Death of the generalist

[Onkel_Udo]

I agree. It's even worse when you're a consultant working from home with unlimited work. Every hour you spend on the roof or yard or cars is another $$ you could have earned.

From watching my mom's small business experience...if you have unlimited work, it means you are not charge nearly enough. It also applies to law of supply and demand. She did not raise her hourly in spite of a more than 6-month backlog of work for almost 10 years straight.

MY company is about to piss of my primary "employer" by converting me to a consultant. The "employer" dropped me to 36 hours (at my suggestion) to allow me to work for a different division in a different country. My billable amount goes up 60% my take home 30% (but slightly better benefits) as a consultant. I am not concerned if they will say yes or not.

Need is need.

 

[Zuljin]

That's not how you look for leaks?

Well, you can find memory leaks in your PC that way, but first you have to make your own real soap, with lye.

 

[TheMadKing]

Well, you can find memory leaks in your PC that way, but first you have to make your own real soap, with lye.

But you don't want to get cold while you make soap, so you'll have to shear a sheep, clean and card the wool, dye it using lichen and other natural plan dyes, spin some yarn, and knit a sweater.

Or if you don't like knitting, tanning hides is good fun... Smelliest thing I've ever done

 

[TX_Brewing]

In my late 30's, and like many of you I do a lot of my own work. I fix most of the problems on our cars, always do brakes and other typical maintenance issues. I have never had an issue jumping in and fixing problems even on my now former Land Rover and current jag. They are after all just machines. I find it sad that so many people are amazed that I can do these things, and fix items around the house. I agree that we live in a disposable society and way too many people just replace rather than repair items. So here is what I propose, every time we fix something we raise a toast to ourselves, not that I wouldn't anyway.....

 

[BadDeacon]

In my late 30's, and like many of you I do a lot of my own work. I fix most of the problems on our cars, always do brakes and other typical maintenance issues. I have never had an issue jumping in and fixing problems even on my now former Land Rover and current jag. They are after all just machines. I find it sad that so many people are amazed that I can do these things, and fix items around the house. I agree that we live in a disposable society and way too many people just replace rather than repair items. So here is what I propose, every time we fix something we raise a toast to ourselves, not that I wouldn't anyway.....

Prime example: eye surgeon friend had an alternator go out on a suburban. 20 minutes and he was back in business. Saved him $300. He said 'I could never do that!' I thought: I couldn't take a scalpel to an eye.....

 

[CGVT]

I think Zuljin hit on it earlier. When it comes to deciding what projects to do and what to hire out, my main consideration is what is worth more, my time or my money?

Do I want to spend a Saturday morning changing my oil to save $15 bucks in apparent savings over what it cost at the local Jiffy Lube. If it takes me three hours to get the oil and filter, do the job and clean up, dispose of the oil etc etc, did I really save any money? It certainly is not worth it to me.

Of course, there are many jobs that are more than worth the money. It was amazing how handy you becomes when you purchase a house...

 

[Kampenken]

...So the real question, what caused this? Is it being told we "can't" do something for a couple of generations has made us believe we can't? Is it fear of the consequences if we screw up? Is it a lack of "foundation" that does not give us the basic building blocks to realize we can do things? Maybe there is no understanding of the feeling of accomplishment when when you try something totally outside your comfort zone and succeed (back to a lack of foundation)?...

So what do you think? Am I just being hypercritical? Is the entire first-world evolving into specialists at the expense of everything else or is a phase that will reverse itself? Are people juts scared to jump in with both feet?

This thread got long, I read only the first two pages, but my two cents.

First, being a diy type, we can't view life thru that single lens, it is easy to fall into that. Some people can only do 1-2-3-4, in that order just fine. They know what to do, but not why. So something goes out of order, they can't adjust. There's a whole spectrum of people out there, those that readily adjust and create something new to those that are stopped in their tracks. So maybe part of this is simply inability, even to figure out how to go about and do it. Not to say they can't learn it.

Then, there's the whole continual evolution of our society. No longer are we on farms, laboring away to meet our basic needs, instead we've changed (that's not bad) and are working in other fields. And with that I suppose we lose some of those skills. To the "natural" diy, it seems like a shame, to others its not even a thought. Oh, and finally, maybe its just me, but there's so much information now, specialist might be what is needed.

