Distilled water adjustment?

[dcpac]

Hello,
I am want to adjust 20 gallons of distilled water to Ca=110, Mg=18, Na=16, Cl=50, SO4=275. Can someone please tell me if these salt adjustments are correct?

4.3 g Baking soda
7.8 g Calcium chloride
13.8 g Epsom salt
26.6 g Gypsum

Thanks!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Brewing Water Chemistry Calculator - Brewer's Friend matches your numbers.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

You may be making a mistake by introducing alkalinity in an attempt to come close to a 'magical' water profile.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Beware of calcium chloride. It can be anywhere from about 96% pure to below 70% pure, as it continually absorbs moisture from the air, but until it eventually turns into mush it retains an identical appearance. This well known problem in and of itself can make duplicating water profiles an exercise in futility. As I like to say, you can't get where you want to go without first knowing where you are.

 

[dcpac]

Beware of calcium chloride. It can be anywhere from about 96% pure to below 70% pure, as it continually absorbs moisture from the air, but until it eventually turns into mush it retains an identical appearance. This well known problem in and of itself can make duplicating water profiles an exercise in futility. As I like to say, you can't get where you want to go without first knowing where you are.

Thank for that information. I used DI water adjusted as above for an IPA I brewed yesterday. I don't want to use tap (city) water because the source changes making a water report no good. Is also taste bad.
What would you suggest besides taking a blank slate like DI or RO water and adjusting?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I brew from a blank slate so I'm not disparaging the launching of mineralized water from distilled or good RO, which is generally presumed to be close enough to a blank slate for most all practical purposes. What I am disparaging is at least twofold, as in my replies # 3 and 4 above. Lets review them, and add some more quandaries to ponder along the way.

1) Alkalinity is quite often detrimental to the mash, such that when it is present it is generally acidified to the degree that it is diminished or eliminated to where its negative influence can be forgotten. As such, adding alkalinity in the pursuit of duplicating a water profile is not necessarily a desirable or even sensible thing. But that might be the least of our worries, so on to multifaceted issue #2 (which could be broken down into more issues...).

2) I question the magic of duplicating mineralized water as to its true impact upon the final beer. I perceive that many brewers literally believe there is a mystical transcendence or magic of some form to be captured within brewing water, such that if they could only capture and duplicate waters magic they would be by some means transformed into master clone brewers. This I consider this to be a naive point of view of a magnitude similar to the once revered and now totally discredited magic of a mystical chloride to sulfate ratio. One reason for this being that mg/L or ppm measurements of mineral content do not scale to process variability. Let us initially presume only one ion, that of calcium. A book tells us that the magic required for a certain recipes successful cloning calls for 110 ppm of Ca++ (using your example in post #1). So the pursuit is on to discover how to get to this 110 ppm. And we discover several means to hit 110 ppm. But then other minerals are also mentioned as part of the magic, so we begin to juggle until we come to a "best fit" solution such as for the one you present in post #1, and independent confirmation confirms that it is indeed very close to nirvana. But then we realize that at least one of our materials, calcium chloride is an unknown as to its calcium and chloride composition. Unless this unknown becomes known we now realize that it is impossible to achieve a true 110 ppm, let alone juggle it with Cl and all of the other desired magical ion composition ppm's. But that aside, let's assume we have somehow hurdled this major obstacle and achieved the precise ppm's for all minerals within the magic water. Now what? If your reference source for the clone is like most recipes, the recipe only states magical water mineralization ppm's. Lets now look at two brewers, both reading and following the same book, albeit that there is one who mashes in water that represents 60% of the total volume of water and then sparges with the remaining 40%, and another who no-sparge mashes and thus adds 100% of the magical water all at once to the mash. Lets also realize, but for convenience initially again ignore, that multitudes of other mash water to sparge water ratios also exist whereby to make the cloned recipe. After ignoring again we are back to 60% vs. 100% water volume for the mash. The person mashing his equal in all other respects grist within 60% of the magical water, has added only 60% of the minerals to his/her mash vs. the 100% added by the other person. A 40% deficiency in minerals is present for this one from the basis of the other one presuming 100%, and a 40% overage of minerals is presumed for the other way of looking at it from the perspective of 60% being right. Thus the magical quantity of minerals required to transform the grist into spectacular cloned beer has the potential for massive over or under mineralization error in the reaction or interaction of the grist with the minerals for both brewers. And now we remember that a virtual infinity of other ways to mash and sparge with respect to water volumes lie between our two extremes, and also outside of our two extremes (as would be the case for someone who mashes in 50% of the requisite overall water volume and sparges with the other 50%). Yet both brewers following the magical clone recipe are unlikely to think this way, believing only in the books advice that a specified water with magical ppm's of minerals, when duplicated as close as is possible, will lead each brewer to cloning nirvana. How is such nirvana possible for the case of potentially being 40% over or under mineralized (or more)?

