Digitally track your fermentation
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There are some digital hydrometers but they don't look cheap, and I;m not sure how they work. It would be great if there was simply some sort of probe you culd use like a temp probe.
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
I'll see what I can dig up. There is a thread on here about temperature monitoring on the cheap. They might be in that thread.
A lot of people use an Arduino device to monitor and give the feedback.
I'm using a 1-wire network. You can google and see if you think it's worth the effort. I haven't done anything with it since basically getting it working. Maybe when winter sets in, I'll put it back into my to-do list.
In a nutshell: 1-wire is a thumbstick sized USB device with a telephone jack on the other end. You wire a length of telephone wire to a sensor (They can be a small board, or s single tiny sensor, like I'm using). The software on the computer receives the raw data from the USB adapter and does something with it.
In my case I FTP the files to my webserver, so I can see the current temp, or a chart of the temps for the past day, week, month, or whatever. I'd show a sample, but unfortunately my server's Hard Drive crashed this weekend, so those file are now gone forever.
I originally wanted to do this so I could view and record temperature fluctuations in my fermentations, but I've since gotten fermentation chambers built, so I'm not really as curious as I once was...
I *could* wire several of these sensors to the same USB stick, since it's "network" of sensors. Just spread them out along the sensor wire like christmas tree lights. That's the plan: Have a sensor for the ambient air temp, another for the temp inside the chamber, another for the temp inside the fermenter (sensor is so small it could go inside a thermowell), and maybe a sensor to detect when the compressor is running.)
Is all of this necessary? Absolutely not! :rockin:
storunner13
Well-Known Member
Hmm....something is making me want to make the hydrometer sightglass prototype...
Then again...something is making me want to make just about every other DIY project on here just for the heck of it.
Then again...something is making me want to make just about every other DIY project on here just for the heck of it.
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-TPM-
Well-Known Member
I believe Austin Home brew sell gravity marbles that drop to the bottom when the gravity goes below a certain point.
kcolby
Well-Known Member
ACTUALLY.... If you had 2 "sightglasses" and 2 laser range finders you could measure the distance form the top of the tube to the Beer in an empty tube and from the top of the tube to the top of the hydrometer in the second. This would allow you to compute the gravity to a very precise degree. Just have to calibrate for the distance between marks on the hydrometer.
Science (and LAZORZ!!!) for the win!
Actually thinking about this a little more, the tube could be in the fermenter with this setup. as long as the top and bottom are open the tube is only there to keep the hydrometer in a pre-defined area the second tube could be done away with by mounting the LAZORZ at the same height and measuring from that distance to the beer and fermenter side by side. The only major issue i see potentially is krausen mucking up the tubes, hydrometer and the distance measurements.
Okay... So we have bubble counters, hydrometers, sightglasses, and lasers, Windows gadgets, temp monitors. Need another bucket for all the above goodies! What else can we incorporate into the build?
Got it! Sharks! Especially sharks with laserbeams on their foreheads!
Okay just kidding. I like the sightglass/hydrometer theory, i am sure that someone has something like this built. Lasers might be a bit extreme, but i want to see it done for sure!
Got it! Sharks! Especially sharks with laserbeams on their foreheads!
Okay just kidding. I like the sightglass/hydrometer theory, i am sure that someone has something like this built. Lasers might be a bit extreme, but i want to see it done for sure!
artbrau
Well-Known Member
This may be treating the subject with too much gravity (!) but I wonder about the sight glass idea. Can we assume that the gravity in the sight glass would match the gravity in the larger vessel? Is there a gravity gradient at different parts of the vessel? Maybe the turbulence would eliminate that, but the sight glass would be out of that At a minimum it seems there would be a lag.
PoppinCaps
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think if the liquid were left in the sightglass, there would be a pretty big lag, not to mention the yeast in that tube may ferment at a different rate than the main vessel given temp differences, skewing the reading. It would be easy enough to have a valve to the sightglass to take a reading, and a valve under it to empty into a glass for a taste. Then you might not have the sterility issue.
Of course that idea doesn't use lazorz, but you still line the tube with some sweet LEDs to trick it out.
Of course that idea doesn't use lazorz, but you still line the tube with some sweet LEDs to trick it out.
