different styles in a kegerator

[sputnam]

I currently have a two tap system. I know that different styles take different volumes of C02 so I will be getting a dual body regulator soon. I have concerns with three styles in particular...stouts, saisons, and tripels.

I'm not interested in stouts enough to get a nitro set-up; how are they kegged on C02?

Saisons and tripels are basically the same c02 volumes...do they keg well? I currently have 6' lines; would I need to change to 10' on the volume increase?

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

I currently have a two tap system. I know that different styles take different volumes of C02 so I will be getting a dual body regulator soon. I have concerns with three styles in particular...stouts, saisons, and tripels.

I'm not interested in stouts enough to get a nitro set-up; how are they kegged on C02?

Saisons and tripels are basically the same c02 volumes...do they keg well? I currently have 6' lines; would I need to change to 10' on the volume increase?

Two schools of thought here…

Most ales and lagers pour fine at a single vCo2 (Volume of Co2) across the board. One rarely complains or really finds an overwhelming difference between 2.3 vCo2 and 2.8 vCo2. How FAST one force carbs DOES create a definitive difference in taste/mouthfeel of the finished beer. Beers that are shaken, beaten into submission and carbed using the “rocking” or "shaking" method will inherently brandish the typical carbonic bite due to the carbonic acid that is formed under these “stressful” processes. Smooth, tasty, round beers come from time and patience as the solution (beer) absorbs the Co2 slowly. Don’t rush this process… You WILL note the difference.

To answer your questions…

Some ales / lagers will carb up with varied rates of absorption due to final gravity and overall alcohol content. Higher alcohol solutions will carb slower and pour fine from 6’ lines at typical serving pressures (10-12psi). Super-full-bodied ales / lagers with average to lower alcohol contents will carb fine but may pour excessively foamy at higher serving pressures or vCo2. The trick with any beer is carbonating to a vCo2 that is palatable to you and that pours sufficiently in your system. You can control these variables with temperature, vCo2, and serving pressure but it all comes down to taste and what YOU prefer. There is a plethora of information out there on the interwebs on “balancing your system.”

Specific to your Stout question.. They keg just fine. I would however think about carbonating to a lower vCo2 (around 1.5 to 2.0) to get a smoother pour/mouthfeel since you are upgrading to a dual pressure regulator but that’s just me.

Saisons and Tripels are roughly the same vCo2 however the myriad of recipes out there or that you create may have different alcohol content and varying body; so, that will play on how the beers pour but for as to “how they keg” I have kegged several batches of both and they keg VERY well… Just as well as any other beer. The need for going from 6’ lines to 10’ (or preferably 12’-15’) lines will be mostly dictated by alcohol content and body…

• High Alcohol + Low Body = Good pour at any temp / vCo2
• High Alcohol + Big Body = Average pour at cooler temps (Below 42F) / Average vCo2
• Average Alcohol + Low Body = Good pour at any temp / vCo2
• Average Alcohol + Big Body = Good pour at cooler temps (Below 40F) / Average to higher vCo2

There are many guides, charts, etc.. out on the interwebs regarding time, temp, vCo2, system balancing and getting the best pour you can from your system. After all is said and done however, if YOU like what’s coming out of the faucet… You’re golden! Or amber, or brown....

Cheers,

-JM

 

[Yooper]

I have six kegs in my kegerator, with three faucets. I keep them all at 12 psi (approx 2.4 volumes) and I like that. The only thing I ever change is soda, as that requires a LOT more carbonation. For that, I use 30 psi and 25' of beer line to balance. I've never noticed a difference in carbing requirements based on ABV or anything- the law of physics apply and forcing co2 into solution will happen. In order to get perfect pours, in general more resistance is a good thing so I'd start with 10-12' of line for most applications in a home kegerator.


I don't drink many saisons or more highly carbonated styles, but I even pour my English ales, my American IPAs, and my stouts out of the kegerator I have without changing pressures. I don't think many people need to have different carb levels, but you certainly can if you want to!

 

[sputnam]

great info...thanks guys

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

I've never noticed a difference in carbing requirements based on ABV or anything- the law of physics apply and forcing co2 into solution will happen. In order to get perfect pours, in general more resistance is a good thing so I'd start with 10-12' of line for most applications in a home kegerator.

