Debate my buddy and I had. Is extract brewing REALLY making homebrew?

[MrEcted1]

My buddy and I, who also brews (AG) got into a friendly debate. On one side (mine) I was saying that of coarse extract brewing was really making homebrew. I said it takes out the step of mashing the grains, but you still have good control over the finished product. You still add specialty grains (if desired), you still add hops, you still follow much of the same procedures, except you don't have to mash the grains.

On his side he was saying that extract brewing was not really making your own beer because mashing grains is a significant step in brewing and offers even more control. He said extract brewing was the "just add water" method of homebrew. He also mentioned that since I don't know how to do AG right now, if someone just handed me a bunch of grains and hops then I wouldn't know how to use them to make beer, which is true - right now anyways.

I of coarse stand firm on my belief, but I was just curious as to what you guys think.

- peace!

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Well, that's like saying cause you don't mill your own flour you don't really bake bread.

 

[kornkob]

While there is some added steps and control in mashing your own, extract brew still encompasses the core elements of making beer: proper tempurature control and good ingredient handling.

Consider this: I've tasted beer made by 4 differnet guys using the exact same extract kit on the same day and their were noticible differneces in flavor. Also, I've made the same Honey Brown Ale many times and have only recently been able to manage the process so that I get consistent results. It's easy to make good tasting beer--- it's harder to make it exactly the same each time.


Saying a 'real' brewer has to mash his own grains is like saying a chef isn't a 'real' chef unless she manufactures all her own ingredients. My sister has never made cheese but the things she can whip up in a kitchen with it.... tell you what--- I never miss a dinner at her place.

 

[Ize]

To my mind, you're brewing, whether using extract or all grain. You boil your ingredients, you add all the necessary items, you put in yeast, you let it ferment, you bottle or keg, it's carbonated, it's beer.

You've brewed.


My .02 anyway.


Ize

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Oh, man........this old can of worms is open again. I brew AG and you are just as much of a homebrewer as me. Tell your "friend" that I said to go piss up a rope.

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

Tell your "friend" that I said to go piss up a rope.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[EdWort]

Well, that's like saying cause you don't mill your own flour you don't really bake bread.

Great analogy!

 

[disaffected]

Ah, the old "is photography really art" thread. Geez, you get a variation of this same debate on just about every forum!

 

[Walker]

Tell your friend that real homebrewers are not elitists.

-walker

 

[Ize]

Tell your friend that real homebrewers are not elitists.

-walker

:rockin: :rockin: :rockin:


Ize

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

Tell your friend that real homebrewers are not elitists.

AND they don't use bleach.

 

[MrEcted1]

Oh, man........this old can of worms is open again. I brew AG and you are just as much of a homebrewer as me. Tell your "friend" that I said to go piss up a rope.

Sorry didn't realize there was an existing can of worms.

 

[MrEcted1]

AND they don't use bleach.

Ah, now THIS is a can of worms LOL

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

Sorry didn't realize there was an existing can of worms.

I think it may be the biggest one in brewing. We're all civilized enough around here to know the right answer...

 

[RichBrewer]

If you are enjoying yourself and the end product is beer and it is good then you are a home brewer.
The whole point is to make home brewing an enjoyable hobby. Brew your beer the way you like and RDWHAHB

 

[olllllo]

Don't ever offer one of your non-beers

 

[Walker]

Sorry didn't realize there was an existing can of worms.

These are the cans:

(1) aluminum vs. stainless steel
(2) bleach as a sanitizer
(3) AG vs. extract
(4) glass vs. plastic

There are probably more.

 

[RichBrewer]

These are the cans:

(1) aluminum vs. stainless steel
(2) bleach as a sanitizer
(3) AG vs. extract
(4) glass vs. plastic

There are probably more.

(5) Dry vs. Liquid yeast

 

[Walker]

(5) Dry vs. Liquid yeast

I thought of that one but I don't really recall any heated debates about it, so I didn't add it.

-walker

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I think it may be the biggest one in brewing. We're all civilized enough around here to know the right answer...

which is "Right way, Wrong way and MY way!"