No, my original visions is that when you're ready to take a grav reading, you open the stopcock and the beer from the fermenter then floods into the tub. What you are taking a reading of is of the fermented beer.
Additionally if you did an open inflow from the fermenter into the sightglass in a stopcockless design, you're going to be getting all the movement from the yeast in there. The fluid is all going to be the same.
windbreaker123
Well-Known Member
There might be a small lag but with the way fermentation turns over the wort it would be small with an open stop cock like revvy described .
I don't think there'd be any lag since the liquids are connected to each other still, the yeasties are moving back and forth doing their job, it's no different that if you are fermenting in an aquatainer or a water jug with a built in handle and wort is in there. It's not like it's a seperate "satellite" fermeter which is it's own closed environment- It's like a tidal pool that is still connected to the ocean, they're still part of the same body of water.
windbreaker123
Well-Known Member
I agree it would be minimal at most.
Look, no one is disputing the fact that the only way to truly monitor a fermentation with certainty is to use a hydrometer. End of story.
That said, airlock activity is in most cases a reliable indicator of what is happening inside your fermentor. As with most basic scientific exercises, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. You site all of these remote possibilities of what airlock activity could/could not mean, while ignoring the most likely reason...the course of fermentation. If you are truly experiencing these oddball issues 50% of the time, I suggest you invest in some new equipment, or learn how to use it properly.
Finally, here's a free tip...condescending, long-winded diatribes aimed at new brewers make for an unfriendly atmosphere around here. There is a way to be helpful and offer advice that is grounded in reality, without coming off like a pontificating know-it-all.
Cheers mate.
runningweird
Well-Known Member
Man everyone gets soooooo touchy. Its all good! Bubble counter=awesome!
Everyone relax, dont worry, and have a home brew, without worrying anymore about bubbles, fermentation, hydrometers, etc.
If anything, there have been some good ideas thrown around for monitoring fermentation continuously during primary!
Everyone relax, dont worry, and have a home brew, without worrying anymore about bubbles, fermentation, hydrometers, etc.
If anything, there have been some good ideas thrown around for monitoring fermentation continuously during primary!
Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn
GNBrews
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A fellow here on HBT was developing something similar, the FerMonitor I believe.
Edit: Here's the thread - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/real-time-fermentation-monitor-85661/
Edit: Here's the thread - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/real-time-fermentation-monitor-85661/
rico567
Well-Known Member
Well.....for me, the horse was never alive to begin with, possibly because I've never experienced a stuck fermentation or any other related problems. Does my airlock bubble? Yes; every time. I check it in the evening after brewday before I go to bed. I've almost always got some activity then; if not, then the next morning. I then forget about it for the month of the extended primary. When I take the lid off and use the thief to extract a sample (I just put the hydrometer in the thief), it's always at an acceptable point to declare FG.
So- my conclusion is: I don't see what the big deal is about tracking fermentation, whether we're using a bubble-counting device, taking periodic hydrometer readings, or using a Magic 8-Ball™. OTOH, as I alluded to earlier, maybe I just haven't had certain problems surface yet, and so it isn't an issue to me.
So- my conclusion is: I don't see what the big deal is about tracking fermentation, whether we're using a bubble-counting device, taking periodic hydrometer readings, or using a Magic 8-Ball™. OTOH, as I alluded to earlier, maybe I just haven't had certain problems surface yet, and so it isn't an issue to me.
statseeker
Well-Known Member
All these pics of guys kicking dead horses all look like camels to me. Why would someone kick a dead camel? 
I too think there are WAY too many threads about airlocks not bubbling 1 day after brew day and new brewers being concerned about it. If you say as some do here that an air lock bubbling is a "likely" or "pretty likely" or even somewhat likely indicator that fermentation is happening, then you're enabling the problem to keep going. There's a freaking sticky at the top of the beginners section that says fermentation can take up to 3 days to show activity or something. There are still 10 threads a week about fermentation not starting right away or airlock activity ceased after 3 days or people saying "well the airlock was bubbling once every second, now it's only bubbling once every minute. Should I be worried?" There should be a second sticky that says "Airlocks dont indicate fermentation" or "Dont trust your airlock too much."
