Did I keg my beer right?

[moreb33rplz]

Looking for a sanity check on my process - kegged my first batch ever this AM.

I have a 5 lb tank, 2.5 gal corny, tap right (?) regulator. I disassembled the keg (lid, 2 posts, dip tube) and soaked it all plus keg in PBW overnight. Dumped and rinsed. Refilled with starsan.

- Pulled out my fermenter and racked into keg.
- Hooked up regulator to tank
- Gas line to tank
- Gas line to keg
- opened valves on tank and regulator to about 15-20 psi (I forget) and heard it make noises for a few seconds
- burped the keg with PRV a couple three times
- while at 15-20 psi I moved the keg and tank into my fridge

I think this is right, guess my biggest question is was it ok with temps, ie, the tank was warm, the keg was warm, the beer was cold (I cold crashed it last 2 days), then stuck it all in the fridge. That ok? Also realize I should lower the pressure to 12 psi when I get home.

Thanks!

 

[balrog]

Sounds good.
Hopefully you emptied StarSan before racking to keg
Other than that, I guess the nitpicky detail of checking **ALL** connections for leaks by spraying StarSan on them so you don't empty your CO2 tank prematurely.

 

[mongoose33]

You'll also want to figure out what pressure you want your beer to be. You say "15-20 psi." You say you forgot, but you need to figure out pretty soon what it is.

You *can* force-carb a keg quickly by setting pressure at 30 or 35 psi for 20-30 hours, but if you overcarb it you'll not be happy.

If it's just a normal ale, at this point set the regulator to 11 psi, maybe 12psi if you like a little fizzier beer, and let it sit until you get where you want to be.

*********

What I do is rack cold beer--typically 38 degrees--to a keg purged with CO2. Then it goes into either the keezer or a refrigerator set at normal pressure--for me, typically 11 psi.

 

[Bubbles2]

I watched this last night

 

[moreb33rplz]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'm going to lower it to 10-12 psi after work when I'm home. It's a NEIPA so probably average to just below average carb level is desired. Good vid too!

 

[moreb33rplz]

You'll also want to figure out what pressure you want your beer to be. You say "15-20 psi." You say you forgot, but you need to figure out pretty soon what it is.

You *can* force-carb a keg quickly by setting pressure at 30 or 35 psi for 20-30 hours, but if you overcarb it you'll not be happy.

If it's just a normal ale, at this point set the regulator to 11 psi, maybe 12psi if you like a little fizzier beer, and let it sit until you get where you want to be.

*********

What I do is rack cold beer--typically 38 degrees--to a keg purged with CO2. Then it goes into either the keezer or a refrigerator set at normal pressure--for me, typically 11 psi.

When you say a purged keg, you just put co2 into an empty keg, burp it a few times, then rack beer into it? Do you have to do a closed transfer for that? Because when I rack my beer the lid will be off...

 

[McKnuckle]

Turn the valve on the tank all the way open, and limit the outgoing pressure with the valve on the regulator.

There are various ways to carbonate in a keg, but if you are patient and have a queue of beers coming, just keep it simple and stress-free. Place the keg in the cold fridge/keezer. Hook up the gas, and set the gauge to serving pressure. There is a chart for that - I use 12 psi at 40F with 8' beer lines.

Now leave it alone. Within 2 weeks it will be fully carbonated and at least partly conditioned. You won't move it again until it's finished or you get tired of it.

You can hook up the liquid line at any point and try it out, proving to yourself that it is indeed not yet fully carbonated or conditioned. This is how you learn how much time it takes. The evolution is fairly predictable from brew to brew.

 

[balrog]

When you say a purged keg, you just put co2 into an empty keg, burp it a few times, then rack beer into it?

A lot of the NEIPA-ers fill keg with StarSan, completely, totally, exhaustingly full.
Hook up CO2 to now full keg and blow out StarSan, leaving CO2-only keg into which they rack, sometimes using racking can with tubing hooked to Liquid Out connector to go into keg without beer seeing any air. Some even go so far as to hook up airlock from fermenter to Liquid Out and use pure fermentation created CO2 to purge through keg during fermentation.

 

[mongoose33]

When you say a purged keg, you just put co2 into an empty keg, burp it a few times, then rack beer into it? Do you have to do a closed transfer for that? Because when I rack my beer the lid will be off...

No. To fully purge a keg that way takes about 25 purges at high pressure (if the keg is empty--but also if it's full).

What I do is fill my keg with star-san. I apply CO2 to the LIQUID OUT post so it'll bubble up from the bottom. I am careful as I do this, as if you apply too much pressure too fast the star-san will surge out and you'll have wet shoes...or more.