 

[Rdracera1]

If you made it, waited / watched while it fermented, bottled / kegged it, it smells like beer and tastes like beer. My friend your brewing beer thusly your a brewer.

 

[Jaybird]

I think we need a "can of worms" thread
ask your friend if he started with AG and if he coincerded himself.....nah nevermind!!! HEll yes extract brewing is really homebrewing hell for that matter pouring coffee in a pot is homebrewing is it the best way to accomplist the end result well thats for you to descover... can you make sound beer with this method ??HELL ya we have all done it some of us are just a little more "BEER GEEKED OUT" than others and choose a diferent method. you brew it you like it what does it matter. SO... does he make good beer though and does he share with you?????
JM.02
JJ

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

real homebrewers grow their own grains and kiln thier own malt, and don't forget harvest then propogate wild yeasts!

Seriously, a punch to the head might get him to shut up.

 

[Ize]

Seriously, a punch to the head might get him to shut up.

Every time someone does something stupid to me in traffic, I tell SWMBO I'm going to drag them out of their car and punch them right in the forehead. She cracks up...

I drink so I digress....

Seriously tho, it's silly. (Unlike the Pirate/Ninja thread) You're making BEER. It doesn't matter what ingredients you use, or what techniques you use to get to the end product, you have created BEER, and last time I checked the only way to do that is to BREW. You're boiling ingredients to extract the flavors from them to create something tasty. It doesn't matter if those ingredients are still partly shelled or in a dry powder or liquid form. You're still brewing, and so you're still a Homebrewer.

Unless you do it someplace else, then you're a Transientbrewer.

Ize

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I brew outside by the side of the house on the gravel part of the driveway. Am I a driveway brewer or what?
Soon to be getting an 11' by 20' portable instant garage. Then I'll be a Gargage brewer! yay!

 

[Ize]

I brew outside by the side of the house on the gravel part of the driveway. Am I a driveway brewer or what?
Soon to be getting an 11' by 20' portable instant garage. Then I'll be a Gargage brewer! yay!

LOL dammit, U know that makes you a "Manufactured" Home Brewer.


Ize

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I'm professional. My beer is brewed in a manufactury.

 

[sonvolt]

Tell your friend that real homebrewers are not elitists.

-walker

Welll . . . . some are!. Let's admit it.

Extract brewing is brewing.

 

[Catfish]

What about the hopped extract brewing? Or the just add warm water brewing? Would that still be homebrew?

 

[Truble]

All I know is that I have a bunch of stuff that I bring home, none of which is beer. I follow a recipe that I have come up with myself, and then care for the product through cooling, fermentation, clearing, bottling, and aging. I think that is brewing.

your man there needs a little dope slap.

 

[the_bird]

One of the things that is great about this board is that only *once* in my five or six months here have I ever seen a post that expressed any kind of derogatory sentiment towards extract brewing. Someone, I can't remember who, not someone who's around a lot, said words to the effect of extract brewing basically being a cop-out because doing AG wasn't all that difficult. Now, I'll find out how difficult myself shortly, but just ask your friend exactly how frickin' tough it is to do AG. Hell, if I'm able to do it, there won't be any reason for anybody to get snotty about it!

 

[Desert_Sky]

AG isnt hard at all, it just takes longer and a bit more patience. I wont say anything derogatory about extract, because to each his own. If you are sastified with extract, then more power to you, and Brew On brother!
As of now Ive done 7 extracts and 10 AG. Will I go back to extract? No, probably not. Ive come to really enjoy the extra process of AG brewing. Plus its cheaper, alot cheaper.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

What about the hopped extract brewing? Or the just add warm water brewing? Would that still be homebrew?

For me, I'm staying away from kits altogether...especially hopped extract kits. For me, it's more fun to be somewhat original, and the hopped extract kits do seem like a bit of a copout now that I've become a bit more "adventurous." That said, if someone were perfectly content brewing hopped extract kit beer, I wouldn't have a single negative thing to say about that person. I might encourage him to try something different/more advanced, but I wouldn't $hit all over him for declining and sticking to his preferred kits.

Someone here said it best, I think - "Real homebrewers aren't elitists."

 

[MrEcted1]

One of the things that is great about this board is that only *once* in my five or six months here have I ever seen a post that expressed any kind of derogatory sentiment towards extract brewing. Someone, I can't remember who, not someone who's around a lot, said words to the effect of extract brewing basically being a cop-out because doing AG wasn't all that difficult. Now, I'll find out how difficult myself shortly, but just ask your friend exactly how frickin' tough it is to do AG. Hell, if I'm able to do it, there won't be any reason for anybody to get snotty about it!

I hope you didn't take my post as derogatory towards extract brewers. I'm an extract brewer.

Oh, btw, sorry for reopening the can. I just had this friendly debate with a buddy (it didn't get heated or anything) so I thought I would share it with my brewing buddies online.

BTW, he did start with extract brewing, but he says it felt like he was making a frozen dinner, when he could have been making the steak himself (his words, not mine).

 

[Evan!]

Of course extract brewing is "real" homebrewing. When I buy all the ingredients at the store and formulate a recipe and make dinner from those ingredients, does the fact that some of those ingredients have been "processed" make me any less of a cook? Of course not.

I do, however, tend to think that the "kits" you buy, especially the prehopped ones, can be compared to Hamburger Helper. There's no guesswork, no creativity, just following directions and putting pre-measured ingredients into a pot. Sure, it's still homebrewing, but it compares to p/m and ag like cooking a meal from scratch compares to hamburger helper. That's not to denigrate either those who use kits, or those who make hamburger helper...I'm just saying, as with anything, there are varying degrees of difficulty and involvement that typically correspond with varying levels of creativity and, for me, passion and fun. My favorite brews so far are the ones that, instead of using a Papazian recipe, I've done tons of research into the style and formulated my own recipe from scratch. And I've yet to do an all-grain recipe!

So, all in all, I'd say the real change comes when you start making your own recipes, not whether you use 100% grains vs 40% grains vs steeping vs all extract.

Lastly, I'll say that I am planning to do AG sooner or later, but it seems to me that it will double the time that it takes to brew, and, quite honestly, I already catch **** from SWMBO for my 6-hour sessions. That, and it's a step up in terms of infrastructure/equipment that takes an investment of time and some money as well. The step up from steeping/extract to partial mash was simply borrowing another kettle from a friend, whereas the step up from p/m to ag will require much more. Not to mention that I have quite a bit of extract that I'll need to finish off before I ever even think about ag.

 

[Evan!]

BTW, he did start with extract brewing, but he says it felt like he was making a frozen dinner, when he could have been making the steak himself (his words, not mine).

A frozen dinner? Hahaha. Yeah, I remember the last extract batch I made. Cobbled all the ingredients together, put them in the microwave for 3:30, and BAM, I had beer!

What a ridiculously inane comparison.

 

[the_bird]

I hope you didn't take my post as derogatory towards extract brewers. I'm an extract brewer.

Not at all. My point was that of the thousands of posts that I have read over the past five or six months, I have only once seen anybody express a sentiment anything like what your friend has expressed. I'm sure they are out there, I'm sure there are AG people who get all uppidy about it, but they don't tend to frequent homebrewtalk.com. I'm extract so far, I'll probably always do extract, my move towards AG is just a personal choice to do more and learn more (this seems to be a natural progression) but it does not change how I might feel about people who choose to NEVER go the AG route.

 

[kornkob]

Tell your friend that real homebrewers are not elitists.

-walker

Careful mentioning BMC drinkers around some of these people who aren't elitists, though.

 

[MrEcted1]

A frozen dinner? Hahaha. Yeah, I remember the last extract batch I made. Cobbled all the ingredients together, put them in the microwave for 3:30, and BAM, I had beer!

What a ridiculously inane comparison.

Haha, yeah it is! I think that was the point when I started to ignore everything he was saying.

 

[MrEcted1]

Sorry, off-topic here but what does SWMBO mean? i've seen it a few times and I haven't been able to decipher it myself yet.