Diacetyl questions

[PKHomeBrew]

Hey all, long read- sorry.

I have read a lot about off flavours, and ‘in theory’ I know what buzz words are used to identify them. Putting it to practice is trickier. I think I may have Diacetyl in my latest brew, but if I do, it ‘appeared’ later than i expected. I brewed a recipe like this (found online-a beaus lugtread clone):
9lbs 2row
1lb toasted raw wheat
0.37 lb carafoam

Mash (Biab) 75mins 152F
.5oz Pearle 60mins
1.0oz hallertauer

Kölsch 2565 yeast (no starter)
Ferment at 61F for 8days. Raise to70F for 3 days. Cold crash for 3 days (geletine added after 1day).

I tasted this beer a few time during this process, and was looking for butter flavours, especially after the d-rest. I didn’t know exactly what I was looking for, but it tasted great. After the cold crash, I moved it to my keg, and tasted. No butter. NOTE: I made a bit of an error moving it to the keg. I put my siphon tube in the (non-co2 purged) keg so that it curled back up and created a stream (like a fountain) of beer inside the keg for about 10s before I was able to bury the siphon end under the beer for the rest of the fill. I am concerned it got some O2 at that point.

I waited about 3days and tried it. I am not 100% certain, but there may be a very light hint of butter, that I can only pickup on the first sip. I sipped again, and although green, i didn’t get butter. I waited 5 mins, and tried it again. Maybe butter??? I not sure if it’s real or in my head.
Questions;
- could I have created this issue by adding a bit of O2 by mistake?
- could it be in my head or something else? Or will lagering fix it?
-if it is Diacetyl, can I fix it?

 

[V-Fib]

I'm only on my 2nd lager so I can't really give input to the diacetyl but if you don't have a silicone hose for your auto siphon its worth the money. They are easy to clean and they don't hold the shape of how they are stored. So it won't curl up on you.

 

[brewcat]

Lagering probably will help. Testing for diacetyl should also include a diacetyl test to detect acetolactate.

I'm guessing your beer will be fine, it is a bit young. Your biggest problem may have been pitch rate.

 

[MaxStout]

It might be your taste buds playing tricks. Once it tastes like butter, the next it doesn't. You are conscious of diacetyl, and so you are expecting it. Like a placebo. The threshold of taste for diacetyl is very low, like on the order of a ppb. If it's really there and you can taste it once you will taste it again and again.

As you said, the beer is young. Give it another week or two and re-taste.

 

[PKHomeBrew]

Awesome! Thanks all.

I will not try to fix it or anything atm. I will try again in a couple weeks. I will post an update here.

 

[PKHomeBrew]

I tried it again last night. You guys are right.

I keep reading to ‘relax and have a homebrew’ I tried that - tasted better.

 

[Miraculix]

I tried it again last night. You guys are right.

I keep reading to ‘relax and have a homebrew’ I tried that - tasted better.

It happened to me as well recently. Green Pilsener when botteling, butterscotch, I was sure....

One week later after botteling and carbonation, completely gone. Expectations can do funny stuff to our perception!

 

[RM-MN]

It happened to me as well recently. Green Pilsener when botteling, butterscotch, I was sure....

One week later after botteling and carbonation, completely gone. Expectations can do funny stuff to our perception!

Time can do wonders too. We recommend a diacetyl rest for a lager, not because they all create diacetyl, but because it is a good precaution and that warmer temperature does other things besides letting the yeast eat diacetyl. Once in the bottle or keg, there is still yeast and given the right conditions the yeast can clear up diacetyl then.

 

[Miraculix]

Yes, this might have played a part as well.

 

[MaxStout]

Yeast can make a mess in fermentation, and throw some off-flavors like diacetyl. But they also clean up after themselves later. That's what the d-rest is for. A horrid tasting beer today can taste nice next week. That's why you NEVER dump a batch until you have tried everything and you're sure that nothing more can be done.