DC Area Group Buy #10

[IslandLizard]

Add me on:

10# Crisp Crystal 60L 25 kg (55 lb) CRI1036

[...]

Added 10# Crisp C60.

I'll get on the new caraaroma split:

5# caraaroma

Actually you're starting the second CA split. The first one has filled already.
5# CA for you. 50# to go...

 

[IslandLizard]

I mentioned this in the #9 thread.

Anyone else want to buy a pint of Phosphoric Acid?
I have 3 more pints to sell. To be distributed on Sept. 6 at GB #9.

$6 a pint, with bottle.

 

[joshindc]

I mentioned this in the #9 thread.

Anyone else want to buy a pint of Phosphoric Acid?
I have 3 more pints to sell. To be distributed on Sept. 6 at GB #9.

$6 a pint, with bottle.

What's the benefit of Phosphoric over Lactic Acid?

 

[res291que]

Guessing you need a ph meter if using acid ? What are people using it for to control ph in the mash?


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[stonebrewer]

Guessing you need a ph meter if using acid ? What are people using it for to control ph in the mash?


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Right on both accounts. Proper mash PH helps limit tannin extraction as the mash is going to be naturally alkaline... Here's a quote from BYO:

"The pH of the mash affects the activity of enzymes and is critical for the amylases (a family enzymes) responsible for saccharification (conversion of malt starch into fermentable sugars, particularly maltose) and liquification. Different enzymes required in the mash function at different optimum pH levels, but a happy medium is achieved between pH 5.2 and 5.5. This means healthy yeast, which also perform well at a pH of about 5.5. As the yeast ferment the wort, pH drops and creates a more and more inhospitable environment for bacteria. Achieving the proper mash pH will also significantly affect hop extraction rate in the boil, facilitate proper protein precipitation, clarification of the wort, and color pick-up, and ultimately affect the flavor of the beer. "


Sounds important for making better beer, right?

Take it from me, if you are going to fool with acid, there are a number of precautions:

* get protective eye and hand ware
* add a little, test, add a little, test, repeat until you hit your PH goal...little steps are critical!
* get a quality meter - I use a digital one from HM Digital I got off Amazon - and make sure you calibrate it each time before you brew

You can also use an acidified malt instead of acid directly.

 

[stonebrewer]

What's the benefit of Phosphoric over Lactic Acid?

Lactic acid can cause "off flavors" so phosphoric is preferred by people like Gordon Strong over lactic.

 

[IslandLizard]

What's the benefit of Phosphoric over Lactic Acid?

Lactic acid can cause "off flavors" so phosphoric is preferred by people like Gordon Strong over lactic.

+1 ^

But you can use either. A pint of 80% phosphoric will last a long, long time. First you'd dilute some of it to 20% or 10% and a few teaspoons of the diluted acid per 5 gallons should correct the pH. A pH meter comes in handy, although an online calculator can be used if you know your water chemistry.

Lactic acid has a lower taste threshold than phosphoric. In small quantities, you can't taste either, but if you need to use larger amounts, lactic shows a distinct flavor, akin to sour milk. Phosphoric doesn't and is therefore used in sodas.

In practice, you'll rarely cross the taste threshold of lactic when used in the mash. If you find you need to use larger quantities of acid something is wrong with your water composition, likely high alkalinity and that should be combat first by dilution or complete substitution with RO, DI, or distilled water, unless you're trying to mimic a historic water profile like Burton.

Acidulated malt contains lactic acid, naturally produced by lactobacillus. That stuff is pricey.

 

[sweetcell]

Acidulated malt contains lactic acid, naturally produced by lactobacillus. That stuff is pricey.

i typically need 20 cents worth of acidulated for my batches (to be more precise, i need to replace a portion of 2-row with acidulated, and typically that upgrade costs about $0.20).

to me it's worth 20 cents to not have to deal with eye protection and gloves, dedicated containers, putting on long/protective clothes on a hot day, carefully measure & dilute, etc.

but YMMV, and i wouldn't doubt that i'm missing other advantages of using acid instead of acidulated.

 

[masonsjax]

That stuff isn't as dangerous as all that. I tasted a drop undiluted, it's very tangy, i wouldn't recommend it, but it didn't burn a hole in my finger or tongue. Starsan is essentially the same thing, with added detergent. I don't wear gloves when mixing Starsan either.

Other advantages are acidifying sparge water if you need to.

 

[IslandLizard]

i typically need 20 cents worth of acidulated for my batches (to be more precise, i need to replace a portion of 2-row with acidulated, and typically that upgrade costs about $0.20).

to me it's worth 20 cents to not have to deal with eye protection and gloves, dedicated containers, putting on long/protective clothes on a hot day, carefully measure & dilute, etc.

but YMMV, and i wouldn't doubt that i'm missing other advantages of using acid instead of acidulated.

The main advantages of using acid over acidulated malt is you can acidify your sparge water, which I always do and at different rates than mash water. See Bru'n Water. You can also add it to the mash directly to tweak or correct the pH when it's too high.

Although it depends on the brewing water and grist composition, using acidulated malt at a rate of 1% of the total grist will drop the pH by 0.1, typically.

So for example, if the pH of your (small) test mash comes out at 5.8, substituting 4% of your base malt with acidulated malt should drop it to 5.4. On a 12# grist bill, 4% equals 7.7oz of acidulated (1.9oz for each percent). And yeah, that's about $0.10 more than the base malt.