Anyway, it'll bubble. Know what's in those bubbles? CO2! I let it bubble to fill the headspace of the keg and also under the lid so that when I install the lid the keg contains about 5-gallons of Star-san....and bubbles of CO2. No air.

Then I will push that star-san out of the keg using CO2, into another keg if I have a clean one, or I'll save that star-san in a 5-gallon bucket. Usually am daisy-chaining kegs so I always have one keg full of star-san, purged, and ready to push into another keg.

Then when it's time to rack to that keg, I'm racking into a purged keg with no air. Some people when doing this will pull the PRV (pressure relief valve) so as to let the CO2 escape as the keg fills with beer. I will almost always install a QD with tubing on the GAS IN post, and feed the displaced CO2 back into the fermenter so as it drains of beer, it's not drawing in air, but instead is drawing in the CO2 from the keg.

That's what we mean by a closed transfer. The beer never comes in contact with the air, and with it, oxygen, and with that, oxidation.

Here's a couple pics showing this.

First, the bubbling star-san:

Second, the closed loop. I now have a stainless Spike conical but the process is the same. I'm racking the beer into the keg, and the displaced CO2 is going back into the fermenter. The cut-off airlock is all I had to fit the tubing I had at the time. Nothing holy about that, it just worked at the time.

 

[Bubbles2]

Out of the video I got that you want to charge the Keg with 30psi this sets the lid, leave it for a couple of weeks. Might have to Purge or vent it a bit after the two weeks, to then set it at the desired Co2 level prob 12.5psi, if @38ºf. If still @room temp and that 30psi is taken to 38ºf it should end up at about 12.5 take into account elevation. Ie Colorado opposed to Calif Beach.
Heads Up!- When you charge that with 30psi at 70ºf then fridge it to 38ºf the gauge will indeed drop from 30psi as the C02 chills. (see chart, temps, and psi)
As far as a closed loop, looks cool and prob works great! Looks a little slow trying to get it back through the Poppet? I wonder if that goes just as fast as using the spigot and long hose that submerges as it fills?
However at 2-3 a night 5 gal goes pretty quick, but if you have 3 tapped....

Now C02 weighs more than O2 so one would assume that if you were to vent/purge a few times after bringing it up to 30psi you should have most of the 02 outta there for it's final wait of two weeks to condition.... Or shake the hell out of it a few times a day for 10 days to get that Co2 to penetrate.

OR you could Prime it and I am sure the Yeast would use the 02 that is left while it primes the keg, remember tho in the vid he stated 1/3 the usual prime if you are going to set it with 30psi and prime.

I am so new to this it hurts, so take anything I shared with you as conjecture, coupled with what was in that vid, who seems pretty abreast of brewing.

 

[Bubbles2]

Here is the chart that was share with me the other day
https://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table/

 

[moreb33rplz]

No. To fully purge a keg that way takes about 25 purges at high pressure (if the keg is empty--but also if it's full).

What I do is fill my keg with star-san. I apply CO2 to the LIQUID OUT post so it'll bubble up from the bottom. I am careful as I do this, as if you apply too much pressure too fast the star-san will surge out and you'll have wet shoes...or more.

Anyway, it'll bubble. Know what's in those bubbles? CO2! I let it bubble to fill the headspace of the keg and also under the lid so that when I install the lid the keg contains about 5-gallons of Star-san....and bubbles of CO2. No air.

Then I will push that star-san out of the keg using CO2, into another keg if I have a clean one, or I'll save that star-san in a 5-gallon bucket. Usually am daisy-chaining kegs so I always have one keg full of star-san, purged, and ready to push into another keg.

Then when it's time to rack to that keg, I'm racking into a purged keg with no air. Some people when doing this will pull the PRV (pressure relief valve) so as to let the CO2 escape as the keg fills with beer. I will almost always install a QD with tubing on the GAS IN post, and feed the displaced CO2 back into the fermenter so as it drains of beer, it's not drawing in air, but instead is drawing in the CO2 from the keg.

That's what we mean by a closed transfer. The beer never comes in contact with the air, and with it, oxygen, and with that, oxidation.

Here's a couple pics showing this.

First, the bubbling star-san:

View attachment 626181

Second, the closed loop. I now have a stainless Spike conical but the process is the same. I'm racking the beer into the keg, and the displaced CO2 is going back into the fermenter. The cut-off airlock is all I had to fit the tubing I had at the time. Nothing holy about that, it just worked at the time.

View attachment 626182

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will look into doing it this way. I know exposing the beer to oxygen is undesirable, do you feel confident that doing transfers this way noticably improves the beer? I ask because I'm lazy - but I guess I should try for myself.

