Danger of Hops to Dogs

[Beerrific]

I'm starting to think this is a fake story after reading the urban legend post about the guy in Milwaukee ...

I cannot see any way a dog would eat a packet of hops. I've tasted a hop pellet, and it is not pleasant. I could see the leftover wort, but not an unsweetened pack of pellets.

Here is another report. Dogs eat all sorts of crazy stuff. One of my dogs eats dirt and rocks, they also seem to have a taste for cat $hit. So, eating a pack of hops would not surprise me.

 

[thataintchicken]

they also seem to have a taste for cat $hit. So, eating a pack of hops would not surprise me.

ok.
SWMBO's Doberman and my Cats have been together for nearly Two years.
The dog never even paid attention to the litterbox, until last week.

now, she goes right after the Cat sh*t if they have had the Fancy Feast canned stuff for supper.

freaky dog. Doesn't like hops though. Which is good I suppose.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

ok.
SWMBO's Doberman and my Cats have been together for nearly Two years.
The dog never even paid attention to the litterbox, until last week.

now, she goes right after the Cat sh*t if they have had the Fancy Feast canned stuff for supper.

freaky dog. Doesn't like hops though. Which is good I suppose.

Hey, thataintchicken, did you tell her thataintchicken?

 

[thataintchicken]

Hey, thataintchicken, did you tell her thataintchicken?

actually I told her that she had a choice.
Cat Sh*t or Kibble.

She wandered over to the corner and went to sleep.
The Cats just went into the kitchen and begged for some corned beef from my sandwich.

I live with animals.

 

[lordbeermestrength]

ok.
SWMBO's Doberman and my Cats have been together for nearly Two years.
The dog never even paid attention to the litterbox, until last week.

now, she goes right after the Cat sh*t if they have had the Fancy Feast canned stuff for supper.

freaky dog. Doesn't like hops though. Which is good I suppose.

We call the cat s#it after it's rolled in litter "almond roca." Luckily our new dog hasn't discovered this treat yet.

 

[conpewter]

Deathweed, I really like how well that explains the situation, I think that would make a good Sticky.

I grow hops and I am not concerned that my (future..) dogs will eat the plants. I will not be throwing sweet wort soaked hops on the compost pile though as I can see how that would be enticing.

 

[conpewter]

I found this interesting on the other site

By brrman
My wife is an emergency vet and she sees malignant hypothermia more than a few times a year from various foods. It all depends on the size of the dog and the amount of hops ingested. Don't wait if you know your dog has ingested hops - MH can cause brain damage and renal failure in small dogs before symptoms get extremely pronounced.

Also poisonous to dogs are grapes and raisins, onions (Hemolytic Anemia), chocolate, coffee and certain types of mushrooms. Though they are all different in their levels and types of toxicity. Raisins are very bad - my wife lost a patient (terrier) who ate 4 small school lunch-sized boxes of raisins. The owner waited 2 days after the dog started panting before she brought the dog to the hospital. The dog died about an hour after arriving...

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Deathweed, I really like how well that explains the situation, I think that would make a good Sticky.

I grow hops and I am not concerned that my (future..) dogs will eat the plants. I will not be throwing sweet wort soaked hops on the compost pile though as I can see how that would be enticing.

Thanks I tried to keep it as "understandable" as possible.

 

[CBBaron]

Well, there goes my plans to plant hops. There is no way I'm taking a chance on this.

The chance of you growing hops plants being injurous to your dogs is extremely small. First hop cones form quite high up on the plant making it difficult for a dog to even reach the flowers. Second there is no reason for them to be interested in the flowers. The plants will have been growing for several months at that point and the cones are a small green part of the plant that is bitter when bitten. Third it takes many hop cones to equal one ounce of dried hops. A packet of dries hops is very easy for a dog to snarf up. Hop cones on the plant will require a much more determined effort to chew off each cone separately.

I grow hops on my parents farm. There are 3 dogs that live with them and several more that visit regularly. None has ever shown the slightest interest in the plants even while tending them or during harvest.

Craig

 

[dontman]

Deathweed, I really like how well that explains the situation, I think that would make a good Sticky.

I grow hops and I am not concerned that my (future..) dogs will eat the plants. I will not be throwing sweet wort soaked hops on the compost pile though as I can see how that would be enticing.

There is no evidence whatsoever that spent hops in your spent grain is dangerous.

There should be much higher amounts of hop oils in your beer than your compost and there is no recorded case of hops poisoning from a dog drinking beer.

