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Debate my buddy and I had. Is extract brewing REALLY making homebrew?

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One of the things that is great about this board is that only *once* in my five or six months here have I ever seen a post that expressed any kind of derogatory sentiment towards extract brewing. Someone, I can't remember who, not someone who's around a lot, said words to the effect of extract brewing basically being a cop-out because doing AG wasn't all that difficult. Now, I'll find out how difficult myself shortly, but just ask your friend exactly how frickin' tough it is to do AG. Hell, if I'm able to do it, there won't be any reason for anybody to get snotty about it!
 
AG isnt hard at all, it just takes longer and a bit more patience. I wont say anything derogatory about extract, because to each his own. If you are sastified with extract, then more power to you, and Brew On brother!
As of now Ive done 7 extracts and 10 AG. Will I go back to extract? No, probably not. Ive come to really enjoy the extra process of AG brewing. Plus its cheaper, alot cheaper.
 
Catfish said:
What about the hopped extract brewing? Or the just add warm water brewing? Would that still be homebrew?
For me, I'm staying away from kits altogether...especially hopped extract kits. For me, it's more fun to be somewhat original, and the hopped extract kits do seem like a bit of a copout now that I've become a bit more "adventurous." That said, if someone were perfectly content brewing hopped extract kit beer, I wouldn't have a single negative thing to say about that person. I might encourage him to try something different/more advanced, but I wouldn't $hit all over him for declining and sticking to his preferred kits.

Someone here said it best, I think - "Real homebrewers aren't elitists."
 
the_bird said:
One of the things that is great about this board is that only *once* in my five or six months here have I ever seen a post that expressed any kind of derogatory sentiment towards extract brewing. Someone, I can't remember who, not someone who's around a lot, said words to the effect of extract brewing basically being a cop-out because doing AG wasn't all that difficult. Now, I'll find out how difficult myself shortly, but just ask your friend exactly how frickin' tough it is to do AG. Hell, if I'm able to do it, there won't be any reason for anybody to get snotty about it!

I hope you didn't take my post as derogatory towards extract brewers. I'm an extract brewer.

Oh, btw, sorry for reopening the can. I just had this friendly debate with a buddy (it didn't get heated or anything) so I thought I would share it with my brewing buddies online.

BTW, he did start with extract brewing, but he says it felt like he was making a frozen dinner, when he could have been making the steak himself (his words, not mine).
 
Of course extract brewing is "real" homebrewing. When I buy all the ingredients at the store and formulate a recipe and make dinner from those ingredients, does the fact that some of those ingredients have been "processed" make me any less of a cook? Of course not.

I do, however, tend to think that the "kits" you buy, especially the prehopped ones, can be compared to Hamburger Helper. There's no guesswork, no creativity, just following directions and putting pre-measured ingredients into a pot. Sure, it's still homebrewing, but it compares to p/m and ag like cooking a meal from scratch compares to hamburger helper. That's not to denigrate either those who use kits, or those who make hamburger helper...I'm just saying, as with anything, there are varying degrees of difficulty and involvement that typically correspond with varying levels of creativity and, for me, passion and fun. My favorite brews so far are the ones that, instead of using a Papazian recipe, I've done tons of research into the style and formulated my own recipe from scratch. And I've yet to do an all-grain recipe!

So, all in all, I'd say the real change comes when you start making your own recipes, not whether you use 100% grains vs 40% grains vs steeping vs all extract.

Lastly, I'll say that I am planning to do AG sooner or later, but it seems to me that it will double the time that it takes to brew, and, quite honestly, I already catch sh!t from SWMBO for my 6-hour sessions. That, and it's a step up in terms of infrastructure/equipment that takes an investment of time and some money as well. The step up from steeping/extract to partial mash was simply borrowing another kettle from a friend, whereas the step up from p/m to ag will require much more. Not to mention that I have quite a bit of extract that I'll need to finish off before I ever even think about ag.
 
MrEcted1 said:
BTW, he did start with extract brewing, but he says it felt like he was making a frozen dinner, when he could have been making the steak himself (his words, not mine).

A frozen dinner? Hahaha. Yeah, I remember the last extract batch I made. Cobbled all the ingredients together, put them in the microwave for 3:30, and BAM, I had beer!

What a ridiculously inane comparison. :confused:
 
MrEcted1 said:
I hope you didn't take my post as derogatory towards extract brewers. I'm an extract brewer.

Not at all. My point was that of the thousands of posts that I have read over the past five or six months, I have only once seen anybody express a sentiment anything like what your friend has expressed. I'm sure they are out there, I'm sure there are AG people who get all uppidy about it, but they don't tend to frequent homebrewtalk.com. I'm extract so far, I'll probably always do extract, my move towards AG is just a personal choice to do more and learn more (this seems to be a natural progression) but it does not change how I might feel about people who choose to NEVER go the AG route.
 
Walker-san said:
Tell your friend that real homebrewers are not elitists.

-walker

Careful mentioning BMC drinkers around some of these people who aren't elitists, though. ;)
 
Evan! said:
A frozen dinner? Hahaha. Yeah, I remember the last extract batch I made. Cobbled all the ingredients together, put them in the microwave for 3:30, and BAM, I had beer!

What a ridiculously inane comparison. :confused:

Haha, yeah it is! I think that was the point when I started to ignore everything he was saying.
 
Sorry, off-topic here but what does SWMBO mean? i've seen it a few times and I haven't been able to decipher it myself yet.
 
MrEcted1 said:
Sorry, off-topic here but what does SWMBO mean? i've seen it a few times and I haven't been able to decipher it myself yet.