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will look into doing it this way. I know exposing the beer to oxygen is undesirable, do you feel confident that doing transfers this way noticably improves the beer? I ask because I'm lazy - but I guess I should try for myself.

I have a different view of this--and btw, yes, I think it improves the beer. Maybe you can't detect oxidation very well and it won't matter to you. But if so, I'll bet it matters to those who drink your beer and can detect it.

I do a process of continuous quality improvement, which means any place I can reasonably do something that should improve the beer, I try to do it. I believe excellent beer is the accumulation of small process advantages, and that it is in my interest to apply every process advantage I can.

If you're happy with your beer the way it is, you can either accept that and apply your laziness, or you can try to understand the things that make beer better, and apply them if you can.

Do whatever makes you happy because, in the end, you're the only person you really have to please.

 

[sbsmann]

No. To fully purge a keg that way takes about 25 purges at high pressure (if the keg is empty--but also if it's full).

What I do is fill my keg with star-san. I apply CO2 to the LIQUID OUT post so it'll bubble up from the bottom. I am careful as I do this, as if you apply too much pressure too fast the star-san will surge out and you'll have wet shoes...or more.

Anyway, it'll bubble. Know what's in those bubbles? CO2! I let it bubble to fill the headspace of the keg and also under the lid so that when I install the lid the keg contains about 5-gallons of Star-san....and bubbles of CO2. No air.

Then I will push that star-san out of the keg using CO2, into another keg if I have a clean one, or I'll save that star-san in a 5-gallon bucket. Usually am daisy-chaining kegs so I always have one keg full of star-san, purged, and ready to push into another keg.

Then when it's time to rack to that keg, I'm racking into a purged keg with no air. Some people when doing this will pull the PRV (pressure relief valve) so as to let the CO2 escape as the keg fills with beer. I will almost always install a QD with tubing on the GAS IN post, and feed the displaced CO2 back into the fermenter so as it drains of beer, it's not drawing in air, but instead is drawing in the CO2 from the keg.

That's what we mean by a closed transfer. The beer never comes in contact with the air, and with it, oxygen, and with that, oxidation.

Here's a couple pics showing this.

First, the bubbling star-san:

View attachment 626181

Second, the closed loop. I now have a stainless Spike conical but the process is the same. I'm racking the beer into the keg, and the displaced CO2 is going back into the fermenter. The cut-off airlock is all I had to fit the tubing I had at the time. Nothing holy about that, it just worked at the time.

View attachment 626182

I still want to know how, if at all, people get all the starsan solution out of the keg. The handful of times I've purged with a full keg of starsan, I always had quite a bit left behind in the keg which I did not like.

 

[day_trippr]

I have 16 corny kegs, most with a center well/bent dip tube and the others with side wells/straight dip tubes. I spent the time to "form" all of the dip tubes so the ends are smack in the middle of their bottom wells, and with that the most liquid left behind is well under a tablespoon - not dry but pretty darned close. When I purge kegs I get the last bit of air out with the kegs inverted with some rocking added until the drain line (hooked to the out post) totally runs bubble-free.

Based on the longevity of my highly-hopped beers I'm pretty happy with the process and results...

Cheers!

 

[Robert65]

I still want to know how, if at all, people get all the starsan solution out of the keg. The handful of times I've purged with a full keg of starsan, I always had quite a bit left behind in the keg which I did not like.

I have my gas tubes trimmed so they are flush with, or slightly recessed from, the interior surface of the keg. After pushing all I can out the liquid side, I invert the keg and let it drain for a minute, then with the pressurized keg positioned with the gas post at the lowest point, I pop on a gray QD and blow the remaining sanitizer out the gas post. Some people imagine you can do this via the PRV in the lid, but internally the PRV stands proud of the concave lid, and you will retain a lidful of sanitizer this way. (There is no reason to have longer gas tubes, the length they come in is an artefact of the way soda syrup was once metered as it entered the keg. In our world, that tube's only purpose in life is to hold the little o-ring.)


Note: some may be comfortable with the small amount of sanitizer left by just evacuating it through a full length dip tube. But my technique (not mine exclusively, I learned it hanging out on forums) mandatory if you have trimmed or floating dip tubes.

 

[Bubbles2]

I was reading (as usual) and I came across a graph, a chart and some detailed information on purging a filled keg. The end result was 10 psi 6 times would remove almost all o2 from fill. The person who wrote it up was very well read and seemed as though the information shared via charts and so forth were very convincing. I do not know if it was one of the resident scientist here or another forum. FWIW

 

[day_trippr]

@doug293cz has a few write-ups with charts on this topic here on HBT.
iirc, 10 cycles would be optimistic...