So Nunley, if his story is believed (consider the source - a first time poster), would be the sixth recorded case of hops causing MH in recorded vet history. Not worthy of a "Your Dog Will Die" thread. Certainly not worthy of a Sticky thread.

I don't know if people realize just how unusual "extremely rare" means when used in a medical journal but to put it into perspective, the FDA approves drugs for the general population that have a higher incidence of deadly side effects than hops does for dogs.

If there was some therapeutic reason to feed hops to dogs you would be able to market hops in a pet store directly for dogs and there would not even have to be a warning label on the package.

And really, who is leaving their beer ingredients where their dog can eat them? Personally, I leave no food item that I want to consume within range of my dog to make the decision for himself if he wants to try it. I have too much respect for my food ingredients and too little respect for my dog's judgement. Pretty much the only food my dog can reach is DOG food.

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Sticky is here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/dangers-hops-your-pets-108935/


Dontman, I agree 100% that this condition is EXTREMELY RARE, with only a handful of cases reported even in the last decade among the millions and millions of dogs out there.

However, there have been enough cases out there to spread just enough information that this topic comes up very regularly. because of this and the amount of misinformation out there, I wrote the aforementioned post to try and help alleviate some of the hysteria that goes along with it, and try and cut down on some of the "wow have you heard about this?" and "my dog sniffed my hop plant, should I go to the vet?" posts.

I also agree that dogs should never have the opportunity to get into things like hops, but hey, accidents happen, and for those we must prepare.

 

[dontman]

Some more perspective:

You are 740 times more likely to die from a lighting strike than your dog is from hops poisoning.

You are 1610 times more likely to die being trampled to death at a rock concert.

(Maybe we should start a sticky - Things that are more likely than your dog dying from ingesting hops)

 

[dontman]

Sticky is here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/dangers-hops-your-pets-108935/


Dontman, I agree 100% that this condition is EXTREMELY RARE, with only a handful of cases reported even in the last decade among the millions and millions of dogs out there.

However, there have been enough cases out there to spread just enough information that this topic comes up very regularly. because of this and the amount of misinformation out there, I wrote the aforementioned post to try and help alleviate some of the hysteria that goes along with it, and try and cut down on some of the "wow have you heard about this?" and "my dog sniffed my hop plant, should I go to the vet?" posts.

I also agree that dogs should never have the opportunity to get into things like hops, but hey, accidents happen, and for those we must prepare.

No, no I really appreciate you explaining the real situation to quell the hysteria fomented by this thread. I am in 100% agreement with your post.

 

[conpewter]

There is no evidence whatsoever that spent hops in your spent grain is dangerous.

Ok I agree that the risk is minimal. As I posted... you dog is more likely to die from eating raisins or chocolate etc. But 'no evidence'?

Hop Toxicity in Dogs

We have received a report from a brewer whose dog died as a result of eating the spent hops from a 15-gallon batch of Irish Stout.

Unbeknownst to most vets, at least eight cases of hop toxicity in dogs have been recorded by the National Animal Poison Control Center at the University of Illinois in Urbana, IL. Seven of the dogs have been Greyhounds, with one remaining case being a Labrador Retriever cross.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

My dog ate a single hop pellet and puked green.......Scared the crap out of me because I had heard about the "poison" thing, but no real harm done. I felt somewhat lucky.

Edit: He is a very small dog BTW. He would fit in a donkey's ass

 

[Beerrific]

There is no evidence whatsoever that spent hops in your spent grain is dangerous.

Do you have any backing for this statement?

If you read the article that deathweed referenced in the other thread:

"Malignant hyperthermia-like reaction secondary to ingestion of hops in five dogs"

J Am Vet Med Assoc. January 1997;210(1):51-4.
K L Duncan1, W R Hare, W B Buck
1 National Animal Poison Control Center (presently the ASPCA National Animal Poison Control Center), College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Illinois, Urbana 61801, USA.

Abstract
Five dogs, 4 of which were Greyhounds, suffered adverse effects secondary to the ingestion of spent hops. Mean time to onset of clinical signs was 3 hours, and clinical signs included marked hyperthermia, restlessness, panting, vomiting, signs of abdominal pain, and seizures. Four of the 5 dogs died despite aggressive therapeutic measures, and there was rapid onset of rigor mortis in 3. The overrepresentation of Greyhounds, coupled with the clinical signs, was suggestive of a malignant hyperthermia-like response to the ingestion of hops. It also is possible that hops contain an uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation.

Get full article here.

I do not think anyone is being hysterical. Just pointing out the fact that something we do, substances we keep in our homes as part of our hobby could possibly be dangerous to your pets.

