D47 yeast

[bmd2k1]

Gonna give D47 a first try for some ice cider / applejack.

Interested in hearing from folks that use D47...

Have you had success just pitching in must....or do ya really need to rehydrate prior? (I use S04 quite a bit and never rehydrate.)

How long does your primary fermentation typically last?

Do you let it sit on lees as Lavlin suggests...for added complexity...if so typically how long?


Cheers!
Brian

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I don't use D-47 anymore. I have a tough time with temp control & D-47 tends to throw a lot of fusels at higher temps. It takes a long time for fusels to age out. That being said, if you can keep a steady temp at the lower end of D-47's range, it will make some very good wine/mead. Not sure about cider, but I can tell you it will take cider dry.A friend of mine uses D-47 almost exclusively for his wine/mead, but he has a basement that maintains a steady temp of 63*F.
Here's some info on D-47:
http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/product-details/lalvin-icv-d47/

Hope this helps. Regards, GF.

 

[jscott03]

I used D 47 this past fall on 10 gallons of cider. My cellar maintains about 60-65 deg. I pitched the yeast dry with no problem. Fermentation lasted 7-10 days. I racked to 1 gallon jugs for secondary soon after. Left in secondary for three months. They all finished dry 1.000 or so. I flavored in secondary with cinnamon sticks or just before bottling with extracts ,back sweetened with the stevia or maltodextrin. I used brown sugar for priming and let the bottles sit for three weeks before going into the fridge. Carbonation has been variable from quite nice to non existent. The flavor is pleasing and the more it ages the better

 

[bmd2k1]

Thanks for feedback!

Couple days ago, I started a small 2gal+ batch of my "cheaters" ice cider using D87. Pinched directly in the must and sitting in a low 60's area to keep the temp at low end of spectrum. Starting SG 1.13. My hope/goal is that it stops fermenting on it's own around 14%...per the spec'd tolerance.

Peace out!

 

[bmd2k1]

7days in and fermentation still chugging along...getting airlock bubbles every 7-10secs. Room temp 63-65F...

 

[diyHardCider]

back sweetened with the stevia or maltodextrin

I don't see maltodextrin mentioned too often as being used in cider... searched and only found a couple threads. This one seemed to have mixed opinions: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/maltodextrin.505144/ Is it used as a non-fermentable sweetener, like stevia would be? Any advantages or disadvantages compared to other sugar substitutes?

 

[AzOr]

I’ve done applejack several times with different yeast. As long as it ferments as dry as possible, you’ll be good.

I would recommend NOT backsweetening until after you freeze concentrate. At that point the abv will be too high to kickstart fermentation. Also, it tends to get syrupy sweet.

Good luck! Post the results.

 

[FunkyMunk]

Sur lie aging is done on the fine lees, not the gross lees, so you would rack after primary to your secondary/aging vessel. It typically takes place over the course of several months. I just did this with a cider I started last fall with D47 and although it fermented dry (0.998), the mouthfeel is great and sort of lends the illusion of sweetness (which I've read is due to the presence of complex carbohydrates from D47), so my preference is to leave it as is (I prefer dry ciders to sweet ciders).

 

[bmd2k1]

Sur lie aging is done on the fine lees, not the gross lees, so you would rack after primary to your secondary/aging vessel. It typically takes place over the course of several months. I just did this with a cider I started last fall with D47 and although it fermented dry (0.998), the mouthfeel is great and sort of lends the illusion of sweetness (which I've read is due to the presence of complex carbohydrates from D47), so my preference is to leave it as is (I prefer dry ciders to sweet ciders).

How long does your primary fermentation typically last?

My temps have been in low 60s and I'm at the 2week point 2day and its still chugging along. I haven't taken another SG yet...gonna wait for significant activity slowdown...and still hoping it stops on its own near its stated alcohol tolerance level of 14%.

Cheers[emoji111]

 

[FunkyMunk]

I've seen primary last up to a month with a 14% mead, using D47 at around 60, give or take a few degrees. It should finish quicker at higher temps.

 

[bmd2k1]

3weeks in 2day....airlock activity in mid50s seconds. Gonna wait till there's significant dropoff b4 checking SG. Speidel is opaque...and its tough to see lees compared to S04 batches.

Cheers & the D47 journey continues...[emoji111]

 

[bmd2k1]

4weeks 2day.....was still getting airlock bubbles in the 50secs...

Took SG....and its at 1.022 -- so approx ABV is 14.15%...

Sample tasted great....appley...smooth...and really not too hot. Gonna let it go a few more days then cold crash for 48hrs and rack.

Happy with early returns on this first D47 attempt. [emoji111]

 

[bmd2k1]

Changed my mind...just tossed in fridge to cold crash....probably 3-4days.....typically only go 48hrs with S04...

 

[bmd2k1]

At day4 of cold crash....

D47 is supposed to provide additional complexity if aged on lees.....my question is...any benefit aging on lees whilst cold crashed....or must it be at higher temp?