Alternatively you can add to your mash water:
5.8ml (1.1 tsp) of 88% Lactic Acid, or
4.8ml (1 tsp) of 80% Phosphoric Acid, or
28ml* of 20% Phosphoric Acid, or
61ml* of 10% Phosphoric Acid.

* Don't ask me why the acid amounts needed don't scale proportionally with reduced concentration, it puzzles me too. I grabbed the numbers off Brewersfriend's chemistry calculator to match the pH for the different dilutions. Bru'n water gives similar results.

Your sparge water can be spiked with minerals and acid at different rates, or the same.

 

[stonebrewer]

OK, now let's get back to ordering grains...

 

[IslandLizard]

OK, now let's get back to ordering grains...

What's the rush?

 

[res291que]

This whole messing with water chemistry is intriguing, but way way way over my head


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[sikkingj]

Long time lurker, finally able to organize and get my order in the next group buy.

This is my first time using Castle does anyone one have a preference between Chateau or Weyermann? Likewise any preference between Crisp and Muntons Maris Otter?

Thanks.



1 x CAS1002 Château Pilsen 2-Row 25 Kg (55 Lb.)
1 x CRI1001 Crisp Finest Maris Otter Ale 25 kg (55 lb)
2 x RAH1002 Rahr Standard 2-Row 50 lb

 

[stonebrewer]

Long time lurker, finally able to organize and get my order in the next group buy.

This is my first time using Castle does anyone one have a preference between Chateau or Weyermann? Likewise any preference between Crisp and Muntons Maris Otter?

Thanks.

Have not used Chateau but I am very happy with Weyermann malts. Consistent malt and awesome packaging.

 

[IslandLizard]

Long time lurker, finally able to organize and get my order in the next group buy.

This is my first time using Castle does anyone one have a preference between Chateau or Weyermann? Likewise any preference between Crisp and Muntons Maris Otter?

Thanks.

1 x CAS1002 Château Pilsen 2-Row 25 Kg (55 Lb.)
1 x CRI1001 Crisp Finest Maris Otter Ale 25 kg (55 lb)
2 x RAH1002 Rahr Standard 2-Row 50 lb

I've put you down for these on the spreadsheet (Order Tab). If you need to change them or add more for whatever reason, let us know. Your order will be finalized when you pay for them, at the end of the buy.

Can you pm me your email address please. Thanks!

 

[masonsjax]

The #9 thread is closed so I'm posting here. I'll be picking up CaptainAl's grain for him on Saturday.

 

[IslandLizard]

The #9 thread is closed so I'm posting here. I'll be picking up CaptainAl's grain for him on Saturday.

It's not closed as in "no additional posting possible." But so noted.
Thank you!

 

[reddskinnfan]

Speaking of which, are you still good to get mine Sven?

 

[funnycreature]

Speaking of which, are you still good to get mine Sven?

Sure do! Had to convince SWMBO but we're good bro! When do you want me to drop it off? I could do it the following Monday (9/8)

 

[masonsjax]

It's not closed as in "no additional posting possible." But so noted.
Thank you!

Well it has an icon that says "closed" and I was unable to post an additional comment.

 

[CaptainAl]

Please put me down for 10#'s of CaraAroma, didn't work out on the last split.
Sorry I am going to miss the festivities on Saturday. Masonsjax is going to grab my 1 x 2-Row

 

[IslandLizard]

Well it has an icon that says "closed" and I was unable to post an additional comment.

Man, you're right. That's the first time I've seen a truly closed thread here.

I always grin seeing a new post to a thread that hasn't seen posts for 2 or 3 years.

I guess we'll talk business here then, instead.

 

[IslandLizard]

Please put me down for 10#'s of CaraAroma, didn't work out on the last split.
Sorry I am going to miss the festivities on Saturday. Masonsjax is going to grab my 1 x 2-Row

Added 10# of CA for you. 40# to go on that split.
Sorry you'll be missing that splits party.

 

[stonebrewer]

Well it has an icon that says "closed" and I was unable to post an additional comment.

Odd! I did not close it nor can I open it back up. Looks like the mods are doing this as I see that same lock icon on several other group grain buys, though not all of them...

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Interested. Please pm me if still open


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[masonsjax]

Please read the first post of this thread carefully. It explains all the details on how to participate in the buys. Welcome to the group!

 

[IslandLizard]

Interested. Please pm me if still open

Looking at your listed location, please note, this buy is for the (larger) DC area, and Newark, NJ seems a bit out of range. Pickup is in DC.

Please read the first post of this thread carefully. It explains all the details on how to participate in the buys. Welcome to the group!

+1 on this.

 

[funnycreature]

I think I need more DME; my starters are [literally] eating that stuff up!
10# of 3400C Muntons Extra Light

Thanks!

 

[IslandLizard]

I think I need more DME; my starters are [literally] eating that stuff up!
10# of 3400C Muntons Extra Light

Thanks!

New split started on Muntons Extra Light DME.
10# for you.

I needed 7 liters of wort for various starters, so I increased a brew's recipe size. Combined enough of 2nd and 3rd runnings to get 1.032 starter wort. Mash calculations were, hmm, complex so to say.

I guess after lautering the main mash, one could add a few pounds of 2-row to some or all of the already hot grist, add new strike water and do another mash at 148°F while boiling the main recipe. No time wasted, and almost free starter wort.