Cutting Brew Day Time the time challenge!

[masonsjax]

I was ripped for suggesting the "reverse step mash"....... awhile back which is exactly what you are pointing out. I've done exactly what you are suggesting...... and it seems to work. By your program, I would heat to 155, then turn the flame off, let it fall down to 145, then turn the flame back on and go from there. This would probably provide plenty of mashing time.

Howard

Limit dextrinase enzyme is denatured above 149ish so some of the steps in a typical step mash wouldn't work in reverse, but if you keep it under 160, you should be fine if you're just depending on alpha and beta amylase as most of us are.

Mashout isn't necessary if your not fly sparging. Go ahead and collect or whatever you do with BIAB and move towards a boil. Maybe that's what you mean, I just want to be sure that point is clear, seems it's still a part of many homebrewers' routines.

 

[BrewerinBR]

why I would rush through something I so thoroughly enjoy. Brew Day for me a cherished activity, planned for at least two weeks. Each step contemplated the results documented, notes taken on future improvements. Process of previous brew days reviewed and ideas generated for improvements. Researched through volumes of books and internet whitepapers. I have no intention of even considering shortening my brew day I find ways to extend it, look forward to trying new processes one step at a time. I enjoy and savor each step every nuance and subtlety.

Why are you in such a hurry?

Just my $0.02

 

[Owly055]

I conducted the amazing 10 minute mash test and was shocked at how rapidly the conversion took place.

* One gallon test brew using 2 pounds of 2 row and some crystal. Double crushed, the
second pass done at .010 spacing.

* Dough in at 130 tap water temp, and crank the heat up

* When the mash reached 145, I turned the heat down to prevent it running through
the mash range too fast, as this is a very small batch

* Stirring constantly, the conversion started happening big time at around 149. I could
actually see it happen. The milky liquid cleared and thinned into a nice clear wort.
Meanwhile the brix jumped rapidly up to 10, and stopped just shy of 12. Post boil brix
I mashed with 1.5 gallons of strike water for a one gallon brew (excessive), and the
brix well above my target. The actual conversion took about 5 min. There is
absolutely no doubt that I achieved complete conversion.


I learned a few things here, one, perhaps the most important is that conversion can happen very very rapidly..... as I was told, two is that when you are watching, you can visually see it happen. Stirring appears to be important....... at least I think so. I also learned that the iodine test is a waste of time. As riot suggested, the refractometer is extremely effective. When the brix quits rising, conversion is obviously complete.

In conclusion, it's pretty obvious that my steady heat program will work fine as long as I monitor temps and stir through the mash range. That puts my 2 hour brew cycle within easy reach. It also alleviates the boredom of waiting. I will have to stir through the heating cycle until I hit 165 or so, then I'll have an hour boil to wait through.

This test brew is in the boil now. I will boil it down to 3/4 gallon, and ferment it in a one gallon ice tea jug, adding sterile water to make up the gallon after the krausen has fallen. Hopped with Motueka fwh and Motueka 30 min and Nelson Sauvin 5 min. (4 grams each) The extra long boil to boil it down to 3 quarts throws my hop additions all out of whack, but who cares! As long as it tastes decent (and it will), and has IBUs between 30 and 60 (and it will), I'm happy. It should give me 6 half liter bottles of good ale, easily.


H.W.

 

[Owly055]

Brew day fast approacheth rapidly...........and I'm tickling my recipe just slightly. It appears that the 5 minute conversion test I did Sunday is going to finish about .003 above my target FG. That's pretty darn good considering the process. Dough in at 130 tap water temp, fast heat to 145, go up from 145 at about 1 deg per min, keeping the temp below 155 until full conversion, then squeeze and run on up to boil. Full conversion in 5 min from about 149-154.

I'm going to tickle the recipe I used for the 2 hour 39 minute brew with 45 min mash 45 min boil, but use the 5 minute conversion and an hour boil.

