Death of the generalist

[GHBWNY]

So this attitude that I, and some others, have seems to have mostly died off with the baby boomers as far as I can tell (I am in my early 40's).
So what do you think? Am I just being hypercritical? Is the entire first-world evolving into specialists at the expense of everything else or is a phase that will reverse itself? Are people juts scared to jump in with both feet?

I think you have somewhat over-generalized based upon your personal experience. I am a baby-boomer and I have always done, and still do, everything for myself within my mental and physical capabilities. Being self-sufficient is the way I was brought up. Therefore, I always expected that I would do for myself and my family whatever I could, and whatever I couldn't do, I'd hire out. I used to work on all my vehicles, right down to major engine work. I have done decades of remodeling, built houses, done plumbing, electrical and HVAC, etc., etc. --- and still do. What keeps me going is the desire to learn and to accomplish something. Nowadays, if you watch a game show where they ask the contestants what they do for living, you'll rarely see someone who is a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc.. It's usually something associated with spending the day in front of a computer. That said, it doesn't discount the same sense of desire and accomplishment that I get from what I do. Techno-electronic challenges pretty much leave me in the dust, which is why God sent me an IT son-in-law. But anything I can literally put my hands on, I will attempt to do. I know my limitations, but they don't limit me to trying.

The trends you bring up are all due to the natural progression of society. But I believe there is still room for the new alongside the old without the need to compete or blend.

 

[passedpawn]

Funny...I have a free garage DOOR in my driveway (thanks CL) because the 1950's fiberglass one has been incapable of supporting an opener for 5 years. I have NO idea how to install a new door on my old track but it does not look like rocket science. I have met a few overhead door installers...this cannot be that complex.

I would never wind up an overhead torsion spring. I had one bust once, looked into buying a new one and the unbelievable danger of a mishap while winding, and thought better of doing it myself. I've put up a couple of new openers, but not the doors.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I would never wind up an overhead torsion spring. I had one bust once, looked into buying a new one and the unbelievable danger of a mishap while winding, and thought better of doing it myself. I've put up a couple of new openers, but not the doors.

I plan to re-use the existing extension spring which has safety cables in it already...cause I put them in after I realized they were not there.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I think you have somewhat over-generalized based upon your personal experience. I am a baby-boomer and I have always done, and still do, everything for myself within my mental and physical capabilities. Being self-sufficient is the way I was brought up. Therefore, I always expected that I would do for myself and my family whatever I could, and whatever I couldn't do, I'd hire out. I used to work on all my vehicles, right down to major engine work. I have done decades of remodeling, built houses, done plumbing, electrical and HVAC, etc., etc. --- and still do. What keeps me going is the desire to learn and to accomplish something. Nowadays, if you watch a game show where they ask the contestants what they do for living, you'll rarely see someone who is a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc.. It's usually something associated with spending the day in front of a computer. That said, it doesn't discount the same sense of desire and accomplishment that I get from what I do. Techno-electronic challenges pretty much leave me in the dust, which is why God sent me an IT son-in-law. But anything I can literally put my hands on, I will attempt to do. I know my limitations, but they don't limit me to trying.

The trends you bring up are all due to the natural progression of society. But I believe there is still room for the new alongside the old without the need to compete or blend.

I do not doubt I over-generalized. That said, I am one of those guys that spends his life in front of a computer.

But I go back to...do you know this (in my opinion) vast majority of folks that believe they cannot do for themselves simple things around the house or on their car (say brake pad replacement)? Where do you think this belief came from...some have said laziness while I think it is at least partially our social make-up convincing us that things are too hard? Sure, it is new and different for most but is actually hard?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

so I avoid ultra-flammable gases

Then remember the appropriate room temp rest for Lagers lest thee be smitten with explosive gas the day after enjoying that double-bock...not that I would know. Yeast variant specific of course.

 

[Beesnbeer]

Having someone do things for us makes us feel rich! Plus, your hands stay soft and clean!

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

We live in a society where the vast majority of people feel the world owes them, in spite of the fact that they've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Our government fosters that belief and encourages it. I call it the Nanny State. Government takes you by the hand, leads you through live; telling you what to think, do and say, with absolutely no accountability for yourself or your actions. People that can do for themselves are viewed as out of the norm. Why do you think so many people who profess to be 'Tolerant Progressive' or 'Tolerant Liberal' loathe those of us who identify as Conservative? I think deep down inside they know they will never be half the man that those of us who can pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and do things ourselves already are.

