Difference in steeping and mashing?

[Redpappy]

So I was browsing around and seen a post from Olie, and it sparked a question. Right now I do just extract brewing, but I am looking into doing a 1 gal AG. Now as I’m looking at some receipes I notice that when you mash you put all of your grains, base and specialty in and mash for 60 min. On an extract, you just steep your Specialty for 20-30 min. So the question is, do you loose/gain anything by mashing the specialty grains for an hour,? Or is it just to simplify the process ( do it all at once so you don’t have to do it a second time kind of thing.) If there is a gain to the mash, any suggestions on why we just steep the grains on Extract?

As I’m looking to do 1 gal, Any suggestions on size of cooler to mash in. I am looking at the 2 gal and the 5 gal coolers, i am leaning forwards the 2 gal, but not sure if it will be big enough. With the 5 gal, with all that head space I’m not sure if it will hold the heat? Plus side to the 5 gal is that I can repurpose it to my HLT when I do make the plunge to do 5 AG.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

So I was browsing around and seen a post from Olie, and it sparked a question. Right now I do just extract brewing, but I am looking into doing a 1 gal AG. Now as I’m looking at some receipes I notice that when you mash you put all of your grains, base and specialty in and mash for 60 min. On an extract, you just steep your Specialty for 20-30 min. So the question is, do you loose/gain anything by mashing the specialty grains for an hour,? Or is it just to simplify the process ( do it all at once so you don’t have to do it a second time kind of thing.) If there is a gain to the mash, any suggestions on why we just steep the grains on Extract?

As I’m looking to do 1 gal, Any suggestions on size of cooler to mash in. I am looking at the 2 gal and the 5 gal coolers, i am leaning forwards the 2 gal, but not sure if it will be big enough. With the 5 gal, with all that head space I’m not sure if it will hold the heat? Plus side to the 5 gal is that I can repurpose it to my HLT when I do make the plunge to do 5 AG.

You mainly just steep grains because you are not counting on them for the bulk of your fermentable sugars, which come from the extract instead.
Mashing is required to produce the sugars from regular starchy grains (crystal malts have already been converted to sugar, you just need to steep it out).

Instead of buying a cooler, buy a package of 5-gallon paint strainer bags from your local DIY store and do the mash in those, in your boiling pot.
Very cheap solution and perfect for those small batches. You should be able to mash up to maybe 7lbs of grain this way...plenty for 1-3 gallon batches, though some bigger beers might be a stretch.
Once mashed in, throw the pot into your oven to help it stay warm, maybe hitting it with some low heat every now and then.
Then just pull out the bag of grain, let the wort strain into your pot, and start your boil.
There is lots of info about this "brew in a bag" method here on HBT.

 

[Calder]

Steeping just extracts flavors and some unfermentable sugars. All you really need to do is dissolve the sugars that are already on the grains into the water. Temperature control is not necessary.

Mashing converts starches to sugars; mostly fermentable sugars. Control of temperature is important as it determines how fermentable the sugars are.

Examples:

2-Row, Pale Malt, and other base grains have no sugars and need to be mashed to convert starches to sugars. These grains carry the enzymes required to process the starches to sugars. For a rough guide, 1 lb in 1.5 quarts of water held at 150 F can yield somewhere between 25 and 30 gravity points. You should sparge (or rinse) the grains after mashing to maximize the sugars collected. For reference 1 lb of LME has 36 points, and 1 lb of DME has 45 points.

Crystal has some converted sugars and some starches, but it doesn't have the enzymes to convert the starches. If you steep a lb of crystal in ~160 F water you will get approximately 15 points of mostly unfermentable sugars, and the flavor from the crystal. If you added that same lb of crystal to some base malt and mashed it, it would give up an additional 10 to 15 points in fermentable sugars in addition to 15 unfermentable points and flavors.

Dark roasted grains are similar to crystal in that they can be steeped to get a small amount of sugars and flavoring, but if mashed will provide more sugars.

Some specialty malts such as biscuit, victory, honey malts need to be mashed. Some of these need base malts added to them as they have Little to no enzymes of their own.

 

[Redpappy]

Steeping just extracts flavors and some unfermentable sugars. All you really need to do is dissolve the sugars that are already on the grains into the water. Temperature control is not necessary.

Mashing converts starches to sugars; mostly fermentable sugars. Control of temperature is important as it determines how fermentable the sugars are.

Examples:

2-Row, Pale Malt, and other base grains have no sugars and need to be mashed to convert starches to sugars. These grains carry the enzymes required to process the starches to sugars. For a rough guide, 1 lb in 1.5 quarts of water held at 150 F can yield somewhere between 25 and 30 gravity points. You should sparge (or rinse) the grains after mashing to maximize the sugars collected. For reference 1 lb of LME has 36 points, and 1 lb of DME has 45 points.