Oh yes Ma'am... I don't want to encroach on your wisdom; I certainly value your knowledge greatly! You are definitely a resident bad-ass! Though classical mechanics are at play, fluid dynamics / fluid mechanics play more specifically into this equation and are an inescapable variable when dealing with the systems and processes we’re discussing. Not to get all “science-y” and tout “look what I can do” – Alcohol influences not only absorption / desorption rates but influences fluid mechanics in that Co2 remains longer in a higher alcohol solution. Relating to body, though not the same principal of mechanics involved, the viscosity (or body) does influence absorption / desorption as well…. If explained in beer terms:

High ABV beer (10% +/- 1% ABV) with a light body will pour at any temp in any degree of resistive system at practically the same desorption rate that a high ABV beer will pour with a full body. i.e. High ABV beers regardless of body (viscosity) typically pour with little to no head though “feel” carbonated when consumed.

On the other hand, low ABV beer with a medium to full body (Higher viscosity) under average “beery” conditions will typically pour with excessive foam when resistive influence is low. That’s why longer lines obviously help with this particular fluid composition. It is actually the alcohol that plays the biggest role in absorption / desorption rates in our particular situation… Beer draft systems. Yes; temp, composition, line length (resistive degree) all play into the equation but alcohol is the one “chemical” factor that influences absorption / desorption rates the most.

Now that I’ve probably pissed Yoop off first thing in the morning, please accept this digital cup of coffee and this nice pint to enjoy at day's end.

Prost!

-JM

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

If anyone really cares... You can research the "Marangoni effect" for further details regarding termperature gradients (surface tension), or thermo-capillary convection as related to alcohol. First discovered in the late 1800s in wine. It'll at least put you in the ball park for further study.

Yeah, I'm a nerd. :rockin:

-JM

 

[Yooper]

Oh yes Ma'am... I don't want to encroach on your wisdom; I certainly value your knowledge greatly! You are definitely a resident bad-ass! Though classical mechanics are at play, fluid dynamics / fluid mechanics play more specifically into this equation and are an inescapable variable when dealing with the systems and processes we’re discussing. Not to get all “science-y” and tout “look what I can do” – Alcohol influences not only absorption / desorption rates but influences fluid mechanics in that Co2 remains longer in a higher alcohol solution. Relating to body, though not the same principal of mechanics involved, the viscosity (or body) does influence absorption / desorption as well…. If explained in beer terms:

High ABV beer (10% +/- 1% ABV) with a light body will pour at any temp in any degree of resistive system at practically the same desorption rate that a high ABV beer will pour with a full body. i.e. High ABV beers regardless of body (viscosity) typically pour with little to no head though “feel” carbonated when consumed.

On the other hand, low ABV beer with a medium to full body (Higher viscosity) under average “beery” conditions will typically pour with excessive foam when resistive influence is low. That’s why longer lines obviously help with this particular fluid composition. It is actually the alcohol that plays the biggest role in absorption / desorption rates in our particular situation… Beer draft systems. Yes; temp, composition, line length (resistive degree) all play into the equation but alcohol is the one “chemical” factor that influences absorption / desorption rates the most.

Now that I’ve probably pissed Yoop off first thing in the morning, please accept this digital cup of coffee and this nice pint to enjoy at day's end.

Prost!

-JM

Of course, you're right. I love physics!

But I am talking from a practical standpoint. In a kegerator at 40 degrees, at 12 psi, and dispensing through 10-12' lines, the beers will pour and carb up about the same as far as noticing any difference to the kegerator owner. The majority of the qualities of the beer, like body and head retention, will be due to the ingredients and mash specifics and not so much the ABV. If the beer seems "thin", often reducing the volume of c02 via purging the keg and carbing a bit lower will fix that symptom.

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

Of course, you're right. I love physics!

But I am talking from a practical standpoint. In a kegerator at 40 degrees, at 12 psi, and dispensing through 10-12' lines, the beers will pour and carb up about the same as far as noticing any difference to the kegerator owner. The majority of the qualities of the beer, like body and head retention, will be due to the ingredients and mash specifics and not so much the ABV. If the beer seems "thin", often reducing the volume of c02 via purging the keg and carbing a bit lower will fix that symptom.

Absolutely... It is beer after all.. Trying not to complicate an already fairly straight-forward animal. Problem "A" requires solution "B" / if you get "this" do "that" approach is much better. I'm just not too good at articulating complicated processes in a less than complicated manner. I guess that's why I never made a good teacher! Ha! Thanks Yooper! You are a gem among the mountain...

Cheers,

-JM