 

[Zuljin]

Depends on what it costs to have done, or have undone and redone if I screw it up, what are the other consequences of screwing it up, and what I have tools or money for.

Change my transmission filter, fluid and pan gasket? Yes. Swap out another transmission? Not again. My wife and I painted our house. That does not qualify us to work on the Sistine Chapel. I'll nurse myself back from a cold, but I won't try at home brain surgery.

I have a job. It's one that requires me to have multiple skills. From machines to microorganisms, Operators do it all. That job takes time. 40+ hours a week. There are only so many 40 hours in a week. When I don't have the 40 hours, someone else who spends their 40 doing the thing I need gets hired to do it.

And I can hire them because I have the skills to earn that universal tool; money. That's good for me, and for the people who get hired. Sure, we give up some general skills to earn that money, but we get pretty good at the specific, and that's important these days. For many of us, our jobs are becoming more technical and involved. Us muck rakers use microscopes these days. We get paid better for it, too.

Fact is, no man is an island. We should each be able to do a lot for ourselves, but we can't do it all.

I don't believe Americans don't do for themselves. The kid across the street was chopping firewood today, and we live in the burbs. My friend made a highchair for his kids out of PVC pipe. Places from Ace to Hobby Lobby to O'Reilly's don't stay in business from Americans not doing for themselves.

 

[thunderwagn]

While I agree with most of what's said here, I'm also at a point in my life where I'm able to do things but choose not to...brake pads for example. There are plenty things that I've 'been there done that' and am at point financially where I would just as soon let someone else do some things so I can get on with things that I would much rather do. Like brew
It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I can't. It's just that I don't want or necessarily have to anymore.

 

[ajdelange]

FYI, NG is no harder than plumbing and easier than electrical (and let's be honest, single phase electrical is easy). Only special tool required, a spray bottle of soapy water.

3ø isn't difficult if you can remember the square root of 3.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

We live in a society where the vast majority of people feel the world owes them, in spite of the fact that they've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Our government fosters that belief and encourages it. I call it the Nanny State. Government takes you by the hand, leads you through live; telling you what to think, do and say, with absolutely no accountability for yourself or your actions. People that can do for themselves are viewed as out of the norm. Why do you think so many people who profess to be 'Tolerant Progressive' or 'Tolerant Liberal' loathe those of us who identify as Conservative? I think deep down inside they know they will never be half the man that those of us who can pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and do things ourselves already are.

I realize it happens no matter what, but was not aiming at a political discussion so I will assume this was a sociological statement.

 

[Michigan_Wolfman]

Yeah, pretty much a sociological statement.

 

[Bobby_M]

I spent my 20's and 30's learning every DIY I could possibly get my hands on. I guess it even goes back to my teens because I rebuilt an Oldmobile 400 big block engine for my first car when I was 16. Now that I'm turning 40, I literally don't have the time to hit all the repairs I need to get done. That's where you start looking at your own earning potential and compare it to the cost of the specialist and decide what cost more. You can't just look at what you'll be charged. There's also the time involved in arranging for quotes, getting screwed on appointments, and the occasional call back for shoddy work. That's all time spent.

I never looked down on people that pay professionals because they were too busy to do it themselves (good thing because I'd be a retroactive hypocrite). I'd like to someday be so financially setup to decide whether I feel like tackling a project or not with neither cost nor time being a factor in that decision. In a way I guess I feel like I've paid my dues in DIY.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

And I can hire them because I have the skills to earn that universal tool; money. That's good for me, and for the people who get hired. Sure, we give up some general skills to earn that money, but we get pretty good at the specific, and that's important these days. For many of us, our jobs are becoming more technical and involved. Us muck rakers use microscopes these days. We get paid better for it, too.

Fact is, no man is an island. We should each be able to do a lot for ourselves, but we can't do it all.

I don't believe Americans don't do for themselves. The kid across the street was chopping firewood today, and we live in the burbs. My friend made a highchair for his kids out of PVC pipe. Places from Ace to Hobby Lobby to O'Reilly's don't stay in business from Americans not doing for themselves.