 

[ten80]

"cellar" temperature. Part of the flavor contribution from sur lees aging comes from yeast autolysis, which doesn't happen much at fridge temps. Imagine champagne cellars in France, they are likely at 40-55 F.

 

[bmd2k1]

Racked into bottles...ended up with 2.25gals -- super clear. What lees there were are super compact after cc'ing...

Ending ABV bit over 14%. At this point would use D47 again for fall/winter batches whilst temps are colder.

Cheers [emoji111]

Lees pic bottom of 5.3gal Speidel...

 

[ten80]

Awesome! Put QA23 on your list as well, it also ferments cold and clean and the ester profile is sublimely fruity.

 

[bmd2k1]

Any other D47 fans out there?

Curious how long ya typically ferment for? Do ya cold crash? Do ya let ur cider sit on lees for extended time to experience the benefits D47 provides - if so...how long? What ABV do ya typically ferment to? Yadda yadda yadda....

Cheers to D47 [emoji111]

 

[Maylar]

I have a couple cysers fermenting with it now. Started at 1.100 and they're just about done, still bubbling slowly at 1.000 after 3 weeks. Seems to have been happy at 60-62°F.

 

[bmd2k1]

I have a couple cysers fermenting with it now. Started at 1.100 and they're just about done, still bubbling slowly at 1.000 after 3 weeks. Seems to have been happy at 60-62°F.

Wow....dropping 100pts in 3 weeks...do ya add yeast nutrient/energizer etc?

My latest batch started at 1.132 and is at 1.032 after 5 1/2 weeks....fermenting at 63/64F....no nutrients/energizer.

 

[Maylar]

Wow....dropping 100pts in 3 weeks...do ya add yeast nutrient/energizer etc?

My latest batch started at 1.132 and is at 1.032 after 5 1/2 weeks....fermenting at 63/64F....no nutrients/energizer.

Yep, for meads and cysers I always follow the TOSNA protocol. Staggered nutrient additions and daily stirring / degassing until the ferment is done. Makes the yeasties happy. A clean ferment, no sulfur. Time to rack them off the spices (clove, nutmeg, cinnamon) and maybe cold crash with bentonite now. Hoping to sample at Christmas.

BTW I see warnings not to let D47 get above 65F else you risk getting fusels.

 

[ten80]

I just go slow and cold with D47 with no nutrient additions for cyser and it seems to work nicely, though it takes about 8 months for the fermentation to complete at 42-50F in my garage. That gives me time to bottle my "faster" ciders and brew beer.

 

[bmd2k1]

I just go slow and cold with D47 with no nutrient additions for cyser and it seems to work nicely, though it takes about 8 months for the fermentation to complete at 42-50F in my garage. That gives me time to bottle my "faster" ciders and brew beer.

Wow...ferments at that cold a range. Lalvin specs say 59-68F...but I guess that's their "optimal" range.

 

[ten80]

"optimal" because complete fermentation is pretty much guaranteed in that temperature range, but in my opinion, not optimal in terms of preserving delicate flavors and reducing sulfur compound aromas.

Wine yeast has a lower temp range than the manufacturers would suggest; I recently put a DV10/71B mixed starter in my fridge to cold-crash the yeast and it kept fermenting away at ~38F for about a week. Once started, it's hard to stop wine yeasts unless you completely freeze the medium.

 

[bmd2k1]

Gonna try cold crashing a D47 batch prior to approaching its alcohol tolerance point -- batch started at 1.062 -- gonna try crashing around 1.01. All my prior batches were for faux ice cider ending around 14%....D47s stated tolerance point. Fermenting in the low 60s.

Cheers [emoji111]

 

[bmd2k1]

...for those thinking about D47 -- remember it does tend to have a bit of a start-up lag -- so be patient & you will be rewarded by an awesome cider!

 

[FunkyMunk]

"optimal" because complete fermentation is pretty much guaranteed in that temperature range, but in my opinion, not optimal in terms of preserving delicate flavors and reducing sulfur compound aromas.

Wine yeast has a lower temp range than the manufacturers would suggest; I recently put a DV10/71B mixed starter in my fridge to cold-crash the yeast and it kept fermenting away at ~38F for about a week. Once started, it's hard to stop wine yeasts unless you completely freeze the medium.

How necessary is degassing during a low and slow ferment with D47? I've got a traditional mead (I realize this is technically a cider forum but this could apply to cyser) that is still fermenting at or just under 50*F, and I'm about to hit the 1/3 sugar break (1.062 down from 1.096), at which point I will stop aerating and adding nutrients. Just curious whether I can just slap a lid and an airlock on it and leave it alone.

 

[Maylar]

How necessary is degassing during a low and slow ferment with D47? I've got a traditional mead (I realize this is technically a cider forum but this could apply to cyser) that is still fermenting at or just under 50*F, and I'm about to hit the 1/3 sugar break (1.062 down from 1.096), at which point I will stop aerating and adding nutrients. Just curious whether I can just slap a lid and an airlock on it and leave it alone.