Now go hire someone and keep this economy rolling along!

 

[Stillraining]

Deleted see below

 

[mongoose33]

Someone mentioned watching YouTube and then being an armchair expert - I'm going to tell you about the last car I worked on. I changed the struts on my daughters Toyota. I was a bit leery on compressing the springs and taking the struts apart.

It was easy

and YouTube helped out immensely...

Dont discount it.

There's a difference between a know-it-all fool whose only knowledge comes from watching a youtube video, and someone who uses it as a basis to gain knowledge to do a specific job.

There are certain things that, once I look into how to do them, I realize they are not in my comfort zone. I learned how to reload ammunition entirely from what I found on the internet. You'd better believe I was incredibly careful as I did this, as few things will sharpen your focus than creating small packages that are designed to explode inches from your face.

The same goes for electricity--it can kill you if you're not smart. Plumbing, for the most part, isn't life-and-death unless you manage to allow sewer and potable water lines to cross. But the potential for water damage from foolish plumbing jobs makes it nearly as problematic.

The trick is in knowing when you're not certain and the risk/reward ratio is out of whack. How much does a mistake cost? If the reward isn't enough for the potential cost, it's better to hire it out.

 

[Stillraining]

I am almost daily frustrated and confused by the average American (but was once more frustrated by the average German). My frustration is the "can't" attitude.

Maybe its already been said, too many posts to read.. ...I CANT DO IT !! lol

One reason I can think of is that school and career paths today condition people to "Specialize" as if you don't you are told and maybe rightly so that you will have a tougher time finding employment you want.
That mentality will permeate a persons whole thought process, as if they don't feel specifically trained in something they wont tackle it.
You cant call that lazy. You might call it lack of self confidence at best. Or you might just call it money well spent in their opinion to have a pro do it for them. If you make 100.00 per hour in your vocation why would you remodel your bathroom instead of hiring a contractor for 35.00 ph?...You would be loosing 65.00 ph.

 

[user 125772]

Ever heard the little phrase? : "I possess a device, in my pocket, that is capable of accessing the entirety of information known to man.
I use it to look at pictures of cats and get in arguments with strangers."

This is why "I can't"

 

[passedpawn]

a know-it-all fool whose only knowledge comes from watching a youtube video

That's me!

 

[MTbrewer99]

Agree with what a lot of others have said. I think I used to do everything I could on my own out of necessity. Even now that I can afford to pay someone else, it's more about pride. I feel pretty confident that I can figure just about anything out on my own. Completing a project is just satisfying to me. I think people today just enjoy convenience. I grew up in a poor family. My father taught me to do things because we couldn't afford anything else. I learned how to be independent and work hard. Those are values I still try to apply every day. I guess that's why I can't manage to call a repairman even to save myself a little time.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Maybe its already been said, too many posts to read.. ...I CANT DO IT !! lol

One reason I can think of is that school and career paths today condition people to "Specialize" as if you don't you are told and maybe rightly so that you will have a tougher time finding employment you want.
That mentality will permeate a persons whole thought process, as if they don't feel specifically trained in something they wont tackle it.
You cant call that lazy. You might call it lack of self confidence at best. Or you might just call it money well spent in their opinion to have a pro do it for them. If you make 100.00 per hour in your vocation why would you remodel your bathroom instead of hiring a contractor for 35.00 ph?...You would be loosing 65.00 ph.

Your first paragraph defines what I saw in Germany. With a certificate with many stamps on it saying you were qualified to do something, the average German defaulted to "knowing" they couldn't if they did no have that particular cert.

The second one has still never worked out for me. I am a less extreme example of what you described...I make about twice as much as I would spend for mundane repairs to home or car. I use quick oil change places for my truck and DD. I do not mount my own tires.

That said, I have never found a "savings" from having a professions do even a moderately big job around the house outside of having a roof done or a furnace installed. The reason is their unreliability and inability to finish on time and clean up after themselves means I spend more of my valuable time waiting on them. I went through this recently (twice) when helping others' prep their houses for sale...trim guy took 4 days longer than planned so paint guy could not get in on time so he pushed out a couple of weeks to go to other jobs and electrical guy no-showed twice when I took time off work to meet him and let him in the house (In the end, I just did that work), etc, etc.

