"Dialing in my system"

[Vedexent]

With the acknowledgement that "it will take as long as it takes", that - as a new brewer - I'm still dialing in my process and learning things, and that everyone is different:

I was wondering how long it took you to "get it down pat"?

I mean, to be reasonably confident that the results you were getting out of your pipeline matched what you intended.

It won't affect my approach. I'm going to damn well keep trying and improving 'til I nail this sucker

But, I'm curious as to people's experiences out here.

Thanks,

 

[SlitheryDee]

Honestly it's too early for me to tell. I've only done four batches, counting the first two Mr. Beers, but I feel like I've at least got the extract brewing process down. What I mean by that is I know what step is next without having to consult a book or instruction manual now. I know what needs to be sanitized and when the best time to do that is.

The Mr beer is fully carbonated and tasting better with every sampling. The cream ale is bottle conditioning and still probably a week away from being anywhere close to a "final" product. The wheat beer is at least a week away from bottling.

With every cycle I've seen where I was lacking and have made improvements to my equipment though. I've been pitching the yeast a few degrees higher than I'm comfortable with, so I bought an immersion chiller for the next batch. My auto siphon was injecting air into the beer rather than starting the siphon, so I got one that works a lot better. My bottling wand leaked, so I've got a spring loaded one on the way. These were all things that I had to figure out the hard way I suppose.

Any further improvements are probably going to come from temperature control more than anything else. Pitching my yeast at a lower temperature should be a good start for that. Eventually when I get into all grain brewing I'll have to go through a lot of this again though.

 

[jaspass]

The tricky thing about this question is that your target of being "reasonably confident" will change the more you brew. Simply put, you will continue to want to raise the bar after each brew as you learn something new. I remember when I started brewing I would make a beer and think, hey this isn't bad. The reality was that though it wasn't undrinkable, there was much room for improvement. I look back at those days and think how nice my friends probably were to me when tasting, and how little I actually knew. I hope I look back at today and think the same thing at some level as it means I've continued to improve. Hopefully as you brew, you will continue to challenge yourself in that way. There is always a new level to take things.

For me I started extract as do most people. Of course this was 20+ years ago before resources like the internet were available, and I had no friends who brewed so it was slow learning with only a single book to help, The Complete Joy of Homebrewing, and an out of state family member I could occasionally bounce questions off of. My next step was to go to kegging which I felt simplified cleaning and gave me better results. Then I went all-grain for more control. Then I bought a fermentation chamber to control fermentation temperatures. Then I focused on yeast management. Then I focused on more precise controls and tools (pH meters, strong temperature readings and controls at every step, gravity readings everywhere, etc...). Then I focused more on learning water chemistry to try and really dial in styles. The list goes on. At each step of the way my expectations of getting it down pat changed.

My recommendation would be to find a recipe or two that you'd like to call your staple beers that you'll make often, and focus on improving those for a bit and you will see improvements. Of course we all want variety so I'm not suggesting don't brew different styles, but if you jump around too much in styles without trying to improve a single style, you will struggle with identifying the things to improve on because stylistic differences will muddy the waters.

Enjoy the process, it is half the fun of brewing. So your original comment of "it will take as long as it takes" is spot on.

 

[mongoose33]

It wasn't until my 6th batch that I produced a beer that was, IMO, better than what they had at the local watering hole.

How long it takes YOU depends on a number of factors, including how good you are at learning.

Now, the fact that my 6th batch was great didn't mean at that point I had things down pat; not even sure do now. As I noted in another current thread, I've followed a process of continuous quality improvement, i.e., every time I brew I try to do something better.

I just finished my 31st batch, the last 28 have been all-grain. Among the things on which I've improved include fermentation temperature control, oxygenating wort, making starters, rehydrating dry yeast, water profiles, getting oxygen out of the process as much as I can post-fermentation, adding a pinch of yeast nutrient to my most recent starter.

IMO, new brewers shouldn't be flying all over the place trying different recipes; they should brew simple recipes known to produce good beer, and work on their process. If you're radically changing everything each time, how can you nail down issues since so much is changing?

To me, the real measure of beer is whether people trying it want another. Almost everybody will say nice things about your beer, but will they want to have another? That's the real test, IMO. At some level I don't care as long as I like them, but repeat customers are a rather decent assessment of your beer.