My opinion and suggestion:
-Treat hops (fresh or spent) just like you would treat anything else that could harm your pets.
-If you think your dog has ingested a substantial amount of hops or anything else known to possibly be bad, know the warning signs. If their health worsens take them to the vet.
-Don't freak out.

 

[Boondoggie]

Some more perspective:

You are 740 times more likely to die from a lighting strike than your dog is from hops poisoning.

You are 1610 times more likely to die being trampled to death at a rock concert.

(Maybe we should start a sticky - Things that are more likely than your dog dying from ingesting hops)

Could also say that you're a million times more likely to buy your beer than make it... you can make statistics say anything....

So you correct for the incidence of homebrewers coinciding with being pet owners, I'm sure the chances skyrocket pretty good.

 

[cheeseshark]

Another thing to consider is that although dogs becoming ill / dying from hop ingestion is rare from among all dogs, how many dogs have access to hops? Not that many I would suspect. Obviously, the percentage of dogs with access to hops is much higher in this community than in the general public. I was simply suggesting that since presumably all our members deal with hops, it might be nice to let new members know about a potential problem. If a sticky stopped one dog from dying, or saved a member a large amount of medical bills, then it was worth it IMO.

 

[lordbeermestrength]

We call the cat s#it after it's rolled in litter "almond roca." Luckily our new dog hasn't discovered this treat yet.

Well, scratch that. The wife just found him rooting around in the kitty litter box today. Son of a bitch!! Really, he is...

 

[dontman]

Ok I agree that the risk is minimal. As I posted... you dog is more likely to die from eating raisins or chocolate etc. But 'no evidence'?

Hop Toxicity in Dogs

Before my rant, conpewter, I did not mean to single you out. My rant is directed at the 20 hysterical "Oh My God, I would have killed my dog if not for this thread" posts before yours.

Yes I am fully aware of THE single article that EVERYONE always quotes every two weeks when this topic reemerges like a particularly malignant herpes infection.

I meant to say nothing but anecdotal ecidence. Nunley's post that his dog died is a great instance of anecdotal evidence. (And I by no means accept it as fact.) There is currently a thread citing anecdotal evidence that a man died from drinking a tainted batch of beer. Where is the sticky for that? Certainly it is just as important that we save humans' lives as dogs, right?

What about the sticky citing the dangers of alcohol allergy. I received a report that 8 people I know have cousins that died from alcohol allergy.

What about the danger of beer causing people to fall off of roofs. I actually saw a person come to a party, grab his first beer of the night, walk over to the edge of the roof balcony, misjudge the height of the railing and fall over backwards. The next week this event was reported in the school newspaper and the fall was attributed to beer because the beer he had in his hand spilled all over him. Officials cited this event for rest of my time at college as the reason for increasingly Draconian alcohol rules.

Your post actually says "we have received a report" huh? wtf? From whom? From where? Some schmuck on the internet? From Nunley? Some guy who shows up and makes one post and is gone. Seriously. "We have received a report" is nothing but anecdotal. They mention that five dogs have died. Out of how many tens of millions of dogs that have lived in that time frame. At least 50 million. 1 in ten million does not even qualify as a statistical anomaly.

Out of that many dogs that have lived it could easily have occurred 5 times that a dog ate a 5 lb bag of raisinets and then coincidentally went into the kitchen where his owner was brewing beer and ate some hops and the owner only saw him eat the hops and the vet blamed the hops.

I am not saying that MH does not occur in dogs from ingesting hops, period. I am saying that if you have been this forum, or any forum for that matter, for longer than a month than you know how the membership, especially the newer membership, is very susceptible to accepting myth and overblown freak occurrences as imminent and assured.

If I didn't know better and I was about to brew my first batch of beer and I saw that I would be putting my pets in imminent danger by doing so I just wouldn't do it.

Think about this. More dogs have died from house fires that their owners caused while brewing beer.

Stickies are meant to convey the most important info that new members should know. So now Hop Toxicity is one of those.

 

[Beezer94]

I have known a couple of dogs who have eaten large quantities of chocolate in the 8-16oz range and none have had any problems, but it is well known that dogs should never have chocolate because it can kill them. The difference between 1 in a 1,000,000 dogs having an allergic reaction and 1 in 50,000,000,000 humans having tainted beer is that human's have standard treatment that almost all ambulance or hospital personal can take care of. Where all vets won't have everything since each animal and situation calls for different care.

You can see me swell and breakout in hives, all animals are so different that you can't always recognize symptoms and if they're barely visible, a dog can't say "hey get me to the freaking hospital."