When I redid my kitchen, I had it gutted, drywall hung and ready for mud and tape. Since I was on a really tight schedule, I hired a company with very good references to get it to primer. They said 3 days so I offered a 10% bonus to be done on time and added that to their standard contract. They finished the morning of day 5 so I had to pull and all-nighter to finish flooring. They also used no system (zip walls) to reduce the amount of drywall dust getting in the rest of the house and did not use the primer spelled out in the contract so I still had to re-prime the one original wall.

The last contractor I hired was a hardwood floor guy. I made it clear that the ONLY window to do the work was 5 days while I was gone to the track and the dogs were at the boarders. I moved all the furniture out of the rooms before I left and re-iterated to him that this was non-negotiable (boarding all my dogs is about $100/day). I returned home to find he had not yet started. I changed the locks, used his machines to do the work myself (the sanding and screening after stain). I called him after and told him the machines would be in my driveway at 6 am the next day so he probably ought to show up to get them...that he showed up for. This one cost me $580 in boarding fees, a twelve hour night getting to second coat of stain, three hours a night for three nights getting the poly (screen, vacuum, wipe down with alcohol, apply) down and $40 a day for buffer to screen between coats. It was a $1500 bid on the job.

 

[Braumeise]

I am almost daily frustrated and confused by the average American (but was once more frustrated by the average German). My frustration is the "can't" attitude.

This will sound like bragging but this is simple truth and it really should (and probably does) apply to everyone. Outside of physical limitations, there is not much I can't do if I put my mind to it. I learned many things from others directly (watch one, do one, teach one) but a lot of my "skills" were learned from books, and later the internet, and then just trying. I am sick of hearing people say they can't do whatever when they see me jump in and do it. I am not special or particularly above average in intelligence nor was I raised by people with a particularly broad-based, generalized knowledge and skill set.

I work on cars, do all my own remodeling work to include all systems, build databases, brew beer, cook, do small appliance and small engine repair, etc. I am not exceptional at any of these things but pretty good at a novice level for many. I take pride in being self-sufficient but through all my experience I also have learned many things I loath doing and will have others do for me. I am much slower at ALL of these things than an expert is...sometimes painfully slow.

So this attitude that I, and some others, have seems to have mostly died off with the baby boomers as far as I can tell (I am in my early 40's). As a society, we became specialist. The DIY craze briefly sparked an interest in learning home improvement skills but it seems a bit one-dimensional. The old farm boys like my grandfather and his generation did about everything for themselves out of necessity. One of my race team members, a mid-60's retired coal mine mechanic, is the same way.

So the real question, what caused this? Is it being told we "can't" do something for a couple of generations has made us believe we can't? Is it fear of the consequences if we screw up? Is it a lack of "foundation" that does not give us the basic building blocks to realize we can do things? Maybe there is no understanding of the feeling of accomplishment when when you try something totally outside your comfort zone and succeed (back to a lack of foundation)?

I initially knocked Americans for this but I can tell you the Germans brought overspecialization to level of insanity when I lived over there in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

So what do you think? Am I just being hypercritical? Is the entire first-world evolving into specialists at the expense of everything else or is a phase that will reverse itself? Are people juts scared to jump in with both feet?

haha! I am German and I realized since living in the US how pathetic a lot of Germans are!

Not sure if it is a generational issue but I find myself constantly saying to people over in Germany: get the words right! If you do not want to do it, if you do not want to attempt, to try and maybe fail, then say "I don't want to", that is perfectly fine, but don't say: I can't because you could, if you wanted!

A lot of people over there have become way to comfortable and stuck in "their ways"

 

[phug]

I agree with pretty much everyone here.

There are some things I'm not comfortable attempting (anything involving natural gas, for example), but most household jobs really aren't that hard. I might not know what I'm doing, but the nice thing about the internet age is that half an hour of YouTube videos can make me competent enough to tackle the job.

This weekend I installed a new garage door opener because my 20-year-old opener had finally given up the ghost. I might have been able to fix it with a new logic board, but I figured I might as well get a new one. I've never done one of these, but the garage door company wanted almost $500 and I did it for $180. Most people I know these days would have spent the $500.