***************

Maybe a different way for me to think about this is how long did it take until I felt confident I'd produce good beer. I'd say probably the 15th batch, give or take. By then, I'd brewed a few recipes more than once, and they tasted the same each time, and were good, so I felt like I understood the process fairly well.

 

[Vedexent]

Some really excellent points, thank-you!

I can totally see the bar always raising; there are kinds and styles of beer which I think are fascinating, but I acknowledge are way beyond my current knowledge and equipment; e.g. I really like sours.

I can also see the "always learning, always improving" aspect of home brewing; it's one of the attractions for me (apart from the actual beer).

And I think focusing in on a particular recipe/process and trying to get it down cold is also an excellent suggestion. I may focus on making a really good Weizenbier (which is a type of beer I really enjoy), in batches of good, repeatable, quality.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[violinguy]

I'm 2 years in but I'm not sure I'm "dialed in" yet. Problem is, I keep trying something new with every brew so there are always little things done differently. I will say I'm fairly comfortable in cleaning and sanitizing. Also bottling. Those don't really change so after about 20 brews, I've got that part down.

Definitely brew something you like, and try to get it just right. Doesn't make much sense to reach for new beers you're not sure about while you're still getting the hang of this. Take good notes, use brewing software (helps with calculations), and enjoy. No point in doing this if it isn't fun.

 

[JayInAmes]

Batch 16 bottled yesterday, still learning something every time. My volumes are more on target, temps closer to target, etc. But I still wound up with extra going in to the fermenter (not a bad thing!), but the OG was about the same because my efficiency was higher. Slowly getting better at this. Doesn't seem to take as much time, either.

 

[bajaedition]

my advice is to brew up a few beers just to get the method down, and make a check list and use it every time
then start learning about stuff one category at a time
1 yest and starters
2 water profiles and ph
3 hops and how they work in the boil
4 grain, extract, sugars

learn as much as you can about each, at that point you will understand brewing and your system will be dialed in by your knowledge.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I brewed extract in the 90's and made very good beer, but at the time there weren't a ton of micros out there to compare to.

I just got back into brewing and jumped straight into all grain. My first batch was excellent, but I missed high on volume and low on gravity. Brewed batch number two saturday, nailed the volume, but still low on gravity (got 1.060, was expecting 1.067). Not sure why at this point, but I haven't reviewed my data yet.

Most the process is going well. I used brew365.com to get the starting temp for mash water and I've nailed my mash temp within .3 degrees both times. I had a quality ph meter this time and came in nice on my predicted mash ph.

I will say this: I'm having a blast and refining each time. I would like to get a pump so that I'm not carrying, lifting, and pouring hot liquid. That seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[brewcat]

To dial in my current system took 3 or 4 brews. Knowing things like efficiency, boil off and yeast attenuation. Now recipes pretty much match the numbers. I also know on average how long each step will take which keeps my timing good.

Probably about the same when I started brewing extract. 3 or 4 brews.

Having a good process is the biggest step in making good beer. Luckily it is easy and never really changes a whole lot. You introduce new variables along the way but the basics are still the same.

 

[Sailingeric]

I have been brewing for about 2 and half years, and AG brewing for about 1 year and every batch I learn something. I got a 15 gallon pot in October for as a birthday gift to myself and it took about 3 batches to get my boil rate down, I have improved my sparging method but it took 3 or 4 batches to make sure I was consistent enough to adjust my recipe. But I keep in mind that if I miss my expected numbers, not big deal, the beer will still be good and I can adjust next time.

 

[Vedexent]

But I keep in mind that if I miss my expected numbers, not big deal, the beer will still be good and I can adjust next time.

This is what I'm trying to keep in mind

This early is my game, and with me jumping right into AG, a beer that is drinkable is a win for me.

A beer that I feel I could comfortably hand out to friends would be a major victory

 

[thaymond]

I had my equipment "dialed in" after 10 AG batches, and produced with good results for the last 15 to 20 batches. I just upgraded my equipment, all of it. Went from 10g pot to a 20g pot. Added a CFC to chill hot wort. Refractometer, ph meter, new BIAB . I had to come up with new routine, new procedure, new method. I figured it would be an extra hit on time...

Brewed yesterday and cut 2 hours off my brew day. Dialed in.