It took me awhile too, as this is the first (and only) place I've seen that acronym. It means She Who Must Be Obeyed.
 
how many extract brewers dont aspire to AG? once i get a full grip on extract, i'd like to make my own recipes. once i can do that, why not move on to AG? i'm just saying, theres no reason to start at the most complicated level. like anything, learning the basics is the key to excellence at the highest levels...or , you gotta start somewhere. its not really like training wheels on a bike, more like ...well, you guys threw out some good analogies already...

my point went way away from where i meant it to. uh yea, i think extract brewing counts as homebrewing.
 
Wheat King said:
uh yea, i think extract brewing counts as homebrewing.

I agree, it's homebrewing - just not at the highest level. At least we're more advanced than those Mr Beer guys! :D
 
My Pop never did full grain (although one year he did press his own dandylions for Dandy Wine) and I've got no interest in AG either.
 
rdwj said:
I agree, it's homebrewing - just not at the highest level. At least we're more advanced than those Mr Beer guys! :D

For me, the "highest level" of homebrewing is to make phenomenol beer on a regular basis, independent of what technique you use. Technique and outcome aren't always distinct from one another, but trying to go all-grain just to say you can do it, while making mediocre brew, seems silly. I don't understand what all the self-image stuff is doing connected to homebrewing. ? Who cares if someone thinks you're a real homebrewer or not? Have a few of your own homebrews and you won't give a rat's ass about their opinion. cheers,

monk
 
Monk said:
For me, the "highest level" of homebrewing is to make phenomenol beer on a regular basis, independent of what technique you use. Technique and outcome aren't always distinct from one another, but trying to go all-grain just to say you can do it, while making mediocre brew, seems silly. I don't understand what all the self-image stuff is doing connected to homebrewing. ? Who cares if someone thinks you're a real homebrewer or not? Have a few of your own homebrews and you won't give a rat's ass about their opinion. cheers,

monk

I think you're right and I don't mean to belittle extract. I'm an extract brewer at this point and a novice one at that. If I were to go AG now, it would be silly. I have enough to learn before adding another dimension to my brewing.

That being said, I aspire to go AG one day, but would NEVER turn down a good brew no matter how it was made.
 
MrEcted1 said:
I hope you didn't take my post as derogatory towards extract brewers. I'm an extract brewer.

Oh, btw, sorry for reopening the can. I just had this friendly debate with a buddy (it didn't get heated or anything) so I thought I would share it with my brewing buddies online.

BTW, he did start with extract brewing, but he says it felt like he was making a frozen dinner, when he could have been making the steak himself (his words, not mine).


No need to apologize. I only meant that this is one of the subjects that keeps coming up , along with some others. and they will be discussed again, too, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. They're kind of this forum's answer to politics........
 
I do AG, and I don't do extract anymore. There's nothing wrong with extract, and I haven't ruled out doing it some other time, especially if I'm short on time and need to whip up a beer.

Like anything, brewing takes toys and equipment, and AG allows one to assemble an impressive array of stainless, copper, plastic, interlocking hoses, tubes, pumps, etc.

I'm in it way toooo deep at this point, so I feel obliged to do AG. Either that, or I'm trying to compensate for a shortcoming with all my large, shiny equipment.

Extract brewing is still brewing. We have two all extract microbreweries here, and both are pretty good. :mug:
 
Does your friend grow and harvest his own grains?

Roast or malt them himself?

Does he grow his own hops?

Does he harvest his own yeasts?

No? Then tell him he's not a real homebrewer!
 
Okay, the guy in question (his name is Nick) actually works with me. I brought up a couple of the points that you guys brought up. I told him "Well, since you don't grow your own hops, grains...etc then that means you're not a real homebrewer either" and he replied with something along the lines of the following (keep in mind that I definitely don't follow these beliefs)

"Sure I don't grow my own hops, but someone competing in a chile cookoff doesn't grow their own tomatoes, onions, garlic...etc. But you can't take a can of staggs, add a few spices and call it your own. The guy who wins the competition knows how to create chili from scratch"

So I guess he's trying to imply that extract brewers just take a few ingredients and the premade extact and make a brew, while the AG brewer takes control of the whole process. That's coming from him. I'm trying to get him to setup an account on this website so he can debate this himself...

I told him that just because we don't mash the grains ourselves doesn't mean that we don't have good control over the beer. This guy is just too proud of himself. I respect any brewer, AG, extract, Mr Beer, it doesn't matter... if you brew your own beer then more power to ya!
 
Ah another thing I meant to mention.

This guy, although he does AG is not a very good brewer at all. Oftentimes either him or I will bring beers to work on a friday to share with the guys and gals after work. Last time he brought in an ESB and it COMPLETLEY lacked any carbonation what-so-ever. At the time i was nice about it... but 2 people didn't even finish their beers because they didn't like em. So of coarse I brought up "Hey, even though I brew extract beers at least mine are carbonated and people drink them!"... he wasn't happy about that remark... He told me that his lacked carbonation because when he bottled the beers, they were accidently placed where direct sunlight was hitting them. I just let him believe his own excuse.
 
MrEcted1 said:
I'm trying to get him to setup an account on this website so he can debate this himself...

It's likely that if you managed to get him to join this forum, he would benefit from it as most of us do. He might stick around, become part of the community, learn a lot, and contribute back for the benefit of others. That would be really neat, don't you think? It might lead to an expansion of the ranks of knowledgeble and passionate homebrewers, always a cool thing.

Though I wonder how welcome he'd feel if he read this thread.
 
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