Crystal has some converted sugars and some starches, but it doesn't have the enzymes to convert the starches. If you steep a lb of crystal in ~160 F water you will get approximately 15 points of mostly unfermentable sugars, and the flavor from the crystal. If you added that same lb of crystal to some base malt and mashed it, it would give up an additional 10 to 15 points in fermentable sugars in addition to 15 unfermentable points and flavors.

Dark roasted grains are similar to crystal in that they can be steeped to get a small amount of sugars and flavoring, but if mashed will provide more sugars.

Some specialty malts such as biscuit, victory, honey malts need to be mashed. Some of these need base malts added to them as they have Little to no enzymes of their own.

Thank you for the explanation with examples, it helps out a lot and I appreciate it.

You mainly just steep grains because you are not counting on them for the bulk of your fermentable sugars, which come from the extract instead.
Mashing is required to produce the sugars from regular starchy grains (crystal malts have already been converted to sugar, you just need to steep it out).

Instead of buying a cooler, buy a package of 5-gallon paint strainer bags from your local DIY store and do the mash in those, in your boiling pot.
Very cheap solution and perfect for those small batches. You should be able to mash up to maybe 7lbs of grain this way...plenty for 1-3 gallon batches, though some bigger beers might be a stretch.
Once mashed in, throw the pot into your oven to help it stay warm, maybe hitting it with some low heat every now and then.
Then just pull out the bag of grain, let the wort strain into your pot, and start your boil.
There is lots of info about this "brew in a bag" method here on HBT.

I have thought about doing BIAB for 1 gal. I can’t remember who it was, but they brought up using paint strainer bags as well. I was thinking of mash tun just to see if it would be worth ( if I enjoy it) going AG by using a mash. I know they are similar, but wanting to try both out to see which way I want to go.

 

[RM-MN]

Thank you for the explanation with examples, it helps out a lot and I appreciate it.


I have thought about doing BIAB for 1 gal. I can’t remember who it was, but they brought up using paint strainer bags as well. I was thinking of mash tun just to see if it would be worth ( if I enjoy it) going AG by using a mash. I know they are similar, but wanting to try both out to see which way I want to go.

Be careful of going down that rabbit hole. It tends to be a one way hole and once you start down you can't back out. However, the other side of that rabbit hole is pretty awesome.

 

[Griffin495]

For one gallon batches, just do BIAB. Paint strainer bag, pre-heat your oven to the lowest setting (mine is 170F), add grains to the bag, stir good and throw in the oven for an hour. Some stir and retake temps every 15 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever, but you will lose some heat. This is the method I use for 1 gallon batches and 2.5 gallon batches and in fact just cranked out 2.5 gallons of stout on Sunday and 2.5 gallons of ESB yesterday.

And from personal experience, this works much better than a 5 gallon round beverage cooler. No idea about a 2 gallon one.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

For one gallon batches, just do BIAB. Paint strainer bag, pre-heat your oven to the lowest setting (mine is 170F), add grains to the bag, stir good and throw in the oven for an hour. Some stir and retake temps every 15 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever, but you will lose some heat. This is the method I use for 1 gallon batches and 2.5 gallon batches and in fact just cranked out 2.5 gallons of stout on Sunday and 2.5 gallons of ESB yesterday.

And from personal experience, this works much better than a 5 gallon round beverage cooler. No idea about a 2 gallon one.

Agreed - with the paint strainer bag method, you ARE doing an all grain mash with very little investment. I did quite a few 2.5 gallon batches this way before buying a couple 3-gallon kegs. At that point there were some beers that I wanted to make where the paint strainer bag and my pot did not have enough room for all the mash, so I built a cooler MLT, otherwise I'd still be using the bags.
I would also do a sparge step where I would move the grain bag into another pot of appropriately heated water, let it sit, then add that to the boil pot as well. I got decent efficiency from this process.

Per Griffin's instructions - pre-heat your oven, but don't keep it lit at 170 during that mash. You just want enough heat in there to keep your mash at your initial mash temp since your pot isn't going to maintain its heat by itself.

Good Luck!

 

[C-Rider]

I do 2 gal batches fermenting in HD 2 gal paint buckets. I mashed w/the paint bags in a 5 gal cooler, never sparged. Boiled in a 5 gallon pot and usually get about 17 bottles. My eff is about 78%

 

[auburntsts]

I do just over 1 gal batches (enough for a 12 pack--1.125 gal), full volume mashes in a 4 gal pot. Started out using a 5 gal paint strainer but just recently bought one of Wilser's BIAB bags (significant difference in the mesh) and plan to brew a batch of Yooper's Oatmeal Stout tonight and try out the new bag -- pretty excited about it actually (not only for the bag but this will be my first Stout). Anyway, I mash on the stove. After I reach my strike temp, I remove the pot from the burner (it's a glass top range), dough in, and then wrap a towel around the pot. No problems staying at my target mash temp.

 

[Griffin495]

auburntsts Wilser's bags are much better than the paint strainer bags. I've got one to do 5 gallon batches and a second one to do small batches. You are gonna love it. Good luck on your Stout