Danstar London ESB Dry Ale Yeast - Anyone use it yet?

[rkzi]

Just used this yeast for the first time in a vienna fuggles smash bitter. Pitched one pack into 10 L of 1.050 wort at 20 C and put it into swamp cooler with ~15 C water on saturday evening. Judging by airlock activity, the main fermentation was mostly done overnight, whereas Fermentis' yeast usually starts to show activity on the next day morning. Today, after 48 hours from pitching, the gravity was spot on at predicted 1.017 with 65% attenuation, and although quite clean-tasting (not fruity), the sample was still cloudy. I'm probably going to keep it in primary for 2 weeks before bottling, if it decides to attenuate even further.

 

[TheMadKing]

I just used it for the first time in a sweet stout. It had very minimal krausen and airlock activity and was virtually done after 48 hours. It also was a poor attenuator with my FG stabilizing at 1.023 (OG 1.059). It's still sitting in primary for a couple more days, so I'll have a better impression on the final product after it's been in the keg for a little while.

 

[rkzi]

I just used it for the first time in a sweet stout. It had very minimal krausen and airlock activity and was virtually done after 48 hours. It also was a poor attenuator with my FG stabilizing at 1.023 (OG 1.059). It's still sitting in primary for a couple more days, so I'll have a better impression on the final product after it's been in the keg for a little while.

Your attenuation (61%) seems quite similar to mine. This strain doesn't utilize maltotriose, which is quite uncommon for a beer brewing yeast. What was your mash temp and percentage of crystals? User stpug has shared some of his numbers in a similar thread on AHA forum, and it seems that recipes with large amount of crystal malt finish with much lower attenuation:

• Best Bitter: 95% base, 3% crystal, 2% toast; 149F mash 60min, 168F mashout 10min; ferment 72F; 72% AA
• American Brown: 84% base, 11% crystal, 5% roast/toast; 149F mash 60min, 168F mashout 10min; ferment 64F for 36hrs, 72F for remainder; 65% AA
• Oatmeal Stout: 79% base, 11% crystal, 10% roast; 147F mash 60min, 158F mash 15min, 168 mashout 10min; ferment 70-72F; 64% AA

 

[TheMadKing]

Your attenuation (61%) seems quite similar to mine. This strain doesn't utilize maltotriose, which is quite uncommon for a beer brewing yeast. What was your mash temp and percentage of crystals? User stpug has shared some of his numbers in a similar thread on AHA forum, and it seems that recipes with large amount of crystal malt finish with much lower attenuation:

• Best Bitter: 95% base, 3% crystal, 2% toast; 149F mash 60min, 168F mashout 10min; ferment 72F; 72% AA
• American Brown: 84% base, 11% crystal, 5% roast/toast; 149F mash 60min, 168F mashout 10min; ferment 64F for 36hrs, 72F for remainder; 65% AA
• Oatmeal Stout: 79% base, 11% crystal, 10% roast; 147F mash 60min, 158F mash 15min, 168 mashout 10min; ferment 70-72F; 64% AA

8.5lb bonlander munich
1 lb flaked barley
12 oz crystal 60
8 oz chocolate
6 oz carafa II
4 oz roasted barley
4 oz honey malt
8 oz lactose


Mashed at 147 for 90 minutes

Considering the recipe, I think it did pretty well.

 

[rkzi]

8.5lb bonlander munich
1 lb flaked barley
12 oz crystal 60
8 oz chocolate
6 oz carafa II
4 oz roasted barley
4 oz honey malt
8 oz lactose


Mashed at 147 for 90 minutes

Considering the recipe, I think it did pretty well.

Yes, over 10% of that is poorly fermentable. Good choice on mash temp and time.

 

[20grit]

I can't say that the above attenuation of the Danstar is any worse than my experiences with the White Labs and Wyeast London strains.
I've never gotten them to attenuate much past 60%. I need to start agitating more in the early phases, or something...

 

[rkzi]

I can't say that the above attenuation of the Danstar is any worse than my experiences with the White Labs and Wyeast London strains.
I've never gotten them to attenuate much past 60%. I need to start agitating more in the early phases, or something...

You were lucky, there's a recent thread about this exact subject: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=600380

 

[kristiismean]

Okay. Going go to use it again. Twice. Starting with a. ESB. (Brewed yesterday) and then will throw something on top of it again, and take pictures and better records of temp control.

