Apparently that's the way you do a quick d-test on a small sample of beer (if you do a forum search for diacetyl test it should turn up). I've never done it myself but some do. Not like he heated a whole batch to that temp!
Diacetyl Test and Diacetyl Rest Length
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Apparently that's the way you do a quick d-test on a small sample of beer (if you do a forum search for diacetyl test it should turn up). I've never done it myself but some do. Not like he heated a whole batch to that temp!
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ayoungrad
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. Sounds like a diacetyl rest can work.
I heated one sample (about 4 oz) and cooled the second (also 4 oz) because that is how I have read to do a test for diacetyl. They were just samples, the rest of the beer is in the fermenter.
bh10
Well-Known Member
My bad, I missed the "they were samples part"
But, yes it can work and work excellent, if you wouldve taste the hydro sample you would have never thought yeast could clean that butter popcorn taste up, and it did just that.
My bad, I missed the "they were samples part"
But, yes it can work and work excellent, if you wouldve taste the hydro sample you would have never thought yeast could clean that butter popcorn taste up, and it did just that.
And if you don't taste diacetyl in the sample but there IS some present, the beer will get much worse. Sometimes there is no hint of diacetyl in a sample but when it's been lagered for a beer, the beer is movie-theatre-butter-style beer. In other words, it gets worse, not better!
Diacetyl is buttery in large quantities but in very small quantities it's more of an "oily" feel on the tongue or teeth, or a slickness in the mouthfeel. I bet if you try an unheated sample again, you may have a slight hint of an oily feel.
In any case, keep doing the diacetyl rest.
Yooper would you say to always do a d-rest for every lager, no matter what? Seems to make sense to me but I was talking to a fellow lager brewer last weekend do doesn't do them routinely b/c he thinks the temp increase affects the flavour of lagers. I had really convinced myself to just do one for every lager at 1.020 since the flavour profile should have been determined by that point.
What say you?
What say you?
ArcaneXor
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I do what you could call a D-rest for all my beer, ales and lagers. It's just part of my normal fermentation profile whereby I let the temperature free-rise after about three or four days of fermentation. I do this mostly to improve attenuation, but reducing diacetyl is a nice side-effect (although I don't usually have much diacetyl in my beers to begin with).
Yes, this is just a normal part of many people's process. Jamil Z recommends it for every beer also.
I don't always do one, but usually I do. For lagers, some of them may not be strictly needed but it's a "can't hurt, might help" step.
Indyking
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Sorry ayoungrad, can't read the whole thread now, but there was any consensus on when the D-rest should be done. I hear all types of different versions even in the famous books... I always do it before fermentation is done, in the last quarter, but then my last Pilsners all had more than adequate diacetyl on them, so I don't know...
gritmaster
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This is a very good post - Lots of questions on my part:
1) OK to Krauezen (add fermenting beer) after lagering?
2) What temp should "Krauezen beer" ferment at (before added to the original beer)?
3) What yeat should "Krauezen beer" use? (same lager strain as original beer, neutral lager strain, ale strain)?
4) After adding "Krauezen beer", what temp to ferment at, and for how long?
5) Related to #4, simply cold crash after the "Krauezen beer" has done its job and carbonate/serve?
6) Should the "Krauezen beer" mimic that of the original beer (e.g., same malts) or could one simply used DME?
I ask all of this because my first lager attempt (Marzen brewed 8 weeks ago) had zero diacetyl taste until I tasted a sample during lagering. I raised temp to ~68F for about a week and most of the diacetyl was cleaned up (I was lagering on the yeast cake - a mistake??) but some diacetyl is still discernible.
1) OK to Krauezen (add fermenting beer) after lagering?
2) What temp should "Krauezen beer" ferment at (before added to the original beer)?
3) What yeat should "Krauezen beer" use? (same lager strain as original beer, neutral lager strain, ale strain)?
4) After adding "Krauezen beer", what temp to ferment at, and for how long?
5) Related to #4, simply cold crash after the "Krauezen beer" has done its job and carbonate/serve?
6) Should the "Krauezen beer" mimic that of the original beer (e.g., same malts) or could one simply used DME?
