking beer fermented in one.

Thanks for the info, I want to upgrade to 10+ batches as well. looks like a fun project to convert one to those to a Fermentation vessel.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I live in a house with a full breaker box.

I put a new 220V breaker in for the air compressor.

I doubled up the dryer breaker for the welder. I have a big 250A Miller stick welder. Its easy to prevent blowing the breaker. I just tell my wife that I am going to do some welding and not to use the dryer. No big deal.

Add a subpanel. If you know enough to add breakers, you know enough to add panels. Don't double up on a breaker.

 

[dantodd]

I wonder how the lids seal in this tanks?

I'm sure they seal well enough to keep out the stray nasties floating around and probably not well enough to be a pressure vessel.

 

[brewman !]

Add a subpanel. If you know enough to add breakers, you know enough to add panels. Don't double up on a breaker.

The feed isn't big enough into the box and the box is full. I can't add a sub panel without getting an electrical inspection. You can double up a breaker without an inspection. Its an older house. The wiring is a real mess.

 

[brewman !]

I was thinking about my perfect fermentor vessel tonight as I was racking my wine.

It would be a 7.5 gallon conical fermentor. 60 degree cone. Made of clear plastic like the Better Bottles are. The neck would be just like the neck on the BB, but with screw in inserts so that the vessel could be pressurized somewhat. Maybe enough to carbonate with, but surely enough to pressure rack/filter from.

It would be nice to have a screw on lid, but I'd guess it couldn't be pressurized then.

It would have a side port like the BB do for sampling and racking (if necessary) and bottling from.

I'd definitely want it clear so that you can see what is going on.

I'd definitely want it a pressure vessel so that one could filter as its bottled or racked.

There isn't anything wrong with the BB plastic. I'd like that over SS for cost and being able to see in.

 

[dantodd]

The feed isn't big enough into the box and the box is full. I can't add a sub panel without getting an electrical inspection. You can double up a breaker without an inspection. Its an older house. The wiring is a real mess.

I added a primary and made my existing panel a sub-panel. Some day I'll have to get an inspection....

 

[brewman !]

I added a primary and made my existing panel a sub-panel. Some day I'll have to get an inspection....

I was wondering about that. I didn't want to say anything. Did you change the feed coming into the house to handle the higher load or was it adequate already ?

Some jurisdictions say that if you start changing one major thing about the electrical system that you have to bring it all up to spec. My friend couldn't put an addition onto his house for that reason.

 

[dantodd]

I actually have really old knob and tube wiring in the house and I added a hot tub. So, I dropped in a load box and ran nice 200 amp capable copper to the old load box. Unfortunately I only have 100amp service and aluminum wiring into the service entry. I'm pretty sure that when I get a permit I'll have to upgrade the rest of the house, I also want to get 200 amp service, the hot tub and fish tanks really suck up the juice.

 

[Spoonta]

I did my apprenticeship in boat building and was thing tha a male plug would be the way to go