10 lbs pale 2 row
.75 lbs crystal 60
.25 lbs crystal 120

1.5 oz ek goldings 60
.25 oz fuggles 20
.25 oz ek golding 20
.25 oz fuggles 0
.25 oz ek golding 0

pitched at 68, fermenting at 68.

Next recipe will be a little higher in abv and i will try to get a good malt backbone out of it.

maybe shoot for a karben4 factory fantasy clone, or a 50/50 golden promise and wheat malt mix with amarillo and galaxy

 

[rkzi]

Bottled my bitter after two weeks in primary. Gravity was down to 1.014 and flavor was good, although there was a hint of acetaldehyde or green apple in the aroma. My fast fermentation test had a FG of 1.012-1.013 so i carbed to only 1 vol to be safe.

The fast fermentation test was just some wort taken to sanitized jar after pitching, which was covered with foil and swirled now and then. Only difference to the main batch was the swirling and the foil instead of airlock, which lead me to think if this yeast would benefit from further aeration during active fermentation.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I made an ESB last month with Windsor and I know it has a low attenuation like 62%. I added a pound of demerara. It finished at 1.014, so I was happy with getting 76% by adding sugar.

King Edward VIII Used German Hops in this ESB since he is a descendant of the Houses of Windsor & Hanover.
​

Demerara helps dry it out and adds a little caramel taste to the beer... And, ABV. :rockin:

This is common in Belgians and suggested up to 20% of fermentables to help with attenuation. I read this in "Brew Like A Monk", by Stan Hieronymus

 

[Mer-man]

Yeah, just remember to pitch yeast at a higher rate when you use so much sugar.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Yeah, just remember to pitch yeast at a higher rate when you use so much sugar.

That's right.

I didn't have to double pitch at this gravity. 1.059

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

 

[Schlenkerla]

Mr Malty

View attachment 1486909799982.jpg

 

[rkzi]

Just updating my experience with this yeast.

The apple aroma and taste went away about 5 days after bottling, I think the yeast itself tasted bit appleyish. I was bit worried how this beer would end up since the recipe was quite basic and this is quite a clean yeast, but I think it worked quite well. Now two weeks after bottling the beer tastes quite hoppy and refreshing, although it was hopped mildly (hop schedule was from Jamil's best bitter with fuggles instead of EKG). It was good idea to carbonate to only 1 vol, judging on carbonation the yeast did munch those two surplus gravity points in the bottles.

 

[kristiismean]

Good to hear rkzi

i kegged my ESB, and it smelled and tasted really good. so this yeast makes decent, although a little sweet, esb.

Then I pitched a no crystal single malt Dipa on the cake. mashed in at 149, it was in active fermentation in 4 hours, (only judging by airlock activity, which I know, and preach is not an indication of fermentation). but 7-8 bubbles a second...... it was going.

 

[rkzi]

Yea i really liked the short lag phase and fast fermentation, but then again i disliked the fact that it had not fully attenuated before bottling. I was comparing the rehydration instructions of Fermentis and Danstar, and noticed that the latter recommends higher temperature (30-35 vs 25-29 C). I wondered if this could be the reason for the faster start with this yeast (haven't used other Danstar products so don't know if they all start this fast). In my latest batch i tried to rehydrate S-04 at Danstar temp range but still it took at least 24 h for the airlock to start showing positive pressure (1 pack to 5 gal 1.060 wort).

 

[kristiismean]

rkzi, in case you missed it, I pitched right on the full yeast cake. so I have a 5 gallon starter.

with the esb it was going as normal in 24 hours.

This fermentation started monday at 8, and was done by 6pm the following day. I am going to dry hop it Sunday, late, and bottle this batch Sat morning. (I am dry hopping with 1.5 oz Citra, 1.5 oz Amarillo, 2.5 oz Galaxy, .5 oz Apollo total= 6 oz)

I have used two track Dakota M3 malt before, but usually in addition to, this one was 100% Dakota, 16 lbs, and it's decribed as having "Subtle reminders of honey, almonds and hazelnuts" which I could taste when 4 lbs was added to 9 lbs of 2 row, so am hoping those flavors come through.

Next round if this is good will have a 1/2 to 1 lbs addition of honey malt on top to bring that forward...

 

[rkzi]

Sounds nice kristiismean!

Mix of vienna and munich sounds like a good option. In my case the vienna might have needed something else on it's side since the hop amounts were not that big and this is quite a clean tasting yeast, but it was a smash after all. The beer is also not sweet at all, but instead refreshing and crisp.

Now that I think of it, I could have used this yeast also on a batch of american brown with El Dorado and Waimea hops that I'm probably bottling this weekend. I ended up using S-04 since I wanted it to have nice maltiness and good mouthfeel in addition to the big hop taste. I haven't made hoppy American styles with S-04 before but I think that others have done it with success.

And regarding the lag time, maybe I had a very fresh packet or something since it seemed to start so fast. I'll see when I use it again, I was thinking that this kind of recipe would be a good way to test different British hops. I would also like to brew a batch with Windsor just for comparison, since it seems to be quite similar in terms of attenuation and flocculation.

 

[JM-brew]

I used it on a test batch (1.5 gallons) of English golden ale. The weather was bad the day I made it and I tried boiling on the stove and couldn't get a good boil going, so my OG was low. I was shooting for a 4.5% beer and came out after fermentation to 3.92%. Mash bill was 50% marris otter, 50% pilsner and I think maybe an ounce or two of unmalted wheat by accident. That being said, I really like the finished beer. It has a good crackery/biscuity English quality, but still light and refreshing. It's been in my mini keg for a few weeks now and honestly, it's pretty clear. I'll try to put some pics up later. I'm going to try a 5 gallon batch, but so far this is my favorite English yeast.

 

[kristiismean]

Well, bottled it. It's golden, but only dropped down to 1.020.. oh well, it'll be good. Has great flavor.

 

[davidst]

I'll gladly try this yeast again on Milds or Ordinary Bitters where I want more residual sugars, but I doubt I'd ever use it on an ESB or anything with a higher gravity.

I really regret using this on a Wee Heavy, I ended up pitching White Labs 099 Super High Gravity Yeast because I read that it will finish lower in a hostile environment (hoping for the best). The original Danstar ESB yeast barely achieved 50% attenuation.

 

[rkzi]

I'll gladly try this yeast again on Milds or Ordinary Bitters where I want more residual sugars, but I doubt I'd ever use it on an ESB or anything with a higher gravity.

I really regret using this on a Wee Heavy, I ended up pitching White Labs 099 Super High Gravity Yeast because I read that it will finish lower in a hostile environment (hoping for the best). The original Danstar ESB yeast barely achieved 50% attenuation.

Just out of curiosity, what was the OG, mash temp and percentage of crystal in the grain bill? I hope that wlp099 works for you but like london esb it is rumored to not be able to utilize maltotriose.

 

[kristiismean]

First taste test. Holy crap it's going to be good, needs 5 more days... (It's only been 4 days, yeast is still the raring to go, just not below 1.020.....

 

[kristiismean]

Forgot pic

View attachment 1489022252147.jpg

 

[davidst]

Just out of curiosity, what was the OG, mash temp and percentage of crystal in the grain bill? I hope that wlp099 works for you but like london esb it is rumored to not be able to utilize maltotriose.

OG: 1.088
FG: 1.040 (and almost undrinkable).


Only 1/2 lb crystal 90, but I also took about 1 gallon of first runnings and boiled it down to about 1/4 gallon, it wasn't a thick syrup.

Yeah if wlp099 doesn't utilize maltotriose, I probably won't see much difference, I'd be very surprised if there are many simple sugars left. I'll give it a month and then keg it again.

 

[ten80]

Well, I can report that London ESB will ferment honey down to 1.000 from around 1.080 in a reasonable amount of time... interesting! the ESB yeast didn't do as well with a mixed fermentation of honey and malt extract (braggot) ended much higher at around 1.025.

In addition, the resulting mead is nice and clean. i need to compile my findings from my yeast comparison test (mead and braggot) and will update here.

 

[davidst]

OG: 1.088

FG: 1.040 (and almost undrinkable).





Only 1/2 lb crystal 90, but I also took about 1 gallon of first runnings and boiled it down to about 1/4 gallon, it wasn't a thick syrup.



Yeah if wlp099 doesn't utilize maltotriose, I probably won't see much difference, I'd be very surprised if there are many simple sugars left. I'll give it a month and then keg it again.

So I just kegged it and the wlp099 took the gravity all the way down to 1.006 (about 10-20 points more than I wanted, but now it's at least palatable and not like drinking syrup).

In the future I'll probably only use the ESB yeast on low gravity beers that I want plenty of sugars left over.

 

[rkzi]

So I just kegged it and the wlp099 took the gravity all the way down to 1.006 (about 10-20 points more than I wanted, but now it's at least palatable and not like drinking syrup).