I ask all of this because my first lager attempt (Marzen brewed 8 weeks ago) had zero diacetyl taste until I tasted a sample during lagering. I raised temp to ~68F for about a week and most of the diacetyl was cleaned up (I was lagering on the yeast cake - a mistake??) but some diacetyl is still discernible.
chemman14
Well-Known Member
I would love to know the answers to these questions as well from the people who have Krausend their beer. It is something I would love to do now that I keg my homebrew
paraordnance
Well-Known Member
here is my take on this since I krausened 4 lagers so far.
1) I would suggest to krausen before lagering, since if you do it after you basically have to almost lager it again and wait week or two untill yeast settle down for best results
2) Preferably within reccomended range for the yeast you will use but I have made krausening beer (1 qt) at room temperature with W34/70 with good results, I could not taste any off-flavours probably due to the fact that ammount of beer added is so small
3) Best results with same yeast strains, I have some W34/70 laying around so I use that. Never tried ale yeast but I heard people done that with good results
4) From my experience doesnt matter, I done both room temperature and 50F. At room temp it will finish sooner
5) Actually if you use krausening calculator you can figure out exactly how much krausening beer you need to carb your beer naturally in keg. About 1.5 qt of wort of 1.040 gravity will carbonate keg to 2.5 volumes in 1-2 weeks
6) I used pilsen DME but you can use whatever you have laying around
I also one of those crazy ones who lager on yeast cake
with good results, whatever works for you
1) I would suggest to krausen before lagering, since if you do it after you basically have to almost lager it again and wait week or two untill yeast settle down for best results
2) Preferably within reccomended range for the yeast you will use but I have made krausening beer (1 qt) at room temperature with W34/70 with good results, I could not taste any off-flavours probably due to the fact that ammount of beer added is so small
3) Best results with same yeast strains, I have some W34/70 laying around so I use that. Never tried ale yeast but I heard people done that with good results
4) From my experience doesnt matter, I done both room temperature and 50F. At room temp it will finish sooner
5) Actually if you use krausening calculator you can figure out exactly how much krausening beer you need to carb your beer naturally in keg. About 1.5 qt of wort of 1.040 gravity will carbonate keg to 2.5 volumes in 1-2 weeks
6) I used pilsen DME but you can use whatever you have laying around
I also one of those crazy ones who lager on yeast cake
with good results, whatever works for you
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ayoungrad
Well-Known Member
Update on original post:
I just ran another diacetyl test, having left the bucket at 68 for 2 more days. There is only minimal buttered popcorn aroma in the new heated sample. Its possible that I did not heat it long enough as I am in a bit of a hurry. But it looks very promising at day 4 of the rest.
I'm going to let it sit for 2 more days and will recheck on Saturday and I'll let people know...
I just ran another diacetyl test, having left the bucket at 68 for 2 more days. There is only minimal buttered popcorn aroma in the new heated sample. Its possible that I did not heat it long enough as I am in a bit of a hurry. But it looks very promising at day 4 of the rest.
I'm going to let it sit for 2 more days and will recheck on Saturday and I'll let people know...
OP
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ayoungrad
Well-Known Member
UPDATE
It has now been six days since I started my diacetyl rest:
2 days at 65 had in your face movie theater buttered popcorn diacetyl presence...
SO... I agitated the fermenter and raised the temp to 68...
2 days at 68 resulted in partial improvement in the diacetyl...
2 more days (today) and there is no discernible (at least by me) diacetyl.
So, what conclusion can I draw from this?... Diacetyl test results can be reversed with a diacetyl rest prior to lagering as fermentation is winding down without the need for krausening.
Granted this is essentially an already proven method but its still nice to see it work real-time.
I'm starting to decrease temps as we speak. I can't wait to see how the final product turns out.
It has now been six days since I started my diacetyl rest:
2 days at 65 had in your face movie theater buttered popcorn diacetyl presence...
SO... I agitated the fermenter and raised the temp to 68...
2 days at 68 resulted in partial improvement in the diacetyl...
2 more days (today) and there is no discernible (at least by me) diacetyl.
So, what conclusion can I draw from this?... Diacetyl test results can be reversed with a diacetyl rest prior to lagering as fermentation is winding down without the need for krausening.
Granted this is essentially an already proven method but its still nice to see it work real-time.
I'm starting to decrease temps as we speak. I can't wait to see how the final product turns out.