Degassing is overrated IMO. The idea of it is to get the CO2 out. CO2 in suspension creates carbonic acid, which lowers the pH of the must. So during fermentation it's possible for the pH to reach dangerously low levels and stall the ferment. In practice, yeasts can handle down to 3.0 or even less and unless you have really acidic cider you won't get that low.

Stirring however has another benefit. By rousing the lees you keep the yeast in suspension. For high gravity musts (wine, mead or cysers) that makes for a cleaner stronger ferment.

For straight cider however, the accepted protocol is to do exactly the opposite. Don't stir up the lees. Rack at 1/2 gravity to reduce the yeast biomass and slow the ferment down. Ferment cold and let it take a few months.

 

[ten80]

Don't stir up the lees. Rack at 1/2 gravity to reduce the yeast biomass and slow the ferment down. Ferment cold and let it take a few months.

Agreed. I don't agitate my "slow and cold" fermented ciders. I only degass big meads and barley-wine strength beers to help rouse yeast and raise the pH slightly in an effort to have complete fermentations.

 

[bmd2k1]

Ok D47ers.... If ur a cold crasher for D47....how long do you typically do it for?

I've been going 5days typically....but not sure when diminishing marginal returns kicks in for D47. Hmmm. (...for S04 I've found 48hrs is all that's needed...anything longer provides Zero additional benefits)

D47ers chime in! [emoji16][emoji111]

 

[CKuhns]

Cold Crash
SO4 = 2-3 days for Ciders
D47 = 5 - 7 Days. (For Meads or Cysers) Have not tried D47 for Cider but may just do so.

 

[ten80]

Ok D47ers.... If ur a cold crasher for D47....how long do you typically do it for?
[emoji16][emoji111]

I just let D47 settle out over time. It is know for being a good yeast for "sur lies" aging, adding complexity to ciders, meads, and wines. It goes crystal clear after about 4-5 months at around 45F. I backsweeten as needed with sorbitol for D47 ciders because they've fermented out completely (around 1.000) after such a long time.

 

[Blacksmith1]

What's the upper end of its temp range claim?
Some of us can't do low temps.

 

[bmd2k1]

What's the upper end of its temp range claim?
Some of us can't do low temps.

68F is top end.....

I always ferment in low to mid 60s. [emoji111]

 

[bmd2k1]

Gonna try cold crashing a D47 batch prior to approaching its alcohol tolerance point -- batch started at 1.062 -- gonna try crashing around 1.01. All my prior batches were for faux ice cider ending around 14%....D47s stated tolerance point. Fermenting in the low 60s.

Cheers [emoji111]

Ok...so just bottled this batch back into 1gal containers....turned out great!

FG 1.012.....after 13day ferment & 5day cold crash. D47 lees are like a very thick caramel syrup [emoji16]

 

[ten80]

Nice! It can be difficult to catch this yeast before it finishes out in the low 1.000's or below! I'm also leaning towards ending around 1.012 for my semi-sweet ciders these days.

 

[bmd2k1]

Nice! It can be difficult to catch this yeast before it finishes out in the low 1.000's or below! I'm also leaning towards ending around 1.012 for my semi-sweet ciders these days.

Seems to cold crash pretty well...albeit for longer time than S04. Cheers [emoji111]

 

[bmd2k1]

Firing up a fresh batch using D47 -- this time I decided to try rehydrating by adding 1C warm h20 + 1/4tsp generic yeast nutrient + 1/4tsp white sugar -- 1st time rehydrating for a cider...after 45mins no noticeable growth like S04 gives ya - but D47 has a known lag phase [emoji16]

4gals 100% AJ + 12cans FAJC

OG 1.081

Targeting a cold crash at 1.02

Cheers [emoji111]


Update: 1hr 15mins into ferment...getting airlock activity every 4mins....which is amazing 4 a D47 batch....credit the rehydrate!

 

[Maylar]

Firing up a fresh batch using D47 -- this time I decided to try rehydrating by adding 1C warm h20 + 1/4tsp generic yeast nutrient + 1/4tsp white sugar -- 1st time rehydrating for a cider...after 45mins no noticeable growth like S04 gives ya - but D47 has a known lag phase [emoji16]

4gals 100% AJ + 12cans FAJC

OG 1.081

Targeting a cold crash at 1.02

Cheers [emoji111]


Update: 1hr 15mins into ferment...getting airlock activity every 4mins....which is amazing 4 a D47 batch....credit the rehydrate!

When you cold crash to stop the ferment, do you ever rack onto sorbate/sulfite and bottle your stuff? Or do you leave it in the fridge and always serve cold? 'Cuz if you take an un-stabilized cider out of the cold it'd start up again. Just curious.

 

[bmd2k1]

When you cold crash to stop the ferment, do you ever rack onto sorbate/sulfite and bottle your stuff? Or do you leave it in the fridge and always serve cold? 'Cuz if you take an un-stabilized cider out of the cold it'd start up again. Just curious.

So far no sorbate/sulfite - I keep em cold & serve em up that way. Next move will be snagging kegs to upscale serving vessels. I have transferred to grolsch style bottles & given as gifts. [emoji111]