In the future I'll probably only use the yeast on low gravity beers that I want plenty of sugars left over.

Good that WLP099 worked for you! I don't think that this yeast will necessarily leave that much sugars. With a grain bill consisting mostly of base malt and low mash temp you can get relatively dry tasting beer which still has good mouthfeel. If the carbonation would be more predictable this would probably replace US-05 for me for normal-strength beers.

 

[TallDan]

Two weeks ago I brewed a bitter and used this yeast for the first time. Simple recipe, 10lb MO, .5lb carapils, .5lb Fawcett crystal 1. Warrior (bittering) and EKG hops. Somehow messed up measuring or calculations on the mash and ended up with a very high mash temp initially (around 163F) which i corrected. Ended up with an OG of 1.048.

Hydrated and pitched the yeast into oxygenated wort and put the the fermenter in my temp controlled chamber per my usual routine. Had obvious fermentation activity within a few hours, which is faster than I typically see. A day later it was clearly going well, and at 36 hours had seemingly already finished. I ramped temp up over a couple days, then took it out of the chamber and let it sit in the house (around 70F) aiming to give the yeast some warmth and time to finish up. Saw no activity.

About a week into fermentation (a week ago) i took a gravity sample and was sad to see it at 1.020. Recalling my high initial mash temp, I couldn't be entirely surprised though. Looking around, found this thread and saw lots of reports of low attenuation and figured that I may need to pitch some more yeast or brett to get close to target FG and not have a terribly sweet beer. As I don't rush my beers, I just let it sit and figured I'd at least take another gravity sample in a few days.

About a week later brings me to this morning. Take a glance at the fermenter and see airlock activity. That seems strange, there's been no big temperature changes in the room, so I take a closer look. There's a thin (but normal loooking) krausen on the beer and it seems to be actively fermenting again.

I'm going to let this sit for at least a couple more weeks at this point. Just thought I'd share this in case anyone else is seeing this odd dormant period with this yeast. I won't rule out some sort of infection (which would explain what I'm seeing) but it seems unlikely.

 

[rkzi]

Two weeks ago I brewed a bitter and used this yeast for the first time. Simple recipe, 10lb MO, .5lb carapils, .5lb Fawcett crystal 1. Warrior (bittering) and EKG hops. Somehow messed up measuring or calculations on the mash and ended up with a very high mash temp initially (around 163F) which i corrected. Ended up with an OG of 1.048.

Hydrated and pitched the yeast into oxygenated wort and put the the fermenter in my temp controlled chamber per my usual routine. Had obvious fermentation activity within a few hours, which is faster than I typically see. A day later it was clearly going well, and at 36 hours had seemingly already finished. I ramped temp up over a couple days, then took it out of the chamber and let it sit in the house (around 70F) aiming to give the yeast some warmth and time to finish up. Saw no activity.

About a week into fermentation (a week ago) i took a gravity sample and was sad to see it at 1.020. Recalling my high initial mash temp, I couldn't be entirely surprised though. Looking around, found this thread and saw lots of reports of low attenuation and figured that I may need to pitch some more yeast or brett to get close to target FG and not have a terribly sweet beer. As I don't rush my beers, I just let it sit and figured I'd at least take another gravity sample in a few days.

About a week later brings me to this morning. Take a glance at the fermenter and see airlock activity. That seems strange, there's been no big temperature changes in the room, so I take a closer look. There's a thin (but normal loooking) krausen on the beer and it seems to be actively fermenting again.

I'm going to let this sit for at least a couple more weeks at this point. Just thought I'd share this in case anyone else is seeing this odd dormant period with this yeast. I won't rule out some sort of infection (which would explain what I'm seeing) but it seems unlikely.

I think that Windsor is also prone to do this from what Ive read, and given that its flocculation and attenuation characteristics are similar to London ESB, i wouldnt be surprised if the latter does it also. I think that few people have actually reported a slight gravity drop during extended conditioning with this yeast strain. I have no idea what causes it, but one possibility is cross-contamination with other brewers yeast since windsor and London ESB are unable to utilize maltotriose. The other yeast might come from our equipment or be already present in the package at low numbers, explaining why it takes so long.

My batch made with this yeast seems also to be slowly picking up carbonation, but luckily i have only few bottles left. I just used Windsor for the first time on a bitter, which i bottled only after one week (probably not a good decision). I carbed to only 1 vol since there was again 2 point difference between FFT and FV, lets see if it ends up higher.