The original grain bill is as follows: 5 lbs 2 row, 1/4 pound each carapils and CR60

Dropping the Carapils lowers the OG by 3 points, and adding 2.5 oz corn sugar brings it back up. Corn sugar is 100% fermentable for practical purposes, and carapils is not. The result should be the same ABV, and FG, same flavor as neither carapils nor corn sugar effect flavor. SRM will be slightly lower. 7.06 versus 7.13, but that difference is trivial. The unfermentable sugars from the short mash that leave me with the extra 3 points of gravity should stand in for the carapils, so I should have nearly the exact same beer except for a slight color change.

Thoughts anybody??

H.W.

 

[masonsjax]

It would be more effective to go down in temp during the mash, allowing alpha to work first in it's ideal range, then move down into beta's ideal range. Your way should work fine too, but might not be as efficient.

 

[Owly055]

It would be more effective to go down in temp during the mash, allowing alpha to work first in it's ideal range, then move down into beta's ideal range. Your way should work fine too, but might not be as efficient.

I agree that it is not technically as efficient, however it IS faster, and corn sugar is cheaper than CaraPils. It makes sense in terms both of time and cost (to me). The way I look at it, the purpose of the carapils is met by the slightly lower mash efficiency. I'm gaining what the carapils would give me, from the two row which I'm paying 50 cents per pound for as compared to $1.75 for the carapils. I forget what the corn sugar cost, but it was far less per point of gravity than any malts at the LHBS.

H.W.

 

[govner1]

why I would rush through something I so thoroughly enjoy. Brew Day for me a cherished activity, planned for at least two weeks. Each step contemplated the results documented, notes taken on future improvements. Process of previous brew days reviewed and ideas generated for improvements. Researched through volumes of books and internet whitepapers. I have no intention of even considering shortening my brew day I find ways to extend it, look forward to trying new processes one step at a time. I enjoy and savor each step every nuance and subtlety.



Why are you in such a hurry?



Just my $0.02

+++1 on making your brew day a pleasure. It's a HOBBY not a daunting chore! And, if done well your resulting product will/should be something you and your friends/family can enjoy with you.
Certainly there are processes you can make more efficient. These come with experience and from sharing your experiences with others while learning from them.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Owly055]

+++1 on making your brew day a pleasure. It's a HOBBY not a daunting chore! And, if done well your resulting product will/should be something you and your friends/family can enjoy with you.
Certainly there are processes you can make more efficient. These come with experience and from sharing your experiences with others while learning from them.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

We all view things differently........ working toward reducing the time spent is a challenge I look forward to, NOT a chore. It amazes me how many people automatically assume that my attempts to reduce brewing time are "a chore" and take the pleasure out of brewing. I get my pleasure from many aspects of brewing. I look forward to brew day as much as anybody else. Part of that enjoyment is designing my recipes to hone in on flavors I like, part from experimentation with equipment and technique, and part from the results. NONE of it is from waiting for things to happen. There is plenty of leisure during a 2 hour 38 minute brew day.... Time to visit with friends, to have a beer, answer email, plan my next brew.
If I dreaded brew day..... would I do it once a week? If I dreaded brew day, wouldn't I be saving for a Pico Brew, or Braumeister? Or building a sophisticated triple tun HERMS system that would do 11 gallon brews so I would be able to brew once a month instead of once a week?

There are many things people I know do and call "pleasure" that I can't even relate to. One long time friend is a famous celebrity........ I won't mention his name for obvious reasons. I'm amazed at his "power vacations". He owns property here locally, and comes out in summer, and I visit with him at the local watering hole. He's as excited as a kid coming to summer camp, and I love his enthusiasm. He outlines his plans, and they are scheduled right down to the minute. "I'm going to do this, then that, then the other thing, etc.". He brings the intensity of his life in _______ with him here, and seems to have little concept of relaxing and enjoying himself in a leisurely manner, as I would see it. He would go crazy hanging out with me for a week, and I would go crazy hanging out with him. We come from different worlds, and look at things entirely differently.

M___ doesn't advocate that everybody do "power vacations", I don't advocate that everybody take the laid back vacations I do. I encourage those who are offended by the idea of cutting brew day time to abandon this thread.........it's like porn. Those of us who are offended by it simply don't watch it, except those who get off on being outraged by it.

