Ditch The Caramel Malts?

[BeardedBrews]

I have been trying to figure out a malt base for my house Pale Ale (Session IPA). To hear Mitch Steele, or Jamil, or most of the publishing world talk about it, Caramel malts should be avoided in a Pale / IPA when possible.

I'm on board with this plan, since my wife often reports that my session attempts are "still a little too sweet", and I have not been terribly happy with how my 8-10% C40 ales have aged. What I don't want to end up with is a beer with 0 body and mouth feel.

My big question is, how would you guys approach the challenge of a 0% Caramel malt bill for a 40IBU American Hopped Ale? I would like to use plain american 2-row if I can, but if the consensus is MO or nothing, I can be convinced to switch.

5% Vienna + 5% Munich?
8% Munich only?
Honey / Biscuit / Belgian Abbey?

Is a dose of Dextrin malt a requirement if I am going to completely forego the Caramel?

Add Wheat?
Mash Warm (154)?
Quit worrying about the color?


I have decided that I'm going to just start making batches of this to see what turns out, but before I dove in blind I thought I'd ask the experts!

Thanks Guys

 

[hio3791]

I like Vienna. Munich is nice but to me, it adds sweetness if used too much (in an APA/IPA). For body, just mash a little higher. I haven't used Carapils in years and don't miss it.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I'm an idiot and mis-posted this thing.

@yooper or @txbrew can you move this post over to the Ingredients forum where it belongs?

Sorry guys!

 

[theheroguy]

40 ibus session ale doesn't seem like it requires much from the malt base. All 2 row would be fine for me depending on the hops used. You need to tell us what you want from the malt and if you ever have head formation/retention problems etc.

 

[TheHopfather]

You could try 2 Row + Golden Promise (or Pearl, Maris Otter, etc) + flaked oats/barley/wheat. Get's you some malt from the pale ale malts and some body from the flaked stuff. You could always toss in a bit of honey malt for sweetness if you wanted it.

 

[JKaranka]

Go all 2-row and don't worry about colour or body. If your wife still finds it sweet, the problem is something else. If you find it too dry, add something next time. I like my beers dry and I only use malts high in dextrins in dark beers (usually Brown malt).

 

[BeardedBrews]

40 ibus session ale doesn't seem like it requires much from the malt base. All 2 row would be fine for me depending on the hops used. You need to tell us what you want from the malt and if you ever have head formation/retention problems etc.

The closest I've come to 100% 2-row was a 1.060 / 55ibu with 95.8% 2-row and 4.2% C20. I didn't think there was enough body to support that batch, but I was also unhappy with the way the NZ hops faded to almost nothing.

I have not generally had head formation/retention problems, but I am also usually adding caramel malts of some sort.

Going heavier on Munich was my first thought:
70% 2-row
25% Munich 10
5% Wheat

But I wasn't sure if I would overpower the hop flavor that way.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Go all 2-row and don't worry about colour or body. If your wife still finds it sweet, the problem is something else. If you find it too dry, add something next time. I like my beers dry and I only use malts high in dextrins in dark beers (usually Brown malt).

This is probably my best option... quit overthinking it and just make beer!

 

[micraftbeer]

40 ibus session ale doesn't seem like it requires much from the malt base. All 2 row would be fine for me depending on the hops used. You need to tell us what you want from the malt and if you ever have head formation/retention problems etc.

I concur- have a plan going in. If you're truly just looking for body or mouthfeel (not defined as a flavor), raise the mash temperature and/or use some White Wheat.

Vienna and Munich are good flavor options that aren't "sweet", but they both have distinct flavors. Too much can cause a distraction to the hops. And whether a small amount provides "flavor complexity" or just a smaller annoyance (like someone at the back of the theater that opens the door and lets light in on the screen just in one corner) is entirely tastebud dependent.

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

It's interesting that these guys say to avoid caramel malts when the benchmark for an American pale ale ie SNPA is practically defined by crystal malt. Bottom line brew what you like to drink if that has 50% crystal malts or 5%.

 

[Stillraining]

This is probably my best option... quit overthinking it and just make beer!

I agree.. Don't know if my well water is just naturally conducive to great head retention or what but I get plenty enough even with my smash'es.

 

[filthyastronaut]

I would go for Vienna if you want to go all base malt. Perhaps Vienna plus oats or wheat to give body for a session ale. Alternatively, go ahead and use crystal, keep it at 5% and you could still use Vienna or MO.

 

[tagz]

I would drop the crystal to 3-5%. IPAs typically work well with no crystal because of the higher OG. For an APA I think a small amount works without being sweet. If you did something like 3% C20 and 3% flaked barley or wheat and did .75 BU:GU it should be pretty balanced with enough body to avoid being thin.

 

[Homercidal]

It's interesting that these guys say to avoid caramel malts when the benchmark for an American pale ale ie SNPA is practically defined by crystal malt. Bottom line brew what you like to drink if that has 50% crystal malts or 5%.

Except the OP wishes to brew a session IPA, which arguably is better fashioned without crystal malts. They tend to be lighter in body with little caramel malt flavors.

I think he's asking for help in brewing what he likes.

 

[JKaranka]

This is probably my best option... quit overthinking it and just make beer!

I'm just advocating being experimental, which in your case means starting from scratch. If you have a very very basic beer you can work your way up by adding stuff but only if you need it. If you go all 2-row you will know whether you are missing something or not.

 

[Jimbodaman]

I have a great 40 IBU american hopped ale with 0% caramel. for 5 gal batch
9lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Victory
.5 lb carapils/dex
.2 lb roasted barley

mash at 153. It has a nice creamy mouthfeel it's the best part of the beer imo.