Cheers!

 

[Bubbles2]

@doug293cz has a few write-ups with charts on this topic here on HBT.
iirc, 10 cycles would be optimistic...

Cheers!

I do a lucky 7. LoL.... 6 when done and wait till evening and do one more.

 

[Robert65]

15 full cycles at 30 psi is bare minimum to purge O2 below acceptable levels. Helluva lot of CO2 wasted when one low pressure push of sanitizer does a better job.

 

[doug293cz]

e

 

[STMF]

I have my gas tubes trimmed so they are flush with, or slightly recessed from, the interior surface of the keg. After pushing all I can out the liquid side, I invert the keg and let it drain for a minute, then with the pressurized keg positioned with the gas post at the lowest point, I pop on a gray QD and blow the remaining sanitizer out the gas post.

This is exactly what I have been doing for a bit over a year. Works great!

 

[mongoose33]

I still want to know how, if at all, people get all the starsan solution out of the keg. The handful of times I've purged with a full keg of starsan, I always had quite a bit left behind in the keg which I did not like.

First, a little bit of star-san isn't going to hurt anything.

But here's how I get it out. Once I push the star-san in the keg into another, I have a pressurized keg, and just a little bit of Star-san left behind.

Using one of these....



...I take the keg over to a sink, attach the jumper to the OUT post, and rock and tilt the keg until it sprays out the remaining Star-San. The residual pressure should help you do that.

 

[sbsmann]

First, a little bit of star-san isn't going to hurt anything.

But here's how I get it out. Once I push the star-san in the keg into another, I have a pressurized keg, and just a little bit of Star-san left behind.

Using one of these....

View attachment 649393

...I take the keg over to a sink, attach the jumper to the OUT post, and rock and tilt the keg until it sprays out the remaining Star-San. The residual pressure should help you do that.

How is that jumper any different than just a picnic tap? My dip tubes are cut down maybe 1/2" and no matter what I try I hear a decent amount of starsan left in the keg. I don't think I understand how turning the keg upside down would help.

I also don't understand Robert65's comment "After pushing all I can out the liquid side, I invert the keg and let it drain for a minute, then with the pressurized keg positioned with the gas post at the lowest point, I pop on a gray QD and blow the remaining sanitizer out the gas post." How do you "blow the remaining sanitzer out of the gas post?

 

[Robert65]

I also don't understand Robert65's comment "After pushing all I can out the liquid side, I invert the keg and let it drain for a minute, then with the pressurized keg positioned with the gas post at the lowest point, I pop on a gray QD and blow the remaining sanitizer out the gas post." How do you "blow the remaining sanitzer out of the gas post?

Remember, I mentioned that the gas tube has been trimmed so that it does not extend beyond the inner surface of the keg. With the keg inverted and at a slight angle, this is the lowest point in the entire keg. All the liquid drains to this point. The pressure forces it all out.

 

[sbsmann]

Remember, I mentioned that the gas tube has been trimmed so that it does not extend beyond the inner surface of the keg. With the keg inverted and at a slight angle, this is the lowest point in the entire keg. All the liquid drains to this point. The pressure forces it all out.

Ah, gotcha. That's brilliant. There really isnt a need to have the gas tube extend beneath the surface is there?

 

[Robert65]

There really isnt a need to have the gas tube extend beneath the surface is there?

Nope. It only is there to hold the o-ring.

It seems that originally in the soda industry, they filled the syrup into the kegs through the out post, with an evacuation pump on the gas side. As soon as syrup was detected being pulled into the gas tube, the fill was shut off: the length of the gas tube regulated the volume of the fill. I've seen used kegs from Canada with extremely long gas tubes marked (right on the tube) "4 Imperial gallons."

But for our purposes the gas tube is kind of irrelevant.

 

[mongoose33]

How is that jumper any different than just a picnic tap?

If you have a picnic tap, use that. The point is to quickly release the pressure so the star-san blows up the dip tube and out. And it will. That device I showed is also used to rack from the siphon of a plastic fermenter to a keg, so it can serve double-duty. A picnic tap, of course, cannot.

 

[sbsmann]

Nope. It only is there to hold the o-ring.

It seems that originally in the soda industry, they filled the syrup into the kegs through the out post, with an evacuation pump on the gas side. As soon as syrup was detected being pulled into the gas tube, the fill was shut off: the length of the gas tube regulated the volume of the fill. I've seen used kegs from Canada with extremely long gas tubes marked (right on the tube) "4 Imperial gallons."