H.W.

 

[Arrheinous]

I've done all-grain, no-boil on the last six or so batches and those days are 3 hours from dragging out equipment to clean up finished. The Aurora Blonde was 2.5 hours because I only sparged once. And I'm getting 70% efficiency with malt conditioning and a good grind.

Run-off wort is hot so it goes into a brew bucket to chill (no glass!). After an overnight chill I pitch yeast. Using a fridge and agitating the wort every hour gets that down to maybe five hours of chilling. I can also transfer from the bucket to a carboy and I've found there's an average amount of trub.

Granted most of those were pitched with Roeselare but the Pumpkin Stout and Blonde are non-sours. A good mash out (180F), extensive use of mash hopping or a cereal/decoction mash with hops for IBUs can let you do this.

I'm experimenting with Whirlfloc in the mash and gelatin in kegs to try and clarify the beer which doesn't get a chance for hotbreak. The blonde is going to be my test case for this.

 

[Owly055]

I've done all-grain, no-boil on the last six or so batches and those days are 3 hours from dragging out equipment to clean up finished. The Aurora Blonde was 2.5 hours because I only sparged once. And I'm getting 70% efficiency with malt conditioning and a good grind.

Run-off wort is hot so it goes into a brew bucket to chill (no glass!). After an overnight chill I pitch yeast. Using a fridge and agitating the wort every hour gets that down to maybe five hours of chilling. I can also transfer from the bucket to a carboy and I've found there's an average amount of trub.

Granted most of those were pitched with Roeselare but the Pumpkin Stout and Blonde are non-sours. A good mash out (180F), extensive use of mash hopping or a cereal/decoction mash with hops for IBUs can let you do this.

I'm experimenting with Whirlfloc in the mash and gelatin in kegs to try and clarify the beer which doesn't get a chance for hotbreak. The blonde is going to be my test case for this.

I've never heard of no boil.......... I'd love to hear more about it. I almost felt like a criminal when I reduced my boil to 45 minutes in the face of all the people who insist that one hour is a minimum, and state what appear to be excellent reasons. I'm not sure how you get bittering without boil.

H.W.

 

[paul_111]

why I would rush through something I so thoroughly enjoy. Brew Day for me a cherished activity, planned for at least two weeks. Each step contemplated the results documented, notes taken on future improvements. Process of previous brew days reviewed and ideas generated for improvements. Researched through volumes of books and internet whitepapers. I have no intention of even considering shortening my brew day I find ways to extend it, look forward to trying new processes one step at a time. I enjoy and savor each step every nuance and subtlety.

Why are you in such a hurry?

Just my $0.02

Here's my take...

I enjoy brewing, but there are several aspects I do not enjoy. As others have mentioned, I do not enjoy waiting for water to heat. I do not enjoy cleaning, but it is a necessary evil.

Like you, I take notes, review, compare, read, learn, etc. I like the tinkering aspect, but my main drive is experimenting with new recipes/ingredients - I suppose that's the scientist in me.

I don't want to spend the little time I have for this hobby waiting, nor do I enjoy chasing multiple variables (which brings us back to tinkering and making semi-automated systems). I want a system that hits the temperatures that I input so I can enjoy the aspects that I find, well, enjoyable.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think the motivation here is to hurry; rather, it is to increase efficiency and streamline processes or reduce/eliminate the unenjoyable aspects of brewing so we can focus on those we DO enjoy in the limited 'me' time available in our hectic lives. If we can reduce the process time, for example, perhaps we can brew more frequently, as we don't have to clear our schedules for the majority of the day. ...And that would allow us to enjoy our hobby more frequently

Paul

 

[Owly055]

Here's my take...

I enjoy brewing, but there are several aspects I do not enjoy. As others have mentioned, I do not enjoy waiting for water to heat. I do not enjoy cleaning, but it is a necessary evil.

Like you, I take notes, review, compare, read, learn, etc. I like the tinkering aspect, but my main drive is experimenting with new recipes/ingredients - I suppose that's the scientist in me.

