Dark day in the brewery...

[TheMan]

So me and Yeast Infection (another member here) had 20 gallons to bottle this weekend. Went over to his place to start the process and we popped open the first bucket to see and smell what we thought would be our glorious new wheat beer...boy were we surprised. Mold. The entire top layer was covered. It smelled horrendous.

We have never had an infection before so this was a shocker. We moved to our other beer, which was a 15 gallon batch in 3 seperate buckets. Particles of mold in each, also with a very sour and just disgusting smell.

This is the first time we have used buckets to ferment. We are thinking this is the culprit, since as I said, we've never had an infection before. None of our methods have changed so we cannot think how this could be. Anyone have any ideas?

Nonetheless, we had to dump 20 gallons of homebrew. A moment of silence didn't even feel good enough...

 

[TipsyDragon]

well the obvious is poor sanitation. maybe you guys just missed a step this time around or something. might need to use fresh StarSan, it only lasts so long. is it possible that the buckets where scratched before you used them? those scratches could hide mold and bacteria. did you sanitize the bucket lids? don't always think of that but its possible. how did you aerate your wart? you should always use an inline air filter to prevent accidentally sucking up mold/bacteria and blowing it into your wart.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

I've used buckets tons w/o any off flavors or issues, but they were new buckets w/o any scratches etc. They were sanitized w/ iodophor as well. I'd agree w/ Tipsy... Its more likely either you didn't quite sanitize them right, or you didn't get new enough ones and they had scratches that the sanitizing agents couldn't get into... leaving behind some nasties...

 

[TheMan]

none of us recall missing anything. The buckets were brand new from Morebeer.com...so there should not be a single scratch on them. I remember sanitizing buckets and lids. Starsan is only 2 months old, should be fine. We just used our wort spoon to aerate, after sanitizing each time.

Our thought is that there was an air leak somewhere. That the buckets are not sealing airtight. They sat for 4 weeks, 3 of them were secondaries.

We've done 60 gallons prior to this, so we have our process down and have never had an issue. I can't say accidents will never happen, but I just do not see where.

 

[weirdboy]

Was there a draft or wind where you were transferring to the fermenters or cooling? You could just have mold in the environment and it blew into the wort during transfer.

 

[TheMan]

No draft. The transfer was done indoors. The 4th one was only primary. So that leads me to believe that if we did something wrong, it was before the secondary since all 4 were infected

 

[Grinder12000]

What did you use to sanitize and what was the process. Odd that all 3 or 4 would go belly up.

Sad - I just dumped about 120 bottles done the drain from a bottling side infection. Spigot was hiding gunk for I GUESS 3 batches (3 weeks) before I found it.

 

[TheMan]

This is the sanitizer...Five star Iodine Sanitizer. It has not failed us once so far in 12 + batches.
IO Star Iodine Sanitizer 32 oz | MoreBeer

To sanitize I filled the buckets with water and sanitizer, then i stick my hand in to scrub/rub the sides to make sure it's good and coated for a couple minutes. Rub the lids down with sanitizer. The airlocks and bungs get a nice long soak in a bucket as well. Airlock is then filled with sanitizer.

It's worth noting, there was mold in three of the 4 airlocks. Maybe that helps diagnose? The only thing different between this brew and previous is the use of plastic buckets as fermenters. We've always used glass carboys.

 

[quickerNu]

I have always used buckets for primary and never had an infection. how did you transfer cooled wort to the buckets? I'll bet your nasties were picked up there....

 

[carnevoodoo]

I wouldn't blame the buckets either. Was it like green mold or something more like a white film? You say it is sour? It could be a lactic or an acetic infection.

 

[TheMan]

White film. It was very sour. I tasted it before dumping, just to be sure. It was the most foul tasting thing I've ever had...and I've eaten some nasty **** in my day lol.

 

[phatuna]

Did you take a picture?

 

[COLObrewer]

You said there was mold in the airlocks that were filled with sanitizer solution? That's one tough bug.

Was the wort cooled to the same temperature where the fermenters were stored before the airlocks were installed? I've had airlock fluid sucked into the fermentor before fermentation starts just due to cooling of the wort.

That's the only thing I can think of might cause this, but not if it's sanitizer solution.

 

[TheMan]

Seeing all your posts really made me think back and I think I may know the cause. I don't think we properly cleaned the buckets when transferring. We had another beer that was moved into a glass carboy that day, the carboy had been sitting clean for weeks. That beer turned out fantastic. Then the bucket that was fermenting the fantastic one was rinsed out and sanitized. I don't believe we actually used soap and water to clean it. Just hosed it out, sanitized, then racked into it.