But for our purposes the gas tube is kind of irrelevant.

That is great info...thanks. And sorry to make you retype so much of that since I clearly did not understand it the first time you explained it. I think I either read too much or too little into some of these posts & miss the basics. Or I'm just not the sharpest tool in the chest

 

[sbsmann]

I still want to know how, if at all, people get all the starsan solution out of the keg. The handful of times I've purged with a full keg of starsan, I always had quite a bit left behind in the keg which I did not like.

Also, are most of u filling the keg to the absolute top so it is just about overflowing? I am always concerned about the co2 tank taking in water when pressurizing. Just curious how high is too high? Or doesnt it matter?

 

[doug293cz]

Also, are most of u filling the keg to the absolute top so it is just about overflowing? I am always concerned about the co2 tank taking in water when pressurizing. Just curious how high is too high? Or doesnt it matter?

There are two things that limit the amount of beer you should put in a keg:

1. Keep the beer level below the gas dip tube to avoid any possibility of beer getting pushed back into the regulator, which can happen if the pressure in the keg ever exceeds the pressure set by the regulator. A properly functioning check valve can also prevent this from happening, but check valves can get stuck open, or otherwise malfunction. You can shorten the gas dip tubes if you wish.
   
2. Keep the beer level at or below the top of the cylindrical portion of the keg. If the beer level gets up into the curved top, then you will affect (slow down) the rate of carbonation, since the rate depends on the exposed surface area of the beer.

Brew on

 

[Robert65]

I fill the purged keg through the liquid side, with a picnic tap (or other blowoff arrangement to bleed pressure) on the gas side (which tube is trimmed as noted earlier.) When beer starts to exit the gas port, I tilt the keg to also expel the bit of gas trapped under the dome of the lid, at which point the keg is absolutely filled, and I stop the fill. Then I put gas on the gas side, and dispense a pint or so in the normal way through the liquid side. This way I know the keg contains nothing but beer and CO2, and I know exactly how much headspace I have.

 

[IslandLizard]

Also, are most of u filling the keg to the absolute top so it is just about overflowing? I am always concerned about the co2 tank taking in water when pressurizing. Just curious how high is too high? Or doesnt it matter?

You mean when filling it with water or Starsan to prepurge?
Yes, in a similar way as @Robert65 described when filling with beer, tilting at the end. If you don't push the Starsan from another keg, there are other ways to fill those last few ounces.

I also push out a pint and purge that small headspace a few times before pushing out the rest. Just in case it wasn't filled quite full, and some air was trapped in the headspace. Much easier and better to purge a pint than anything larger.

 

[sbsmann]

You mean when filling it with water or Starsan to prepurge?
Yes, in a similar way as @Robert65 described when filling with beer, tilting at the end. If you don't push the Starsan from another keg, there are other ways to fill those last few ounces.

I also push out a pint and purge that small headspace a few times before pushing out the rest. Just in case it wasn't filled quite full, and some air was trapped in the headspace. Much easier and better to purge a pint than anything larger.

Yes, when filling the keg with starsan to purge. I assume the goal is to fill the keg 100%, but I would think when u hook up the co2 the water could come back into the regulator when the keg is 100% full (even with cut-off co2 tubes)?

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, when filling the keg with starsan to purge. I assume the goal is to fill the keg 100%, but I would think when u hook up the co2 the water could come back into the regulator when the keg is 100% full (even with cut-off co2 tubes)?

It should not if there's pressure on the gas QD before you attach it. You may hear a little bubbling from CO2 pushing in, especially if there is a little air pocket left. The domed lid is difficult to fill from underneath. Even pulling the PRV when pushing in the last few ounces does not totally eliminate air, as the bottom of the PRV is below the top of the lid. Tilting, rocking seems to help. But, that's why I purge 5x at 30 psi after pushing the first pint out.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

To the OP:

Your process sounds solid. A couple things you left out, but I assume you did:

1. Apply Keg lube to all the rubber seals
2. Verify the poppet insert and spring are in place (don't ask me how I know this)

FYI, I don't do nearly as much to clean and fill my kegs as the bretheren above. When I have a bucket of starsan available (say on brew day) I'll rinse out an empty keg and close it up with a shot of co2 to pressurize the seals. I try to do this within a couple weeks of kicking the keg. On kegging day I'll completely disassemble the keg, running a brush through the dip tubes and rinsing all the parts off with starsan. Apply keg lube to all the rubber seals, then fill, pressurize and store until I have a slot in the kegerator to begin carbing with co2. On fill day I siphon, close the lid, apply co2 and purge the headspace a couple times.