Digitally track your fermentation

[AnOldUR]

HBT is a forum not a search engine. New brewers come here to ask questions. If that bothers you don't answer. The condescending attitude is uncalled for.

 

[g-star]

Hmmm and some of you trolls think I'm full of ****, eh????? That airlocks always bubble???

Sigh. If you can’t understand the difference between “always” and “most of the time” then no one is going to be able to help you. Of course there are going to be exceptions to every rule, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore basic brewing facts and statistics. Like your mystery cases of rampant non-bubbling airlocks, you only focused on the part of my post that validates your pre-conceived notions about homebrewing and the people that post here with different perspectives than your own narrow viewpoint. Then you decided to go the personal attack route, so I’m done arguing with someone so hard-headed.

FYI…just b/c you have the time to make 30,000+ posts to an internet forum doesn’t make you the final word on the subject…you’re just another guy with an opinion.

 

[ayoungrad]

HBT is a forum not a search engine. New brewers come here to ask questions. If that bothers you don't answer. The condescending attitude is uncalled for.

I suppose you are right about this being a forum but there is definitely overlap and searching the forum is just something that I think should be better promoted, for many reasons. It looks like the site tries to promote it... its even mentioned in the rules and regs FAQ on the site.

FWIW, my condescending attitude (which was not intentional) was in reference to the prior poster who seemed to be disappointed by the lack of explanation regarding airlock activity. I don't agree.

 

[mccumath]

Just a quick question? How many of these threads end this way - couple a day/week? I am all about poking fun and having a good time with posts as long as everyone else is having fun, but this thread has gone deep into super ridiculous now. Are my post always helpful and educational? Absolutely not. Maybe they should be... I think that at least 10 different people have answered the same question about fermentation/airlocks. Yes, gets tiring reading the same posts, and yes, with a little research on HBT, you can find answers relatively easily. Granted, it is not a search engine, but still it is easy enough to find answers. Someone even mentioned that there is a sticky. Isn't home brewing all about educating yourself and bettering your processes via reading, researching, and asking questions when you can't find the answer? For me it is, and I have asked my fair share of questions on HBT.

I will work on being more kind and courteous to everyone on HBT, and I apologize for being an ass if anyone took offense to the "camel" pic/my comments.

To the OP - thanks for sending the link to the bubble monitor! As i mentioned before, would be awesome to know how to do that! I am struggling to wire up my DIY stirplate. Off to radio shack after i post this!

 

[Homercidal]

FYI - The search feature on this site is pretty bad. I rarely find what I am looking for using it. Unless I am looking for single, rare word. I usually end up doing a Google search and finding the HBT thread with Google.

That said, the scientific explanation was given many posts back. Bubbles do not indicate fermentation. There are several reason why they might not bubble, or why they might bubble when fermentation is not active. New brewer should learn these reasons and understand how they apply to their hobby. The simple answer of "you should make your fermenters bubble" is poor advice. At best, a bubbling fermenter probably indicates your fermentation is underway.

Beyond the initial "Is my yeast working?" question, I advise using a more proper tool, a hydrometer, to better understand where the gravity of the beer is, rather than making assumptions based on what might or might not be happening with the airlock.

Fermenters that leak are not necessarily a poor fermentation vessel. An airlock on an otherwise perfectly sealed fermenter will not keep air from being sucked back in, if the pressure differential is great enough. Many, many people successfully ferment in leaky buckets, or even leaking carboys, for YEARS without any issues.

As a final disclaimer, I am talking about the primary fermentation, not an extended aging where you certainly would wish to blanket the beer with CO2 and keep air out lest the beer become oxidized. During primary, there is enough positive pressure and CO2 from solution being released to protect the beer from that problem.

 

[passedpawn]

I think the bubble counter is super-nifty. Kudo's to the guy who built it. You guys shouldn't get so worked up over a simple clever gizmo someone made in their free time.

Unfortunately (well, actually it's fortunate I guess), almost all fermentations would produce a nearly identical curve, so it would get boring pretty fast.

 

[osagedr]

FYI - The search feature on this site is pretty bad. I rarely find what I am looking for using it. Unless I am looking for single, rare word. I usually end up doing a Google search and finding the HBT thread with Google.

That's interesting; I have great luck with the search features. Although I have to agree; if I use Google when trying to find an answer it usually ends up with me on HBT! Having said that, I've been directed to great info on some other forums as well. Usually the threads are pretty old on the other sites I find.