All these aribitrary indicators of fermentation really indicate only that there is a pressure change in the fermenter. It doesnt tell you why. The only thing that indicates that sugar is being turned into alcohol is that thing that measures the resistance of the liquid, you know, a hydrometer.
I think Revvy is sick of it because of the sheer number of posts like the ones I outlined. You think that maybe a new guy is actually having a problem with his brew, maybe. But it's just an anxious guy being too ready to add more yeast or call the fermentation done or counting the bubbles saying it's happening or not. You have to respond the same way every time. Dont worry about it, it'll have krausen by morning or that airlocks arent a good indicator of fermentation or take a gravity reading in the morning. A simple search would yield that the worried guy's fermentation will fire off just like 98% of the guys in the threads he sees after he searches. But endless threads still end up here. I think that's the main reason that the digital fermentation tracker isnt a good idea. It just gives anxious guys a reason to be more anxious about airlocks.
I too think there are WAY too many threads about airlocks not bubbling 1 day after brew day and new brewers being concerned about it. If you say as some do here that an air lock bubbling is a "likely" or "pretty likely" or even somewhat likely indicator that fermentation is happening, then you're enabling the problem to keep going. There's a freaking sticky at the top of the beginners section that says fermentation can take up to 3 days to show activity or something. There are still 10 threads a week about fermentation not starting right away or airlock activity ceased after 3 days or people saying "well the airlock was bubbling once every second, now it's only bubbling once every minute. Should I be worried?" There should be a second sticky that says "Airlocks dont indicate fermentation" or "Dont trust your airlock too much."
All these aribitrary indicators of fermentation really indicate only that there is a pressure change in the fermenter. It doesnt tell you why. The only thing that indicates that sugar is being turned into alcohol is that thing that measures the resistance of the liquid, you know, a hydrometer.
I think Revvy is sick of it because of the sheer number of posts like the ones I outlined. You think that maybe a new guy is actually having a problem with his brew, maybe. But it's just an anxious guy being too ready to add more yeast or call the fermentation done or counting the bubbles saying it's happening or not. You have to respond the same way every time. Dont worry about it, it'll have krausen by morning or that airlocks arent a good indicator of fermentation or take a gravity reading in the morning. A simple search would yield that the worried guy's fermentation will fire off just like 98% of the guys in the threads he sees after he searches. But endless threads still end up here. I think that's the main reason that the digital fermentation tracker isnt a good idea. It just gives anxious guys a reason to be more anxious about airlocks.
Hmmm and some of you trolls think I'm full of ****, eh????? That airlocks always bubble???
No airlock activity but MASSIVE krausen
Maybe if you actually spent time actually helping the new brewers and spent time in the beginner's forums, instead of being a troll, you would see that DAILY there are threads just like this on here.
Cheers Mate!!!!
wonderbread23
Well-Known Member
This. CO2 is a direct by-product of fermentation. If you have fermentation, you have CO2. The only way it won't be bubbling is if you don't have a good seal on your vessel (which is another good reason to look at the airlock; it'll help you know when you need to better seal your vessel).
I have never had a leaky fermenter in my 80+ batches and watching the airlock is an extremely valuable resource for me. I use it all the time to know when things are slowing down and when to begin ramping temps on fermenters etc. Telling people to not watch the airlock is pandering to the lowest denominator. Throwing out a useful tool simply because the information it provides might be misinterpreted doesn't make sense to me. Instead of us slamming new brewers for doing this, how about we let them know the variables involved, give them an understanding of what is happening, and let them figure out whether they should be watching it or not?
stratslinger
Well-Known Member
Just one more viewpoint: if you assume bubblers always bubble during fermentation, what happens when you get a stuck fermentation? Those bubbles cease, you bottle, you create 2 cases of potential bottle bombs.
While some folks may be heavier handed with the argument than others, I think it's misleading to newbies at best, and somewhat dangerous at worst, to perpetuate the idea that bubbles or the rate of bubbling necessarily indicate anything about fermentation.