And now you can motorize your mill with the extra motor

 

[GHBWNY]

I am one of those guys that spends his life in front of a computer.

But I go back to...vast majority of folks that believe they cannot do for themselves simple things around the house or on their car (say brake pad replacement)? Where do you think this belief came from...?

I don't know where that belief comes from. Maybe it's from not being taught? Not being encouraged? Not being modeled by someone else? Or someone being told they couldn't do something? That they were incapable? Untalented? Stupid? ...?

Whatever causes someone to not attempt those everyday DIY tasks could simply be laziness or being in a position to not have to do anything for yourself. My worst enemy in the early days of DIY was a fear of failure, or making things worse, or causing serious damage to something or someone (even myself). For me, fear is a preconceived notion of the way something is going to be. And it's somewhat paralyzing. But once I deal with it, it loses its power. Just going ahead with it, not knowing everything, is how I approached most of my home remodeling projects when I started many years ago. Maybe it was a good thing that I didn't know what I was doing, because I also didn't know what I was doing wrong!

Now I watch my early-30s son-in-law/IT guy, who spends all day in front of a computer. He could have written The Weekend DIY-Guy Book; there is almost nothing he is afraid to try around the house. Having never attempted it before, he has done electrical wiring and panel work, hung and finished drywall, plumbing, insulation, framing, installed kitchen cabinets, made and installed trim, lights, heat, venting, poured his own concrete countertops, built furniture, repaired his car, etc.. And he does it pretty well for the little experience that preceded his attempts. Whatever he does, the desire to fulfill a sense of accomplishment trumps the fear of trying.

It's easy to believe what you do; it's harder to do what you believe.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

20 something here living in the burbs. Raised by a family who did damn near everything themselves. Looking back I realize there were a lot of things I wish I had paid more attention to. I was never a natural at most diy projects, but did manage to pick up a thing or too. Combine that with the angst of a teen and you have a recipe for ignorance . I was, however, that kid splitting wood by hand.
We've only been homeowners for 1.5 years (renters before that) but so far I've done all the minor repairs myself with the exception of pressure washing our siding (high up in the back...let someone else deal with that ).

If I had to bet, I'd say the disposable attitude is part of it, but isn't as big of a factor as time.
I'm salaried and work in an office job, so finding time to do things like change the oil in my car is a challenge. I can do it without any issue, but there isn't much savings there when just the parts are considered, let alone the time spent. For me, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

For my parent's and grandparent's generation, work was rarely an interfering factor in their home life. You worked from 8-4, Monday-Friday. At the stroke of 4, you left and went home. IME that's becoming less and less common. How many people here still check emails or work on reports after hours? My guess is that it's pretty common.

I have a list of hobbies/trades I keep telling myself I'll get into someday, and it's as long as my arm. I know almost nothing about electrical wiring or how a car works, but until I can find time to try, fail, and retry these things they're going to stay on the list.

 

[TheMadKing]

I also think there's a huge difference between knowing HOW to do things for yourself/learn new skills and choosing not to, vs not even wanting to learn a new skill.

It's not like there's limited room in your brain, so why not keep learning.

I had to show a 22 year old how vice grips work last week. He had never seen them before.

My boss is unable and unwilling to cook anything ever. "Even Mac and cheese is too much like cooking for me." He eats out every meal of the day.

I had to explain the strategy behind mopping a floor to one of my coworkers so that she didn't mop herself into a corner. This woman makes $45k/year...

Specializing is one thing. Idiocy is another.

 

[Turkeyshot]

I also think there's a huge difference between knowing HOW to do things for yourself/learn new skills and choosing not to, vs not even wanting to learn a new skill.
It's not like there's limited room in your brain, so why not keep learning.

This above says it all. I have always fixed everything around the house and on cars etc. myself. If I do not own the tools for a specific job I would buy,rent or borrow what I needed. My point being that with all the car repairs, landscaping, sprinkler installation, painting, and anything else that came up, my oldest son learned zero.