I don't want to spend the little time I have for this hobby waiting, nor do I enjoy chasing multiple variables (which brings us back to tinkering and making semi-automated systems). I want a system that hits the temperatures that I input so I can enjoy the aspects that I find, well, enjoyable.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think the motivation here is to hurry; rather, it is to increase efficiency and streamline processes or reduce/eliminate the unenjoyable aspects of brewing so we can focus on those we DO enjoy in the limited 'me' time available in our hectic lives. If we can reduce the process time, for example, perhaps we can brew more frequently, as we don't have to clear our schedules for the majority of the day. ...And that would allow us to enjoy our hobby more frequently

Paul

Thanks Paul.............. You hit the nail right on the head. That is exactly how I feel about this project. I am already working on automation to the extent of setting up a recirculation system (see "suck starting a pump versus a ported brew kettle") It will ultimately include a heating element and PID used ONLY during the mash cycle for exactly the reasons you stated. It will be an auxillary system that will be lifted out as soon as the mash is finished. I also plan on building a floating 2500 watt heating element, which should cut my now 30 min to boil time with just the gas stove, down to about 5 minutes, for very low cost in terms of dollars per hours saved over a year. Again, it will be used only briefly.

Howard

 

[Arrheinous]

I've never heard of no boil.......... I'd love to hear more about it. I almost felt like a criminal when I reduced my boil to 45 minutes in the face of all the people who insist that one hour is a minimum, and state what appear to be excellent reasons. I'm not sure how you get bittering without boil.

H.W.

Traditionally you don't boil berliner weiss. And in some instances people do no (or very low) boil wits to get them appropriately cloudy. I kind of ran with the idea and began adapting my process to avoid using so much equipment, having to manage propane, and wait out the boil/chill phases. Moving to an automated e-brewery where everything stays put is in the future though.

I think I've brewed six times in the past month which would have been five months of brews the old way. I get to brew more often because I don't have to convince SWMBO for a whole 8-10 hours to do my thing. I can do that in 3 now.

You'll need to use more hops to mash hop. It works. People don't like it when you mash hop and then boil away the hop compounds but in this case you won't. I'll use 1oz - 4oz of hops and I buy in bulk so the extra cost comes out less than the propane I'm not using. You can throw hops into a cereal mash or decoction (that's a boil, you cheat) to get some more yardage out of fewer hops. In that case, I was calculating the cereal mash or decoction with a separate Beersmith file and scaling the IBUs to the final 5.5G. I've also hopped the strike/sparge water, which will sit at mash temps for most of the time anyway without the lower conversion of AA from the presence of malt.

This does work best for sour beers where you want very little IBU and will lose most of the hop character anyway. But 4-5% beers is a sweet spot for non-sours unless you use a good portion of syrups or a highly attenuating yeast. Sours with Roeselare are calculated out to get an extra % ABV because of the Brett/pedio. This would also be a good way to partial mash for higher OG.

The trick is to keep the mash out and sparge hot to pasteurize the wort - 180F seems to work. I've saved third runnings done with 120F water and they sour. In many cases people who batch sparge don't mash out - you must do this for this process. This hot mash out also kills off any leftover enzymes from the mash that could chew up the body of your beers during the chill. I do an overnight chill (popular in Australia and places where water is regulated) or put it in the fermentation chamber at low temp to pitch a few hours later.

My blonde ale and pumpkin ale are two non-sours of seven beers done this way (the saison I did ended up getting 1809 berliner weiss dregs). This probably wouldn't be feasible without modern sanitizers like Starsan. I'd be curious to see if this could scale up to commercial levels so you can cut out the expense of boiling as long as you can get some aggressive pricing on more hops.

Maybe I'll get to write one of those fancy front page articles on it someday. The pumpkin stout is on tap so I know it's good and the Aurora Blonde will showcase at a 'deck warming' party next weekend.