On the first point, I so wish I could do this more. I earn as well...more than I ever expected (but have slowly learned I might deserve). I can pay for those things I loath. About 1/2 the time this works out. About 1/2 the time it ends in tragedy as I expect them to shop up on time, do a job and clean up after themselves. If any of those do not happen, have I really gained anything?

No man is an island..very true. I cannot make the gas to go in that car/truck I drive...even if I do work at the refinery. I have no intention of growing the barley and malting it (though I think I could figure the latter out and know how to do the former...badly).

It is AWESOME that the kid across the street is splitting wood. gives a body hope.

 

[atoughram]

You all wouldn't believe how hard it is to find to find younger qualified machinery maintenance folks. Everyone wants a white collar job, not a great paying blue collar job. We have young people with a Masters degree making minimum wage, but its hard to find many who want to get greasy for $40/hr.

I've slapped mud onto sheetrock, rebuilt countless engines, aligned machinery, wired houses, plumbed NG, and wound dozens of torsion springs on garage doors. None of it is that hard, most anyone could do it all. I think folks throw up there hands and wont even try because they think it's too complicated or they don't want to learn a new skill.

Someone mentioned watching YouTube and then being an armchair expert - I'm going to tell you about the last car I worked on. I changed the struts on my daughters Toyota. I was a bit leery on compressing the springs and taking the struts apart.

It was easy

and YouTube helped out immensely...

Dont discount it.

 

[thunderwagn]

I don't discount youtube. It's helped me immensely as well, but being a tradesman...by trade youtube might get you by, but knowledge and experience make a trade. I've bailed many a customer out who thought they could do something on their own, only to find out they've gotten in over their head, but also made matters worse and more expensive.

 

[Zekk]

Whenever I try to DIY something it goes like this:

See a lot of examples, think I can do it.
Try to do it, don't have the right tools for the job, too cheap to buy them.
Forge ahead without the right tools, comes out like absolute ****, get extremely pissed and make it worse.
Hire someone else.

As far as I can tell that's the American Way™.

I sometimes even think I have the right tools. Nope, every time I try to fix something I make it worse. But hey, I did fix my leaky shower knob. Took several trips to Home Depot, but probably saved $100. Plus saved some water for the drought.

 

[BadDeacon]

I guess it all boils down to the general knowledge of your limits and how things work (which most people now don't have). Then making the call if you want to "fix or dealing w it."

I guess a bunch of us now work a job that is button clicking and service oriented and not fulfilling the making things with your own two hands which is why we as Brewers like making our systems and stands and showing them off.[emoji482][emoji482][emoji482]

 

[Onkel_Udo]

You all wouldn't believe how hard it is to find to find younger qualified machinery maintenance folks. Everyone wants a white collar job, not a great paying blue collar job. We have young people with a Masters degree making minimum wage, but its hard to find many who want to get greasy for $40/hr.

When I worked a job in WA, the Pipe Fitters and Iron Workers Union apprentices...all Polish or Russian. The younger Journeyman...in their 40's so they kind of had no choice.

I remember my guidance counselor 25 years ago. If your SAT's qualified you for a junior college, trades were never discussed.

Do not get m started on MANDITORY organized higher education. I have the required degrees. I learned nothing in college. Self study, on the job training and common sense...these are also my continuing education to this day.

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't discount youtube. It's helped me immensely as well, but being a tradesman...by trade youtube might get you by, but knowledge and experience make a trade. I've bailed many a customer out who thought they could do something on their own, only to find out they've gotten in over their head, but also made matters worse and more expensive.

Without getting in over my head a few hundred times, I would have never learned anything. The can do attitude is mostly positive even when you pay for the lessons.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I can fix anything. Are there some things that would take longer? Absolutely. I don't know how to weld. If someone took a little time to show me the pitfalls and the tricks to do it right, with some practice, I'd be able to weld with the best of them. I have the knack. I think a lot of us are drawn to this hobby and hobbies like this, because we have the knack. But before we all pat ourselves on the back for being so awesome, remember there also has to be people to do the paperwork. Maybe some of us are paper pushers by choice or by trade, but if I had to do as much paperwork as some people in this world, I would need to not have any guns in my house.

