Different force carb results for different beers?

[macaronijones]

So i'm still new to kegging, and after my first attempt at a quick force-carbonation i posted on here about how easy it was and how perfectly the beer was carbonated as quickly as 12 hours later. Well, beginner's luck I suppose because since then I've had some issues.

After watching some youtube videos and reading on here my method was to rack my crash-cooled Blue Moon clone into the keg, purge with C02, set to 30 PSI and shake for 2-3 minutes. I then left it connected still at 30 for a couple of hours (2-3). Then i removed the gas line, released the pressure thru the valve, set to serving pressure and let it sit for a couple more hours. Later that same day I pulled a bunch of pints and they were perfect. So perfect my friends and I kicked the keg within a few days.

Well, since then I've tried the exact same method on an oatmeal stout and a centennial blonde ale, with very different results. The oatmeal stout was still completely flat after the initial day, and didn't really carb up until a week later. It was as if the shaking at 30 did nothing and I did set-and-forget for a week.

On the other hand, the centennial blonde ale was pure foam after this same procedure....

Should there be this much variance when doing (what i thought) to be the same procedure, but with different beers? They were all the same temperature, same volume, same amount of shaking at same PSI, more or less the same length of time from racking into keg to first pour attempt...

I know the more foolproof method would be set and forget, but clearly it's possible to do it quicker and i'd like to be able to recreate the results of my first attempt reliably. Confused...

 

[macaronijones]

I should add that for the centennial blonde ale (which I just did today), underneath all the foam the beer itself is still clearly flat.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I've never shaken. 30 PSI for 48 hours, purge and set at 12 and it's always perfect.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

There's a lot more to beer foam or "head" than just shoving co2 into suspension. Different beers react differently so the regimen that works for one beer will not necessarily work for another. People have been granted PHDs in the science of beer foam. See the link below for more information than you probably wanted. https://beerandbrewing.com/VUjzcygAABcrSWmh/article/the-physics-of-foam

I usually don't do anything special to carb my beer. I have a 2 tap kegerator with space and gas outlets for 3 kegs. I just put a full keg into the "on deck" slot, apply serving pressure of about 12PSI and leave it for a month. Although, I do drink slowly. It takes me quite a while to finish 5 gallons of beer.

 

[macaronijones]

There's a lot more to beer foam or "head" than just shoving co2 into suspension. Different beers react differently so the regimen that works for one beer will not necessarily work for another. People have been granted PHDs in the science of beer foam. See the link below for more information than you probably wanted. https://beerandbrewing.com/VUjzcygAABcrSWmh/article/the-physics-of-foam

I usually don't do anything special to carb my beer. I have a 2 tap kegerator with space and gas outlets for 3 kegs. I just put a full keg into the "on deck" slot, apply serving pressure of about 12PSI and leave it for a month. Although, I do drink slowly. It takes me quite a while to finish 5 gallons of beer.

Interesting. I suppose if "set and forget" at 12 psi works for all your beers given enough time, I'm interested in a burst carb method that works reasonably well for most beers, as the poster above suggests with his method of 30 psi for 48 hrs. I'll try that next time.

As an update, pulling a glass today is still 75% foam, but the beer underneath tastes well carbonated. Will this eventually correct itself on its own or am i going to need to do some sort of fix for the excessive head?

 

[jerbrew]

Interesting. I suppose if "set and forget" at 12 psi works for all your beers given enough time, I'm interested in a burst carb method that works reasonably well for most beers, as the poster above suggests with his method of 30 psi for 48 hrs. I'll try that next time.

As an update, pulling a glass today is still 75% foam, but the beer underneath tastes well carbonated. Will this eventually correct itself on its own or am i going to need to do some sort of fix for the excessive head?

1) 30 psi for 48 hours may be too much for that beer. (co2 will dissolve into differnt beers at different rates)

2) how long are your beer lines? I (and many others i've read posts from) have had great results (even with a picnic tap) with 10' or more of line and others have had issues trying to cut it "short".

 

[Gameface]

Is it possible that specific gravity and/or alcohol concentration has a significant impact on how readily CO2 dissolves into beer?

 

[macaronijones]

1) 30 psi for 48 hours may be too much for that beer. (co2 will dissolve into differnt beers at different rates)

2) how long are your beer lines? I (and many others i've read posts from) have had great results (even with a picnic tap) with 10' or more of line and others have had issues trying to cut it "short".

Mine are five foot lines. I bought my kegging setup before I read that having 10 foot lines solves many a problem. What gets me is the first beer i kegged was as perfect as I could ask for like 10 hours later... so I know it can be done. It's just confusing that with the same exact method I've pulled a goldilocks and had one beer be totally flat, one totally foam, and one jussst right.

 

[macaronijones]

Is it possible that specific gravity and/or alcohol concentration has a significant impact on how readily CO2 dissolves into beer?

It sounds like there's a lot that goes into it, and someone more knowledgeable can chime in on that, but i would point out the three beers i've kegged so far with far different results have each been between 4.2 - 5.0 % ABV, so not a big difference.

 

[doug293cz]

I used to do process engineering early in my career. Carbonation by shaking at higher than serving pressure is basically an uncontrollable process. It is the most likely method to give you widely variable results. The two accelerated carbing methods that are less likely to cause over carbing are:

1. 30 psi on cold beer for 36 - 48 hrs, followed by venting and setting to serving pressure.
2. Shaking (or other agitation) at serving pressure.

The first method can cause overcarbing if you leave it at high pressure too long, but it is reasonably predictable. The second cannot cause over carbing , but may cause under carbing with insufficient agitation/time.

The most reliable method, which can never cause over carbing, is set and forget.

Brew on

 

[WarmGas]

Not to muddy the waters or the beer, for that matter, I have found 40 psi for 24 hours, purge and set at serving pressure to work for all my IPAs and even stouts. Now I have a Raging Red Irish Ale kegged and despite using that exact regimen it pours perfectly with a nice head but the beer itself is.....a little flat.

I am trying another 12 hours at 20 psi to try and goose her up a bit but I also see a difference in "carbability" depending on the type of beer.

 

[macaronijones]

I used to do process engineering early in my career. Carbonation by shaking at higher than serving pressure is basically an uncontrollable process. It is the most likely method to give you widely variable results. The two accelerated carbing methods that are less likely to cause over carbing are:

1. 30 psi on cold beer for 36 - 48 hrs, followed by venting and setting to serving pressure.
2. Shaking (or other agitation) at serving pressure.

The first method can cause overcarbing if you leave it at high pressure too long, but it is reasonably predictable. The second cannot cause over carbing , but may cause under carbing with insufficient agitation/time.

The most reliable method, which can never cause over carbing, is set and forget.

Brew on

Thanks for this response, that makes a lot of sense to me. Just out of curiosity, in your experience how much shaking does the second method entail?

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks for this response, that makes a lot of sense to me. Just out of curiosity, in your experience how much shaking does the second method entail?

I'm too old and lazy to try to shake a 50 lb keg of beer, so don't know how much shaking is required. I use the timed high pressure method.

Brew on

 

[macaronijones]

Haha i see, I was thinking of just putting it on the ground on its side and rolling it back and forth with my foot while I sit on the couch and watch tv.

 

[doug293cz]

Haha i see, I was thinking of just putting it on the ground on its side and rolling it back and forth with my foot while I sit on the couch and watch tv.

The less vigorous the agitation, the longer it will take. That's all I got.

Brew on