Edit: More notes - I got 1# each of 4.5AA% St. Goldings, 7.5AA% St. Aurora, and 13AA% Pacific Jade. Thinking back, I'd just stick to 7 - 14 AA% hops as you will need less and they cost about the same. At that rate, it's important to know which moderate/high AA hops aren't going to be harsh as aroma/flavor additions; screen out anything that doesn't make a good late addition hop. I calculate the mash hopping time as the mash time plus the 30 extra minutes for sparging.

As a reference: For my setup, 2oz 13AA% Pacific Jade mash hopping a 5G batch of 1.050 wort gives 20.3 IBU with Beersmith. That covers a range of styles but I haven't gotten up to an IPA yet.

Another thing is that I collect my wort in a 6.5G brew bucket. Better Bottles might deform and glass will crack. Buckets are PE/PP which will be good for the hot mashout/sparge. After the chill it is syphoned to the fermenter before pitching. This also allows further trub separation and now I always take an OG reading (and taste).

 

[Owly055]

Traditionally you don't boil berliner weiss. And in some instances people do no (or very low) boil wits to get them appropriately cloudy. I kind of ran with the idea and began adapting my process to avoid using so much equipment, having to manage propane, and wait out the boil/chill phases. Moving to an automated e-brewery where everything stays put is in the future though.

I think I've brewed six times in the past month which would have been five months of brews the old way. I get to brew more often because I don't have to convince SWMBO for a whole 8-10 hours to do my thing. I can do that in 3 now.

You'll need to use more hops to mash hop. It works. People don't like it when you mash hop and then boil away the hop compounds but in this case you won't. I'll use 1oz - 4oz of hops and I buy in bulk so the extra cost comes out less than the propane I'm not using. You can throw hops into a cereal mash or decoction (that's a boil, you cheat) to get some more yardage out of fewer hops. In that case, I was calculating the cereal mash or decoction with a separate Beersmith file and scaling the IBUs to the final 5.5G. I've also hopped the strike/sparge water, which will sit at mash temps for most of the time anyway without the lower conversion of AA from the presence of malt.

This does work best for sour beers where you want very little IBU and will lose most of the hop character anyway. But 4-5% beers is a sweet spot for non-sours unless you use a good portion of syrups or a highly attenuating yeast. Sours with Roeselare are calculated out to get an extra % ABV because of the Brett/pedio. This would also be a good way to partial mash for higher OG.

The trick is to keep the mash out and sparge hot to pasteurize the wort - 180F seems to work. I've saved third runnings done with 120F water and they sour. In many cases people who batch sparge don't mash out - you must do this for this process. This hot mash out also kills off any leftover enzymes from the mash that could chew up the body of your beers during the chill. I do an overnight chill (popular in Australia and places where water is regulated) or put it in the fermentation chamber at low temp to pitch a few hours later.

My blonde ale and pumpkin ale are two non-sours of seven beers done this way (the saison I did ended up getting 1809 berliner weiss dregs). This probably wouldn't be feasible without modern sanitizers like Starsan. I'd be curious to see if this could scale up to commercial levels so you can cut out the expense of boiling as long as you can get some aggressive pricing on more hops.

Maybe I'll get to write one of those fancy front page articles on it someday. The pumpkin stout is on tap so I know it's good and the Aurora Blonde will showcase at a 'deck warming' party next weekend.

Interesting to say the least........... I'm attacking the mash process to save time, and you are going after the boil. What occurs to me is that you could actually "can" your hops, making a "hop shot" sort of liquid you could add. Simply put hops in jars and cover with boiling water, put the lids on and put them in a hot water bath canner. Store the result in a dark cool place until needed. Some could be done like a hopback.... pour boiling water over them, put the lid on and drop the jars in warm water, cool the water as quickly as possible. Various processes would give different results. Add a measured amount of hop juice of various types at the end of the mash when you are mashing out. This would be particularly good way to handle fresh hops.