 

[pjj2ba]

I don't think a bubble counter is a bad idea at all. It would be a good indicator to tell you; the beer is getting ready to finish, time to get out the hydrometer. Wort ferments a lot faster than many believe. I think with some modifications it could work quite well to give you an idea of the status of your fermentation. I think a airlock redesign would be in order to make sure the bubbles are the same size every time which would improve the accuracy. Leaks can easily be dealt with.

If one wanted to, given the OG, and a predicted FG, one could get a pretty decent value for the amount of CO2 that would be released from a brew. This would vary a little depending on the wort composition (mostly dextrins and the like that are unfermentable). Bubble volume could be measured (assuming a modified airlock) and then the amount of bubbles released up trhough any time point could be used to calculate an approximation the current gravity.

One could get all fancy, and make a CO2 detector, and then one could get a quite accurate value.

Does one need to go through all of this? Of course not. It is overkill? Sure. One could simply just wait, and then measure the gravity with a hydrometer. But then again, why go through all of the trouble to brew beer when I can just go to the store and buy it. Sounds like overkill to me.

Its a hobby. Do it however you want.

 

[passedpawn]

Does one need to go through all of this? Of course not. It is overkill? Sure. ...
Its a hobby. Do it however you want.

Right. In my "Dry your own yeast" thread, Denny Conn asks me, simply, "Why". Well, duh! Because!

If you are a gadget guy (or gal), you're going to do these things. Fish gotta fly, birds gotta swim.

OK, sorry for getting off topic. Now, back to more beating dead camels and dog-piling onto the broken-hearted Rev.

 

[GNBrews]

I don't understand why you guys are arguing about generalities in brewing technique. The OP is talking about a device that would obviously have some important prerequisites in order for it to give you data (i.e. the fermentation vessel is sealed and the airlock is the only way for gas to escape).

 

[andysim]

To quote Styx "too much time on my hands"

I'm working on a counter that measures the number of grains as they pass through through the barley crusher.

This will tell how many grains I use per batch which will help me..............uh..uhh.uhh

I'll figure out how it will help me later.

 

[AnOldUR]

If one wanted to, given the OG, and a predicted FG, one could get a pretty decent value for the amount of CO2 that would be released from a brew. . .

How about a balloon over the top of the carboy?

Given the proper size and thickness, when it blows up and pops, your beer is done. :cross:

 

[andysim]

[QUOTE
Then you could point a webcam at it and even monitor it remotely online.

yeah, great, then instead of walking to the garage to pop the lid on my ferm freezer 8 times a day just to my beers work a little I can stare 18 hours a day at a miniscule change in gravity reading on my laptop screen. This hobby takes up so much time already.

really, the best idea would be to set up an old smart phone to read miniature qr codes printed on the hydrometer as it passes by a small viewing window, which would then be sent to a computer controlled wall mounted scrolling marquis screen displaying the constant gravity readings. I could put it in my living room above the tv.

:rockin:[/QUOTE]

How about a digital hydrometer that sends a wifi signal to your computor which in turn logs the reading into Beersmith? Then Beersmith twitters, facebooks,google +'s, Myspaces (does any use this), texts, emails, youtubes, faxes and sends automatic telephone calls to you and your love ones every 15 minutes on the progress of the fermentation.

 

[passedpawn]

How about a balloon over the top of the carboy?

Given the proper size and thickness, when it blows up and pops, your beer is done. :cross:

I tried that. It inflated enough to stand up, but didn't expand the way I had hoped it would. Give it a try yourself and see if your experience is different.

 

[riromero]

Now you've got me thinking... The OG/FG is just a measurement of the minuscule weight of beer displaced by the hydrometer. So with your sightglass idea, if the top of the tube were closed, then when you open the stopcock the trapped air pressure would reflect the entire weight of beer above the sightglass inlet. That's a considerable amount! As the beer ferments, the weight of the beer column, and resulting air pressure in the sight glass, gets reduced by what, 5% say? Looking at the original bubble counter design, notice that this guy uses a pressure transducer in the airlock. So with his identical hardware, just move that pressure sensor to the top of the sealed sightglass and Bob's Your Uncle. No hydrometer necessary. For the low-tech cavemen, an analog pressure gauge might even be enough? I'll have to do the calculations...

No, my original visions is that when you're ready to take a grav reading, you open the stopcock and the beer from the fermenter then floods into the tub. What you are taking a reading of is of the fermented beer.

Additionally if you did an open inflow from the fermenter into the sightglass in a stopcockless design, you're going to be getting all the movement from the yeast in there. The fluid is all going to be the same.