 

[dcpac]

Thank you for the detailed information.

How would you have treated 20 gallons of DI water?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thank you for the detailed information.

How would you have treated 20 gallons of DI water?

What type of beer are you brewing? I would likely not add any baking soda or Epsom Salt. I generally add calcium chloride, gypsum, and some iodine free salt.

34 grams of Gypsum and 6.25 grams of iodine free salt would adequately hit your desired calcium, chloride, and sulfate levels. Magnesium is generally bitter and not needed since plenty is present in malts to begin with. Baking soda's alkalinity is avoided and sodium plus chloride are provided by the salt. I like more sodium than most people like. At that sulfate level your beer will be quite dry.

It your CaCl2 is fresh and being opened for the very first time it will likely be 94% to perhaps 96% pure. Most software presumes the dihydrate state, which is close to 75.5% pure.

 

[dcpac]

I brewed this IPA. I have a 50-gallon drum I used to treat 20 gallons at once then used the appropriate amount of water for the mash and sparge water. After doughing in the mash PH was 5.5, the sparge water was 7 so I brought it down to 5.8.

From The Electirc Brewery
ELECTRIC IPA
Size: 12 US gallons (post-boil @ 68F)
Mash Efficiency: 95%
Attenuation: 80%
Original Gravity: 1.065 (style range: 1.056 - 1.075)
Final Gravity: 1.013 (style range: 1.010 - 1.018)
Colour: 8.6 SRM (style range: 6 - 15)
Alcohol: 6.8% ABV (style range: 5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 58 IBU (style range: 40 - 70)
Mash:
21.5 lb Domestic 2-row malt (1.8-2L) (95%)
1.13 lb Crystal malt (50-60L) (5%)

 

[dcpac]

What type of beer are you brewing? I would likely not add any baking soda or Epsom Salt. I generally add calcium chloride, gypsum, and some iodine free salt.

34 grams of Gypsum and 6.25 grams of iodine free salt would adequately hit your desired calcium, chloride, and sulfate levels. Magnesium is generally bitter and not needed since plenty is present in malts to begin with. Baking soda's alkalinity is avoided and sodium plus chloride are provided by the salt. I like more sodium than most people like. At that sulfate level your beer will be quite dry.

It your CaCl2 is fresh and being opened for the very first time it will likely be 94% to perhaps 96% pure. Most software presumes the dihydrate state, which is close to 75.5% pure.

Thanks!
My CaC12 is really old.
I brewed this IPA. I have a 50-gallon drum I used to treat 20 gallons at once then used the appropriate amount of water for the mash and sparge water. After doughing in the mash PH was 5.5, the sparge water was 7 so I brought it down to 5.8.

From The Electirc Brewery
ELECTRIC IPA
Size: 12 US gallons (post-boil @ 68F)
Mash Efficiency: 95%
Attenuation: 80%
Original Gravity: 1.065 (style range: 1.056 - 1.075)
Final Gravity: 1.013 (style range: 1.010 - 1.018)
Colour: 8.6 SRM (style range: 6 - 15)
Alcohol: 6.8% ABV (style range: 5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 58 IBU (style range: 40 - 70)
Mash:
21.5 lb Domestic 2-row malt (1.8-2L) (95%)
1.13 lb Crystal malt (50-60L) (5%)

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Nice! Sounds like everything went quite well and should therefore turn out well. How did you manage a mash efficiency of 95%? I don't sparge, so when I hit 74-75% I'm happy. Did you mineralize as for your mineral weights listed in post #1?

 

[dcpac]

Nice! Sounds like everything went quite well and should therefore turn out well. How did you manage a mash efficiency of 95%? I don't sparge, so when I hit 74-75% I'm happy. Did you mineralize as for your mineral weights listed in post #1?

I wish I hit all those numbers the recipe in my last post was what I was shooting for. I did use the minerals as posted in my last post.
Next time I brew I am just going to add 34 grams of Gypsum and 6.25 grams of iodine-free salt like you said.

Thanks for educating me!