Sound like the culprit?

 

[carnevoodoo]

White film + sour really screams acetobacter to me. I would blame fruit flies before I would blame your bucket. I don't really think that what you did (not washing with soap and water) would have done it. I mean, the bucket obviously looked clean enough to you, so I doubt that was much of a concern when you put beer in there.

 

[Couevas]

Just another hypothetical.....

You said 3 of the 4 vessels were secondaries?
How old are your lines and racking cane/auto-siphon used in transferring? Did you, by any chance, miss a step in cleaning and sanitizing those?

-C

 

[TheMan]

couevas, There is always the chance, but I don't think so. And since all 4 were affected I am thinking that the secondary thing is not part of the issue.

Also, the first beer we transferred that day, to the glass carboy, has since been bottled and is fantastic. So that one would have been sour as well if it had something to do with the secondary racking process.

The one thing that is in common with all 4 is the buckets, and the fact that they were not cleaned with soap and water. They 'looked' clean after hosing them out, which doesn't mean they were.

 

[lmg95]

This is the sanitizer...Five star Iodine Sanitizer. It has not failed us once so far in 12 + batches.
IO Star Iodine Sanitizer 32 oz | MoreBeer

The airlocks and bungs get a nice long soak in a bucket as well. Airlock is then filled with sanitizer.

It's worth noting, there was mold in three of the 4 airlocks. Maybe that helps diagnose?

That would sound to me like the sanitizer is not working properly. If there was mold in the sanitizer then it can't be sanitary. Meaning it's either too old or too dilute and regardless of how well you followed your procedures if the sanitizer didn't work right you were just spinning your wheels.

 

[-TH-]

did you use an autosiphon on all 4? There's an area down near the end that doesn't get wiped by the rubber piece on the cane and it doesn't get cleaned very easy. Someone here once had infection issues due to that.

 

[greenleer]

That would sound to me like the sanitizer is not working properly. If there was mold in the sanitizer then it can't be sanitary.

I have to agree here. You said the StarSan was 2 months old. But do you know what its pH level was? StarSan's pH needs to stay at or below 3 for it to be an effective sanitizer.

 

[TheMan]

I'm not sure we replaced the starsan inside the airlock when moving to the secondary. Would that cause this? I think as long as there is water in it, it would be fine, no?

I've used the starsan in a batch since then, and went three weeks in a glass carboy, no infection. It's been bottled and is fine. So I can't see the starsan being bad.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

StarSan has to have a shelf life of longer than 2 months???????? If not, then you'd have to do some serious brewing in order to justfy buying the 32 oz bottle lol

I brewed these batches with the O.P.

Additional note regarding the buckets and fermentation.

When fermenting in these suspect buckets, after the first 5-8 days it appeared that there was NO pressure in the airlock. The cone is just sitting on the bottom and is not suspended in the liquid. I am not sure if this is normal with buckets due to the increased head space and flexibility of the plastic lid? This is what contributed to my theory on the lids sealing poorly or not being air tight.

I have left beers in carboys for weeks and then secondaried in carboys for weeks and have noticed that up until bottling there is always some pressure in the airlock. It may not be bubbling but the cone is at least suspended and not resting on the bottom.

 

[Reedwalker]

Im pretty sure they meant 2 months after diluting the Star-San. Not sitting in concentrated form on the shelf.

 

[lmg95]

two months already mixed is a long time... i don't think it lasts more than a few days if its already been diluted.

OP do you mean 2 months since you bought the 32oz bottle or two months since you mixed up a useable amount to sanitize??

 

[TheMan]

2 months since the bottle was purchased. I wouldn't let it sit in water that long.

For this batch it was fresh from the 32oz. bottle. At most, we save it for a week if we know for sure we are needing it that soon after. Guess that eliminates that possibility?

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

No..... it was not diluted for 2 months. It was diluted right before brewing and sanitizing equipment.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

The day that I can't afford a fresh ounce of star san for a batch is the day I give up this hobby lol

 

[phatuna]

I think that "yeast infection" should clearly change his online name, that is bad karma.

 

[carnevoodoo]

two months already mixed is a long time... i don't think it lasts more than a few days if its already been diluted.

If you mix Star San in distilled water it can last much, much longer. I keep mine for a month to a month and a half with no issues. I have ph strips to make sure the levels are correct, and when it gets above 3, I throw it out. It'll also turn cloudy if it is not good anymore.

 

[Grinder12000]

Were you brewing a Lazy Mutt clone? - that would explain the skanky-ness!! LOL

Sorry - little humor there for a tragic day.