Decoction for barley wine

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rewster452

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I will soon be brewing a barleywine. I am doing a parti-gyle and making a larger batch of smaller beer from the second runnings. I will also be doing a decoction to step from protein rest to sacchrification and a second decoction to step from sacchrification to mash out.

I'm hoping to bring out flavors of bread and aroma of grains and fields... It's all very romantic. I'm using a vast majority of 2 row, with just a small amount of Vienna and wheat malt, for body.

Anyway, I'm thinking that instead of portioning off a volume of the mash to boil for the first decoction, I might make a separate smaller mash to boil by itself. It would be mostly, or even entirely wheat malt. My thinking is that by boiling a higher concentration of wheat malt, I might achieve a really bready type of toastiness the Vienna won't quite get on its own. For the second decoction I would proceed as normal, portioning from the top of the mash.

Has anyone else tried anything like this, or care to give advice?
 
Thinking more about this, the first decoction should be 50% from the mash and 50% wheat malt, adding water to adjust. I want a good toasted barley flavor as well.
 
Anybody? Well, I'm going to try it out. This is the grain bill:

66.7% 2-row
12% Vienna
10.7% Wheat malt
5.3% Torrified wheat
5.3% Caramunich
 
The jury is still out on wether a decoction dows anything (or does anything that speciality graisn cannot replicate). Just decoct in the traditionnal way: I very much doubt you could see discern any change in taste from doing another mini mash and pulling your decoction only from this one. This is just asking for trouble on brew day.

In a barleywine, a decoction might help with efficiency if anything.
 
How did this work out for you? I'm looking to get a barley wine going in the next month or so, when time allows, and was thinking of decocting.
 
Thanks guys for the input. I'll definitely let you know how it works out. I won't be brewing it until next week, or maybe the following week. And due to the long aging, I won't really know until October. But I am going to go ahead and do it the tricky way, just because this is a special beer, and anything that will help, even a barely discernable amount, is worth the pain in the ass. I have my method very well planned out, and given that every brew day has that one thing that happens out of nowhere against all odds, or more likely, against my own ability to predict the outcome, I'm ready to do it.

I'll also be doing a parti-gyle beer and making a smaller saison out of the second runnings. I'm calling it Que Sera Saison, because I have no idea what it will taste like, but I'm certain it will be good, and I'm using a saison yeast and fermenting at relatively higher temps.

On brew day I will post a comprehensive list of everything I did, and how I did it, and you can be sure that when the time comes to drink it, there will be tasting notes!

Until then, any advice or wisdom is very much appreciated!
 
So, brewday has come and gone. I thought I would share with you.

I would start with a recipe, but the whole thing is somewhat convoluted as we did a parti-gyle and made two different beers. So I'll give you a list of procceses and fill in recipe details where they make sense.

We started by mashing 16 lbs of Crisp Marris Otter in 8 gallons at 150 for 60 minutes.

Then we sparged that and used 6.7 gallons of the resulting wort to mash back in at 123 with (we saved the rest of the runoff for later):

9 lbs Crisp Maris Otter
4.5 lbs Vienna
4 lbs Wheat malt
2 lbs Caramunich
2 lbs Torrified Wheat

We immediately pulled a decoction of 3.5 gallons. We were able to hold a rest at 123 for 20 minutes, quickly bring it to 150 for 20 minutes, and boil for 12 minutes to add back in about 60 minutes later and bring the main mash, amazingly now holding at 122, up to 150. We held it there for 40 minutes and pulled another 3.5 gallon decoction, this one much thinner than the last, and boiled it less than 5 minutes, and brought the main mash up to 170 after just less than 60 total minutes at 150. I was hoping to get it a little hotter, maybe 172, because I knew there to be somewhere on the order of a ****ton of sugar in there, and I wanted it to be fluid.

We tried to fly sparge the entire mash, which in retrospect was a huge mistake. Batch sparging would have been the way to go. As it was, the sparge took forever and got stuck twice. The third time we dumped the entire mash into a clean kettle, cleaned our sparge lines and false bottom, put it back together with more water at 172 and started over. Essentially a half-assed frustrated batch sparge a little too late.

But once our kettle was full to 8 gallons it tasted wonderfull! The level of sweetness was mind-blowing. Unsure of our efficiency in that terrible sparge, we opted to wait until after the boil to take a gravity. We were shooting for about 1.090 and then we'd boost it to 1.105 with a pound or so of candi sugar. We thought sure it was lower, but it did taste good, so we continued on.

We let the sparge continue, now at a predictable and manageable rate, into two clean buckets. When it finally stopped running sweet we had 12.5 gallons waiting for us. We threw in an ounce of Perle and an ounce of Strisselspalt for a first wort hopping. This would become the Que Sera Saison.

Meanwhile, we continued with the Beer'n'Bread Barleywine

2.5 oz Magnum at 60 minutes
1 lb candi sugar at 15 minutes
.75 oz Kent Goldings leaf at flame out

We chilled this and pitched a monster 2nd generation starter of 1084 Irish ale yeast to almost exactly 5 gallons after boil loss. Now, here's the amazing part. We took a gravity reading and were astounded to read a gravity of 1.134. Immediately we were concerned about 2 things.

1.) Somehow all the sugar from the entire mash ran into the first 8 gallons and we would have an incredibly weak saison.

2.)The Irish ale yeast, which is fine up to gravities of 1.100 and even higher on a good day, will have a really hard time with 1.134.

On to Que Sera Saison:

Boiled the already hopped wort to hot break and started a 60 minute timer. Then we added .75 oz of Strisselspalt at flameout, along with .25 oz of the Goldings Leaf. I think we also added some Magnum at the beginning too. To be honest, the whole idea of the Que Sera Saison is that we didn't want to waste a whole bunch of perfectly good wort taking first runnings for the monster barleywine. And our attitude is pretty much, whatever will beer we'll drink, so Que Sera Sera.

Long story short, we chilled and added our Saison yeast and got a gravity of 1.052, which was what we had been aiming for before our Barleywine came in a full 29 points over our estimate.

Both beers are now resting comfortably in the brew closet. But within hours of pitching, the barleywine erupted in a fit of orgasmic fury and threw off 1.5 gallons in the blowoff. So now he's only 3.5 gallons. The Saisons also, somewhat surprisingly, blew off their airlocks, but didn't turn into volcanos like the barleywine.

So now we play the waiting game. I'll be sure to tell you how it turned out.

Oh, and for those of you who are paying attention, I totally did not end up doing the complicated wheat dominant decoction like I planned. Numerous people tried to talk me out of it, and after what turned out to be a 17 hour brew day, I have to say I think they were all right.
 
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