 

[pcbandit]

I'm 26 and like you feel like my generation as forgotten how to use there hands for anything besides holding phones! It always frustrates me when people act like they have to pay someone to do basic repairs on vehicles or around the house. I find it quite satisfying building things with my hands. I make cast nets when I have some spare time

 

[Zuljin]

Hey! I'm YouTube certified! That's saved me, and a lot of things I've worked on, from a lot of greif.

And that proves more that Americans are doing for themselves. I've watched some pro videos on the YouTubes, and I've watched a lot of DIY guys who took the time to film their own projects.

As for not learning in college, man, to this day I take classes related to my own job, and still learn things. Maybe you mean you didn't learn anything related directly to your job in college. I can see that happening. But Shirley you learned something of value?

On that note- votech schools.

 

[Zuljin]

Oh, and to clarify an earlier post, we are not spraying the soapy water on the single phase. ;p

 

[Onkel_Udo]

On that note- votech schools.

AMEN! Taught me to stick metal together with 'lectricity. Adult continuing education classes taught to do stained glass.

No, I really learned very little in college outside of business law, consumer behavior and C++. I had a good high school, spent my senior year in a German Gynasium and, as mentioned before, had both parents as educators. I also worked from age 9 on all the way through college. My BS taught me little I had not learned elsewhere before or during college. I still have an unending thirst for knowledge and indulge it as often as possible.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Oh, and to clarify an earlier post, we are not spraying the soapy water on the single phase. ;p

That's not how you look for leaks?

 

[passedpawn]

3ø isn't difficult if you can remember the square root of 3.

Not hard if you remember what year Geo Washington was born

 

[MaddBaggins]

Good for him!

P.S. The reason dad and I felled trees and cut wood was in theory to heat the house but in reality it was an excuse to have 11-14 Saturdays a year of us spending time together...took until I was 30 to get that one. That and splitting wood was another of his methods of staying in shape without "exercising".

Splitting wood is good exercise and therapeutic in a way.

 

[passedpawn]

I spent my 20's and 30's learning every DIY I could possibly get my hands on. I guess it even goes back to my teens because I rebuilt an Oldmobile 400 big block engine for my first car when I was 16. Now that I'm turning 40, I literally don't have the time to hit all the repairs I need to get done. That's where you start looking at your own earning potential and compare it to the cost of the specialist and decide what cost more. You can't just look at what you'll be charged. There's also the time involved in arranging for quotes, getting screwed on appointments, and the occasional call back for shoddy work. That's all time spent.

I never looked down on people that pay professionals because they were too busy to do it themselves (good thing because I'd be a retroactive hypocrite). I'd like to someday be so financially setup to decide whether I feel like tackling a project or not with neither cost nor time being a factor in that decision. In a way I guess I feel like I've paid my dues in DIY.

I agree. It's even worse when you're a consultant working from home with unlimited work. Every hour you spend on the roof or yard or cars is another $$ you could have earned.

But like all hobbies, DIY is rewarding in a way you can't put a price on. In the USMC, we had these stupid obstacle courses they called Confidence Courses. There was no real tactical usefulness to walking on a beam high above a lake. But doing so instilled a feeling of pride and confidence and invincibility. DIY at home is similar.

Another thing for DADS: when you're raising kids, there's a great ideal that is taught when our kids see pops fixing the plumbing or building a gocart or fixing the car or mending a fence. Especially for boys, it builds the character that I consider crucial in creating men from boys. I'll include daughters here too, though my daughter is not a builder.

 

[TheMadKing]

100% agree. I'm 29 and feel confident that I could live totally off the grid without another human for help save medical issues.

I know I can do it because I have. I grew up in BFE. Didn't have running water for 2 years, didn't have electricity for 2 years, used an outhouse until I was 16.

We cut our own wood, grew our own food, slaughtered our own meat, remodeled our house, and rarely went to town for anything.

I now work at a nuclear reactor, brew beer, play guitar, rock and mountain climb, teach students, I can weld, program in C++, machine metal and wood, fix electronics, fix mechanical issues, and 1000 other things.

Every single day I'm blown away by the helplessness of my peers. I frequently wonder how most people figure out tying their shoes because if the total lack of sense, and unwillingness to learn new things.

Honestly I think it all comes down to fear. People are afraid of what they don't know, so they never learn it, and the less they know, the more they are afraid. It's a compounding problem. Every day at work people ask me how I learned how to do things and my reply is always the same, "I tried and failed until I didn't."