While some folks may be heavier handed with the argument than others, I think it's misleading to newbies at best, and somewhat dangerous at worst, to perpetuate the idea that bubbles or the rate of bubbling necessarily indicate anything about fermentation.
rico567
Well-Known Member
{NB: I am merely thinking by typing in writing this post, it's not personal or aimed at anyone who has contributed to this thread......so if you feel you might be offended by mere speculation on my part, please quit reading NOW.}
Since this thread is moving further into the psychology of this pastime, after reading "statseeker"'s post I thought of our cultural context. In the U.S., we are conditioned to instant gratification, and the more instant the better, preferably yesterday, and for everything. We are immersed in this by the media and all of our "pushbutton" technology to the point where immediate results are a cultural assumption, it's somehow a virtue to be "busy" and be constantly moving on to the next thing, and the correct results move somewhere further down on our list of priorities. An outcome is more important than a thorough plan, it's all about "-getting to the bottom line."
I hasten to add that I don't claim that I'm any more immune to this syndrome than any other 21st century person in the developed world......but we can learn. I've been brewing for four years, and I find that the progress of -most- of my fermentations is quite predictable. I adopted extended primary as my standard procedure (except for big beers or others requiring extended bulk aging) only partly because it simplified the brewing process and made for less work. In effect, It eliminated all concern about the progress of the fermentation, concern that was real enough when I was doing the standard 1-2-4 week brewing. Any variable that might have resulted in the beer not having fermented out in a week was completely eliminated by leaving it in primary for 3-4 weeks. I reiterate that I make no claim that I am more careful or skillful in my brewing than the next person.
This calls to mind the line by Homer Simpson when told he'd have to wait a week to get a gun- "But I'm mad now!" About a year after my start in brewing, I began to realize that something needed to be done to eliminate the problem of constantly waiting on beer to be done. After reading enough threads on HBT, I decided that the easiest solution, although it required some work and expense, was to just increase the extent of my pipeline so that it didn't matter how long it took for something to be done. I also understand that this method is of little use when one wants a special beer on short notice.
I state again that what I have written here reflects only my own experience and the changes that have taken place in my brewing.....some of which may not even be possible or applicable to a given person's situation.
Since this thread is moving further into the psychology of this pastime, after reading "statseeker"'s post I thought of our cultural context. In the U.S., we are conditioned to instant gratification, and the more instant the better, preferably yesterday, and for everything. We are immersed in this by the media and all of our "pushbutton" technology to the point where immediate results are a cultural assumption, it's somehow a virtue to be "busy" and be constantly moving on to the next thing, and the correct results move somewhere further down on our list of priorities. An outcome is more important than a thorough plan, it's all about "-getting to the bottom line."
I hasten to add that I don't claim that I'm any more immune to this syndrome than any other 21st century person in the developed world......but we can learn. I've been brewing for four years, and I find that the progress of -most- of my fermentations is quite predictable. I adopted extended primary as my standard procedure (except for big beers or others requiring extended bulk aging) only partly because it simplified the brewing process and made for less work. In effect, It eliminated all concern about the progress of the fermentation, concern that was real enough when I was doing the standard 1-2-4 week brewing. Any variable that might have resulted in the beer not having fermented out in a week was completely eliminated by leaving it in primary for 3-4 weeks. I reiterate that I make no claim that I am more careful or skillful in my brewing than the next person.
This calls to mind the line by Homer Simpson when told he'd have to wait a week to get a gun- "But I'm mad now!" About a year after my start in brewing, I began to realize that something needed to be done to eliminate the problem of constantly waiting on beer to be done. After reading enough threads on HBT, I decided that the easiest solution, although it required some work and expense, was to just increase the extent of my pipeline so that it didn't matter how long it took for something to be done. I also understand that this method is of little use when one wants a special beer on short notice.
I state again that what I have written here reflects only my own experience and the changes that have taken place in my brewing.....some of which may not even be possible or applicable to a given person's situation.
There are explanations about airlock activity all over this site. So if new brewers want an understanding of what is going on, all they have to do is read. I think that the issue is that new brewers post new threads about airlock activity without searching the forum and reading. It is certainly not that other people on here have not tried to teach "an understanding of what is happening" - even on this thread.
Granted, it can sometimes be difficult to find an exact answer to a question by searching HBT. And I am also likely guilty of posting new threads that have already been answered elsewhere. But questions about airlock activity are everywhere on HBT. And the answers (and great explanations) are very easy to find.