He has no interest in becoming skilled at anything, he would rather sit at his computer playing games and let others do things for him. Of course since he has no interest in anything he also works for minimum wage and can barely pay rent, but needs his internet connection. So perfect example of choosing not to learn. I always tried to teach and explain how to get things done, but he always had the 'yeah whatever' attitude. Thankfully my younger one asks all sorts of questions and like to help and learn. :rockin: Sorry but lazy people drive me to the limit.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

For my parent's and grandparent's generation, work was rarely an interfering factor in their home life. You worked from 8-4, Monday-Friday. At the stroke of 4, you left and went home. IME that's becoming less and less common. How many people here still check emails or work on reports after hours? My guess is that it's pretty common.

Though I am not a clock puncher or clock watcher, I have stopped taking work home. I learned an important lesson about 12 years ago...no one thanks you (monetarily or otherwise) for going the extra mile on your own time. They also will eventually take it for granted...and take advantage.

I will not link my personal phone to work email (and oddly I don't rate a company phone) and I will not take my work computer home unless I have "prior written authorization" to work from home (stupidest rule ever for salaried folks). I am sure I donate a 1/2 hour here and there to the company, but it has been a long time since I worked unpaid overtime of any sort...salaried or not. You have to be pretty confident in your job security, or employability elsewhere, to take a stance like that...but it is so liberating when you do. When I work over on closing week, I skip a day the next week when we are slow.

My hobbies and life outside work are just that important.

 

[TheMadKing]

Though I am not a clock puncher or clock watcher, I have stopped taking work home. I learned an important lesson about 12 years ago...no one thanks you (monetarily or otherwise) for going the extra mile on your own time. They also will eventually take it for granted...and take advantage.

I will not link my personal phone to work email (and oddly I don't rate a company phone) and I will not take my work computer home unless I have "prior written authorization" to work from home (stupidest rule ever for salaried folks). I am sure I donate a 1/2 hour here and there to the company, but it has been a long time since I worked unpaid overtime of any sort...salaried or not. You have to be pretty confident in your job security, or employability elsewhere, to take a stance like that...but it is so liberating when you do. When I work over on closing week, I skip a day the next week when we are slow.

My hobbies and life outside work are just that important.

I do the same as well.

My newest coworker (can't mop girl) volunteers her time for free constantly and it drives me nuts. She probably works an extra 4-5 hours per week for free. The boss loves her, despite her incompetence at everything because she's a yes-woman and has no self respect. People like that make my personal life harder and I have no respect for people who don't respect themselves or the value of their time.

 

[iijakii]

Things have just shifted directions. There's as many people that can't uninstall a damn program or do basic maths as those who can't turn a wrench or hang some drywall.

 

[TheMadKing]

Things have just shifted directions. There's as many people that can't uninstall a damn program or do basic maths as those who can't turn a wrench or hang some drywall.

The problem is, a lot of those are the same people.

 

[Twins_Dad]

Every single day I'm blown away by the helplessness of my peers. I frequently wonder how most people figure out tying their shoes because if the total lack of sense, and unwillingness to learn new things.

Honestly I think it all comes down to fear. People are afraid of what they don't know, so they never learn it, and the less they know, the more they are afraid. It's a compounding problem. Every day at work people ask me how I learned how to do things and my reply is always the same, "I tried and failed until I didn't."

THIS! I am constantly amazed at how many people around me lack the drive to accomplish tasks on their own. I get asked frequently how I know how to do this or that......you just do it damn it! Yeah, you may fail but that is how you learn. Have I ever rebuild a VE pump on first generation Cummins? NO, but i did it, and i did it by myself. Now I have a sense of pride every time I drive that truck despite how ugly and outdated it is. You can't buy that feeling, and I don't expect many people these days to understand it.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Though I am not a clock puncher or clock watcher, I have stopped taking work home. I learned an important lesson about 12 years ago...no one thanks you (monetarily or otherwise) for going the extra mile on your own time. They also will eventually take it for granted...and take advantage.

I will not link my personal phone to work email (and oddly I don't rate a company phone) and I will not take my work computer home unless I have "prior written authorization" to work from home (stupidest rule ever for salaried folks). I am sure I donate a 1/2 hour here and there to the company, but it has been a long time since I worked unpaid overtime of any sort...salaried or not. You have to be pretty confident in your job security, or employability elsewhere, to take a stance like that...but it is so liberating when you do. When I work over on closing week, I skip a day the next week when we are slow.