You tell people not to give chocolate to their dogs because in some cases it will kill them. If you thought there was a chance that 1 sip of beer would kill you then you would not ever drink beer.

 

[rico567]

Some more perspective:

You are 740 times more likely to die from a lighting strike than your dog is from hops poisoning.

You are 1610 times more likely to die being trampled to death at a rock concert.

(Maybe we should start a sticky - Things that are more likely than your dog dying from ingesting hops)

THIS. We are looking at the "Internet forum effect" in this thread, although it was identified much earlier. One of the best is from the Republic of Plato, where he talks about speakers having their words and the response of the audience bounce among the rocks and be multiplied and amplified thereby, thus impressing all who hear of the importance and significance of what is said, no matter its true import. I suggest a sense of proportion here.

 

[HairyDogBrewing]

Since there are so few cases of hop-induced MH, can we investigate the opposite?
Has anyone's dog eaten a significant amount of hops without getting sick?

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Since there are so few cases of hop-induced MH, can we investigate the opposite?
Has anyone's dog eaten a significant amount of hops without getting sick?

Not quite how scientific research works, but good try. I can go out and pick the first 10 people I meet on campus and chances are none of them will be black. Does this mean that there are no blacks on campus? OF COURSE NOT. I do not mean to be racist or bigoted in any way, its just my class of 135 students has 0 blacks in it. With even this large sampling, does that mean there are no black veterinarians, or no black students? Nope, not at all.

As far as hops and dogs, I agree with you dontman (as stated before) that it is flippin rare!!!! Not only do you need an animal that is genetically pre-disposed, but they need to ingest hops. This combination is very rare, but those that are at risk would be home brewers with pets (this site). Does this mean that it is common among home brewers with pets? NOT AT ALL, it is still flippin rare!!!! It could happen to me, or to you, but it is just as likely Bill Gates rear ends you today and hands you a blank check and says, "fill in what you want."

You are incorrect that there have been NO reported cases in the last 12 years. You are correct that there have been NO PUBLISHED PAPERS on the subject in that time, but that does not mean the issue does not exist. My discussions with a couple veterinary toxicologists have indicated that while rare, it occurs frequently enough for investigations to take place using a drug for treatment that is more common and less expensive, and more likely to be found in your average private practice.

The lone purpose of the sticky was not to frighten people into thinking their dogs are going to die if they sniff a hop pellet, but to give some facts on what malignant hyperthermia is, and how infrequently it occurs. I could throw in some more bold and underline if you wish, but if someone is a hypochondriac, they are just going to go to some other unverified site and get the mis-information that they want. For that reason, I put the recommendation at the bottom to go to your vet for emesis and monitoring, which is not a bad idea for a lot of your pets indiscriminate eating. Does this mean that its necessary for all to receive immediate veterinary care? No, but I would rather have someone go straight to their vet than to sit and look up all kinds of mis-information on the internet and scare themselves silly.

I would much rather have a small sticky created by someone knowledgeable in the field saying it exists, but is unlikely, than to have the issue pop up every other week or so and may or may not be addressed by someone who has the facts straight.

 

[HairyDogBrewing]

Well, the only ones we can ask are homebrewers, really.
If exactly 8 dogs have eaten hops and all have died, that's one thing.
If 800 dogs have eaten trub and 8 have died, mostly greyhounds, that's another.
My guess is the latter, because no one reports good news.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

because no one reports good news.

I did!! I posted here that my dog ate a single hop pellet and threw up. That was good news in as much as it didn't kill him. What it DID do was convince me that hops and dogs are not good news. Given the number of people on this forum that brew beer (I'm guessing 97% for no particular reason) and the number of those people that have dogs, I don't think there is any over-reaction in this thread at all. No matter how few dogs actually die from eating hops, the number of dogs that un-die from eating them is less.

 

[HairyDogBrewing]

OK, that's one for "ate a pellet - threw up - didn't die".
Any more?

 

[bull8042]

......No matter how few dogs actually die from eating hops, the number of dogs that un-die from eating them is less.

Know what LG? Your use of the English language is utterly amazing! I always sit in awe of the way you don't say the things that should be left unsaid without unsaying the other things that lack understandability, but only when the moon is unfull.....

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

OK, that's one for "ate a pellet - threw up - didn't die".
Any more?

My neighbour's dog is a reall ******. I am willing to experiment, if that will help your research!

 

[SumnerH]

No matter how few dogs actually die from eating hops, the number of dogs that un-die from eating them is less.

Actually, my dog ate a single hop pellet and now he's a zombie. :cross: