Damn priming sugar....

[San Jose State University]

All of my batches taste awesome before bottling, then after carbonation they taste very cidery.

John Palmer says:
"Cidery
Cidery flavors can have several causes but are often the result of adding too much cane or corn sugar to a recipe. One component of a cidery flavor is acetaldehyde which has a green-apple character. It is a common fermentation byproduct and different yeasts will produce different levels of it depending on the recipe and temperature. Cidery flavors are encouraged by warmer than normal temperatures and can be decreased by lagering.

If it is caused by aceto bacteria, then there is nothing to be done about it. Keep the fruit flies away from the fermentor next time."

If I can't use white sugar or corn sugar... what can I use???

 

[Brewing Clamper]

how much sugar are you using?! I don't think that little amount of corn sugar would make that big of a difference. What temp are you keeping the bottles at?

Are you still at SJSU or alumn?

 

[Yooper]

I almost always use priming sugar to bottle and my beer is great. You can, however, use DME to prime if you don't want to use corn sugar. I think it's about 1 1/4 cups per batch but better check with others to make sure. I'm going by memory, and I'm getting older......

I suspect something other than priming sugar, however. I suspect the sanitation of your bottles, caps, and/or bottling equipment is the culprit. If the beer tastes good before carbonation and bad after carbonation, the only thing different is the container. The 4 ounces of sugar in 5 gallons of beer is fully fermentable and should not give any flavor at all to the beer. If you want, you could post your exact bottling procedure, and we could look at it and see if anything seems to be amiss.

 

[brewt00l]

how much sugar are you using?! I don't think that little amount of corn sugar would make that big of a difference. What temp are you keeping the bottles at?

yeah, I would look elsewhere for the source of your problem a typical amount of priming sugar is not going to cause cidery flavors alone....especially when you describe it as "very cidery." Fermentation temp wouldn't be most likely since the flavors are not there prior to bottling so perhaps an infection?

 

[Brewsmith]

Palmer is talking about adding pounds of sugar as part of the main fermentables in a brew. 3/4 cup of corn sugar to prime is nothing.

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

I don't think your priming sugar is causing a cidery taste in your beer, but if you can't figure anything else out use DME instead. 1 1/4 cups is usually the prescribed dose. Supposedly it tends to take a little longer and they say it creates smaller bubbles in your beer, but I never noticed that.

I did note that my best batch so far was one that was primed with DME but there were a couple of other changes I made, too, such as doing a full boil, so I can't really credit that for making the beer any better.

 

[BarryNL]

I guess one possibility is oxygenation - if you're agitating the beer too much and oxygenating it during bottling it could be causing cidery flavours - a bit like when a pub has a cask bitter open for too long and it goes 'off'.

 

[San Jose State University]

I guess one possibility is oxygenation - if you're agitating the beer too much and oxygenating it during bottling it could be causing cidery flavours - a bit like when a pub has a cask bitter open for too long and it goes 'off'.

OoooooooOhhh!

First off, I follow the Mr. Beer directions. I add 2.5 tsp WHITE table sugar to each 1 liter bottle for carbination. It also says to vigorously shake the bottles once the beer is added to mix the sugar.

Do you think it's the white sugar, shaking of bottles, or both?

 

[Yooper]

I'm not real familiar with Mr. Beer, except one of my friends has one. But I think you've diagnosed your problem.......

 

[TheJadedDog]

I think your over-riding issue is the use of the Mr. Beer Kit. If you like the hobby do yourself a favor and invest in a true 5 gallon set-up.

 

[olllllo]

The correspondance of Mr Beer and cidery is remarkable
[ame]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22mr+beer%22+cidery+site%3Awww.homebrewtalk.com[/ame]

 

[San Jose State University]

I think your over-riding issue is the use of the Mr. Beer Kit. If you like the hobby do yourself a favor and invest in a true 5 gallon set-up.

Believe me, I'm definitely much more interested in the 5 gallon set-up. However, I'm a "typical poor college student." As money comes along, I buy more for the true setup.

However, I'm slowly but surely building my way up. I've been buying DME and hops instead of using the beer in a can method, and I'm building up my other collection of items including yeast reusal equipment and airlocks, large pot, etc. I'm mostly in need of the fermentor and lots of little other items needed for my main goal.

There is a bright side, though. I get to experiment with a high turn-over rate and when I make something I don't like too much I can get rid of it fairly quickly. 2 gallons goes by quickly and I don't waste as much time or money with my learning curve.

I'm hoping that the switch to using corn sugar and not shaking my bottles will result in a reduction of cidery flavors.