The hot break seems to me to be worth boiling for.....but how long is it necessary to boil for hot break? I can see my "inline mash" combined with a 15 minute boil. Stretch the mash out a bit for better fermentability, and cut the boil, and end up with a 90 minute process. The 15 minute boil would allow for some conventional hopping, and give a hot break. Using high bittering hops like Summit. Half an ounce of Summit gives a 2.5 gallon brew, an IBU of 36 with a 15 minute boil, and you still have that 15 minutes to toss in your flavor and aroma hops. DMS seems to be the main issue here, and I've been wondering about using an array of air stones during the boil to help bring it out. A hard 15 minute boil, with a steady aeration should help a lot.

H.W.

 

[Arrheinous]

Homemade pre-isomerized hop juice is a good idea. I'd already considered it. That'd probably be required for commercial scale.

You can scrub DMS out with CO2, you'll have to keg. But I imagine you lose some aromatics as well.

The pumpkin lambic I set up this weekend used 6.5# pilsener and 3.5# unmalted wheat. We'll see about what a lack of boiling to get rid of DMS and hotbreak will do... This is an extreme case for what I'm trying to do. I'm hoping the bugs can make use of both of those.

What I also have experimented with is putting Whirlfloc in the sparge water for mash out. This seemed to work on the blonde but I forgot with the lambic. Gelatin in the keg can apparently work wonders. Does forming hotbreak improve the effectiveness of those two? I need to read up more about that.

 

[Owly055]

Homemade pre-isomerized hop juice is a good idea. I'd already considered it. That'd probably be required for commercial scale.

You can scrub DMS out with CO2, you'll have to keg. But I imagine you lose some aromatics as well.

The pumpkin lambic I set up this weekend used 6.5# pilsener and 3.5# unmalted wheat. We'll see about what a lack of boiling to get rid of DMS and hotbreak will do... This is an extreme case for what I'm trying to do. I'm hoping the bugs can make use of both of those.

What I also have experimented with is putting Whirlfloc in the sparge water for mash out. This seemed to work on the blonde but I forgot with the lambic. Gelatin in the keg can apparently work wonders. Does forming hotbreak improve the effectiveness of those two? I need to read up more about that.

I'm obviously not looking at zero boil. Logically if I were to bitter at the beginning of a 30 minute boil, and use CO2 or air to scrub, I'm losing the aromatics I would lose in the full hour boil, so I should be at the same place as far as the bittering addition. Stopping the scrub process before adding later addition hops at say 10 minutes from the end of the boil, would eliminate that problem for those hops.

Hop Juice would allow you to sidestep that issue completely, but ideally It would be nice to freeze the hop juice. The big advantage I see with the hop juice for general brewing, is that you could pour boiling water right on the hops, and seal with no air space, cooling and capturing the aromatics. This could then be added directly to the bottle as bottling syrup, once you figured out the proper proportions. The results might be fantastic..........

H.W.

 

[Arrheinous]

A pressure cooker could be used to extra compounds from hops into the water. There shouldn't be a loss of anything from that if it's sealed.

 

[masonsjax]

If all you're after in late boil hops is aromatics, just rely on dry hopping. Pre isomerized hop juice has limited potential based on the fact that with a small amount of water, or wort, you can only hold so much oil before it's saturated. The rest would be wasted.

 

[Arrheinous]

That's a good point.

How is the commercial hop extract?

I'm not really looking to get any more bitterness than it takes to balance out a style.

 

[masonsjax]

I don't have a ton of personal experience using commercial extracts, but they are just the extracted oils, used just like real hops and thus will need to be boiled for bitterness.

 

[Arrheinous]

Morebeer has a pre-isomerized hop extract that will add bitterness.

$27/oz, can probably find it cheaper somewhere. But it looks like it will last a while. Should be good for adding 10 IBU to 5G of beer about 50 times.