 

[Exbeerienced]

I monitor CO2 output with a mass flow meter I got for cheap off of Ebay. I added in a calculation that predicts SG also. I think it's a great snapshot of the fermentation. The sugar decrease, alcohol production, and CO2 production go hand in hand, after all. As you watch the graph develop, isn't kind of easy to tell how the fermentation is progressing? Note also the area under the graph represents the total volume of CO2 produced, a direct function of the sugar available.

 

[AnOldUR]

Very nice! Seem to me that a mass flow meter is an expensive bubble counter similar to what the OP is trying to achieve, but your application drives home the value of using it as an effective tool. There's been talk here about other things that can effect the flow of gasses in and out of a fermenter. Temperature, air pressure and such. Have you found these things throw off your interpretation of the data or are they insignificant enough that they can easily be factored in?

 

[runningweird]

I monitor CO2 output with a mass flow meter I got for cheap off of Ebay. I added in a calculation that predicts SG also. I think it's a great snapshot of the fermentation. The sugar decrease, alcohol production, and CO2 production go hand in hand, after all. As you watch the graph develop, isn't kind of easy to tell how the fermentation is progressing? Note also the area under the graph represents the total volume of CO2 produced, a direct function of the sugar available.

WE HAVE A WINNER!

could you post what your setup is? pictures? is the flow meter inline?

 

[LandoLincoln]

Yeah, that's it Revvy. He apparently claimed that bubbles are the only way on earth to explain fermentation. He clearly said "For every bubble an angel gets its wings". He clearly stated that bubble emission is the only way on earth to determine fermentation completion. Yay, your diatribe against anything fun makes this entire post useless. Hell, Tex should delete this post and ban the guy because YOU say his idea is useless!!!

Hear, hear! It's about time we thinned out the herd in this place! DEATH TO THE BUBBLE COUNTERS!

 

[passedpawn]

WE HAVE A WINNER!

could you post what your setup is? pictures? is the flow meter inline?

+1. Pics a must.

 

[weirdboy]

I monitor CO2 output with a mass flow meter I got for cheap off of Ebay. I added in a calculation that predicts SG also. I think it's a great snapshot of the fermentation. The sugar decrease, alcohol production, and CO2 production go hand in hand, after all. As you watch the graph develop, isn't kind of easy to tell how the fermentation is progressing? Note also the area under the graph represents the total volume of CO2 produced, a direct function of the sugar available.

How are you measuring the SG on that chart?

 

[itsme6582]

I am training my dog to count bubbles and bark them out on command. It works great until the mailman shows up.

 

[rico567]

I tried that. It inflated enough to stand up, but didn't expand the way I had hoped it would. Give it a try yourself and see if your experience is different.

You REALLY need to have read some of the thread before you get to this post. Really.

 

[copyright1997]

I am training my dog to count bubbles and bark them out on command. It works great until the mailman shows up.

While that idea sounds good, I don't have a dog and my cat won't cooperate. (But he does come running to my whistle.)

So, instead I decided to build one of these to measure relative density (of which Specific Gravity is an example of): Radiation-based Gauge: Radiation is passed from a source, through the fluid of interest, and into a scintillation detector, or counter. As the fluid density increases, the detected radiation "counts" will decrease. The source is typically the radioactive isotope cesium-137, with a half-life of about 30 years.

Does anyone want to volunteer to test the device for me?

 

[passedpawn]

You REALLY need to have read some of the thread before you get to this post. Really.

I've no idea what you are talking about. Seriously.

 

[bolts]

To quote Styx "too much time on my hands"

I'm working on a counter that measures the number of grains as they pass through through the barley crusher.

This will tell how many grains I use per batch which will help me..............uh..uhh.uhh

I'll figure out how it will help me later.

Obviously you'll be able to determine how barley kernel size (kernels per lb) relates to bubble counts.

 

[Exbeerienced]

I'm short on time, but here's a pic of the mass flow meter that I got off Ebay. There's no airlock; the CO2 just flows through the meter. It puts out 0 to 5 volts, which converts to 0 to 300 cc/min, with this meter. I use a data acquisition starter kit and software from Dataq Instruments (dataq.com). That was only about 40 bucks.

It's a hoot the way the CO2 haters loathe us!

 

[itsme6582]

I'm short on time, but here's a pic of the mass flow meter that I got off Ebay. There's no airlock; the CO2 just flows through the meter. It puts out 0 to 5 volts, which converts to 0 to 300 cc/min, with this meter. I use a data acquisition starter kit and software from Dataq Instruments (dataq.com). That was only about 40 bucks.

It's a hoot the way the CO2 haters loathe us!

I have carbon credits for sale.

 

[malador]

I have carbon credits for sale.

Oh, thats funny.