My hobbies and life outside work are just that important.

That's definitely true. My old man worked for a company for years, taking call, working OT just to get sh!t on regularly. There's a difference between going "above and beyond" and being a yes man, like was stated above.

I've got a bit of a different circumstance since I work for my FIL. The pros DEFINITELY outweigh the cons (work from home when I need to without question for example), so I'm not complaining at all. He's a great boss like that to everyone, but the nature of the job is pretty demanding. Since he's family and since we're all treated like people instead of machines, I'll absolutely donate some of my free time.

 

[bbohanon]

I could so ramble on this topic.

I am 43 and father of 3 kids who are of the generation that things are "easy" and money grows on trees. They are actually alot more grounded than some of their friends whose parents give them $50k Diesel pickups or Challengers as soon as they turn 16. Not sure what these parents are thinking but that does NOTHING but breed a sense of entitlement with kids. My oldest(17) is the only one of his circle of friends that has a real job that he has to go to and earn money for his extra curricular activities, gas money, etc. I will not be his nor any of my kids personal cash register.

From a work perspective, I cannot tell you how many times I run into folks who get paid good money and do basically nothing but walk around the halls with a pen and clipboard to look busy. Most of the time they are the guys who join conference calls just to do some saber rattling so it looks like they know what they are talking about and have skin in the game when you know damn well they could care less about any of it.

I take pride in my work and what I do. I want to do it better and more efficiently than my peers which seems to not be the norm. I like to learn new things that not only help me, but bolter the resume for future opportunities as well as help make my team more efficient with more of us knowing how to do each others job so I am not the only one who knows how it all works(Lottery/Bus Factor). Most of my peers would rather keep their heads down and remain anonymous, in their silos and do "just enough" to continue to be on the payroll.

Its become all about how to remain employed and do as little possible for the paycheck, especially in the corporate world.
Its sickening and is alot of the reason why I am moving closer to just stepping on a ledge with my own business. I am tired of working for someone else and being the only one who gives a damn.

And then there are those folks who are not lazy, they are just complete idiots and should be wearing crash helmets to work. That's a rant for another day.

/rant off :fro:

 

[ajdelange]

I don't discount youtube.

I remember the Gray Furnace Man in my prayers every night.

 

[ajdelange]

Not hard if you remember what year Geo Washington was born

Hey thanks for that! Now I have a way of remembering when George was born!

 

[TheMadKing]

I could so ramble on this topic.

I am 43 and father of 3 kids who are of the generation that things are "easy" and money grows on trees. They are actually alot more grounded than some of their friends whose parents give them $50k Diesel pickups or Challengers as soon as they turn 16. Not sure what these parents are thinking but that does NOTHING but breed a sense of entitlement with kids. My oldest(17) is the only one of his circle of friends that has a real job that he has to go to and earn money for his extra curricular activities, gas money, etc. I will not be his nor any of my kids personal cash register.

From a work perspective, I cannot tell you how many times I run into folks who get paid good money and do basically nothing but walk around the halls with a pen and clipboard to look busy. Most of the time they are the guys who join conference calls just to do some saber rattling so it looks like they know what they are talking about and have skin in the game when you know damn well they could care less about any of it.

I take pride in my work and what I do. I want to do it better and more efficiently than my peers which seems to not be the norm. I like to learn new things that not only help me, but bolter the resume for future opportunities as well as help make my team more efficient with more of us knowing how to do each others job so I am not the only one who knows how it all works(Lottery/Bus Factor). Most of my peers would rather keep their heads down and remain anonymous, in their silos and do "just enough" to continue to be on the payroll.

Its become all about how to remain employed and do as little possible for the paycheck, especially in the corporate world.
Its sickening and is alot of the reason why I am moving closer to just stepping on a ledge with my own business. I am tired of working for someone else and being the only one who gives a damn.

And then there are those folks who are not lazy, they are just complete idiots and should be wearing crash helmets to work. That's a rant for another day.

/rant off :fro:

Amen to all of that, especially the helmets.

IMO there's nothing more dangerous than a hardworking idiot in over their head.

Life's hard, get a helmet.