BTW, since someone asked, my bottles are stored at temperatures between 70 and 80 deg F. I know 80 is a little high but I live in California and it's warming up.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

you should be adding your sugar to boiling water to make sure it is disolved and add to the mr beer before bottling, not adding sugar straight to the bottles.

 

[TheJadedDog]

Believe me, I'm definitely much more interested in the 5 gallon set-up. However, I'm a "typical poor college student." As money comes along, I buy more for the true setup.

However, I'm slowly but surely building my way up. I've been buying DME and hops instead of using the beer in a can method, and I'm building up my other collection of items including yeast reusal equipment and airlocks, large pot, etc. I'm mostly in need of the fermentor and lots of little other items needed for my main goal.

There is a bright side, though. I get to experiment with a high turn-over rate and when I make something I don't like too much I can get rid of it fairly quickly. 2 gallons goes by quickly and I don't waste as much time or money with my learning curve.

I'm hoping that the switch to using corn sugar and not shaking my bottles will result in a reduction of cidery flavors.

BTW, since someone asked, my bottles are stored at temperatures between 70 and 80 deg F. I know 80 is a little high but I live in California and it's warming up.

I feel your pain on the lack of money but if all you need is a fermentor, get a 6.5 gallon food grade bucket, they are like $10 tops. You might also want to consider using glass bottles, I think their around $8 a case.

As for the taste, switching to corn sugar and not shaking may help you out.

 

[treehouse]

I don't think your priming sugar is causing a cidery taste in your beer, but if you can't figure anything else out use DME instead. 1 1/4 cups is usually the prescribed dose. Supposedly it tends to take a little longer and they say it creates smaller bubbles in your beer, but I never noticed that.

I did note that my best batch so far was one that was primed with DME but there were a couple of other changes I made, too, such as doing a full boil, so I can't really credit that for making the beer any better.

I used to use DME as a primer and noticed one difference in my beer: The formation of an annoying ring inside the neck of my bottles after conditioning. Apparently when DME is used, a mini "primary" fermentation takes place and there is a small amount of krausen that forms. This tends to leave the little ring of protein in the bottle neck. This doesn't effect the beer, but does make the job of cleaning bottles a little more labor intensive. Gotta get out the old bottle brush and since I'm a lazy (but clean!) brewer, I just go with corn sugar and have much cleaner bottles ready for the next batch. Did I notice a difference in taste from DME and corn sugar priming? Not really, although I might have imagined a slightly maltier taste. I dunno.

 

[cormi3r]

I'm willing to bet on a college campus you could find glass bottles for free as opposed to $8 a case.

I thought to prime it was 3/4 cup od corn sugar made into a simple syrup with equal amounts of water, then the simple syrup was added to your racked beer for bottling. Is that right?

 

[Yooper]

I use 4 ounces (by weight) corn sugar into 2 cups boiling water. I boil it for a couple of minutes and then let it cool. Then I put it in the bottling bucket and then rack the beer into it. Submerge the tip of the tubing so that it "swirls" and mixes as you rack.

 

[b767fo]

Go to howtobrew.com. Palmer has posted the entire 1st edition of his book that you can read or download pages as you need. Just adapt his instructions to fit your Mr Beer (and throw out the instructions that came with it).

 

[SteveM]

I could be mistaken but I think that Mr. Beer recipes are oftentimes half sugar and half malt for the basic fermentables. If this is the case, double your malt and cut the sugar out fir your brewing. Then use corn sugar (dextrose) for priming.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

Do you live in the Dorms? As mentioned above, I'm pretty sure you can get tons of non-twist off bottles for free. Hell, next time you drink non HB make sure to buy the right bottles and use those afterwards!

 

[San Jose State University]

I could be mistaken but I think that Mr. Beer recipes are oftentimes half sugar and half malt for the basic fermentables. If this is the case, double your malt and cut the sugar out fir your brewing. Then use corn sugar (dextrose) for priming.

Exactly. I'm using that method now. I'm just confused because even when I did the half sugar/half can thing that came with the kit, it tasted nothing like cider before bottling. Afterwards was a whole new can of worms. At the end of the week I'll have a new batch done without any sugar added, and I'll try it with corn sugar to see if it helps.

 

[mummasan]

I made about 10 mr beer kits - when i bottled i followed the instructions and added white table sugar to each bottle then added the beer - after the beer was in i capped the bottles and simply turned them upside down two times - i did not shake vigorously - i never got a cidery flavor

you could buy a bottle filler for about $2 - filling the bottles quietly is important

you could stop using the PET bottles and start using glass - which means buying a capper and caps

remember the 3/4 cups corn sugar to prime is for a 5 gallon batch - since you are brewing about 2 gallons per batch use a smaller amount