Formula
To figure out the amount of IsoHop needed, you must first know:
- How many IBU's you want to add to your beer
- How many gallons you are going to add it to
Then take those numbers and plug them into this equation:
B x V x 0.0117/30 = I
Where B = IBU's required, V = volume of beer in barrels, and I = amount of IsoHop in Liters

For example: Say you want to add 10 IBU's to 10 gallons of beer. A quick Google search for "10 gallons to barrels" gives you the conversion of "10 US gallons = 0.322580645 barrels" - perfect! Now start plugging in the numbers - 10 x 0.3225 x 0.0117 = .0377/30 = .00125 liters, or 1.25ml. If you are bad with a pipette, about 20 drops per ml. The IsoHop has a 90% efficiency rate, so you will need to divide the number in liters by .9 - .00125/.9 = .00138 liters, or 1.38 ml.

 

[Owly055]

Morebeer has a pre-isomerized hop extract that will add bitterness.

$27/oz, can probably find it cheaper somewhere. But it looks like it will last a while. Should be good for adding 10 IBU to 5G of beer about 50 times.

Let's say I'm shooting for 20 IBUs for my bittering addition, on a 2.5 gallon brew. 1/3 of an ounce of Summit for 15 minutes boil will get me that 20 IBUs That is 1/3 of $2.50 lets say, or 83 cents.

Using this product, it would be the same amount to gain 10 IBUs on 5 gallons, or 1/50 of $27, or 54 cents.

In it's 3 month life expectance (actually 2-3), I would brew 12 batches, that means that I would only use about 25% before it was a throw away. That raises my cost to $2.16
I would need to share with other people, or brew more beer, or buy a smaller quantity to keep it fresh.

Summit hops are a far more cost effective tool brewing as I do. I don't really anticipate reducing the boil to much under half an hour. There are of course smaller quantity hop shots, but they are definitely NOT cost effective. The other alternative might be to use ethanol to dissolve the AAs out of the hops and make your own extract. This could be as simple as dropping a package of pellets in some Everclear, and leaving them to steep for an extended period of time in a cool dark place. I could then simply add a measured proportion to a brew after shaking well, and would probably get most of the bittering. Everclear is pretty darn cheap. I think, perhaps I'll try this with a packet of summit or magnum just out of curiosity. Just adding the hop pellets to a short boil is pretty economical though. It takes very little to get there in a half hour boil.

H.W.

 

[Arrheinous]

If the bittering does curb off after 2-3 months then use more rather than chuck it. Does 'not fresh' imply it's weaker or it's getting funky?

Morebeer says 3 months but you can store this at low temperature (like a beer fridge) and the manufacturer says it'll be good for 24 months. But... how long does it sit in a LHBS or warehouse at room temp?

It's a 30 cent difference, a penny or two per serving. And for my fast process it'll cut out a lot extra mash hops when trying to get just simple clean bitterness and doing so at >15 IBU. Now that I'm looking into it I'll probably add this Isohop stuff to my stockpile. This could open up bigger beers.

 

[brokebucket]

I skimmed thru this post and didnt see anything about it, so I will pose the question (excuse me if it were already covered):

I noticed the OP is using hot water, presumably from a water heater to get a jump on heating. I feel like I have heard this is not a good practice due to the scale that can build up in your water heater.

Thoughts?

 

[Owly055]

I skimmed thru this post and didnt see anything about it, so I will pose the question (excuse me if it were already covered):

I noticed the OP is using hot water, presumably from a water heater to get a jump on heating. I feel like I have heard this is not a good practice due to the scale that can build up in your water heater.

Thoughts?

Good point......... Where I live my well water is superb. It doesn't build up scale on things, so it isn't an issue. I know of a lot of places where I wouldn't dream of doing this. Even the coffee pot doesn't need to de-limed. I should go into the bottled water business. This is superior to most of the bottled water that's available.

H.W.

 

[TexasWine]

Hey Howard. Skimmed over your quest to cut down on the time spent waiting in your brew day. Not sure if anyone has shared this link with you, but it sounds like a way to save some time. I just bought two 1500 watt immersion heaters and I'm gonna give it a whirl with an STC-1000 I'm building.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=381737

Also, since you're doing small batches, have you considered heating up to strike temp in your oven? Some ovens come with a delay timer (at least mine does) and you could put your kettle and strike water in the oven the night before. The just set your timer and temp so that you're at strike temp when you wake up, or get home from work, or the bar.

Hope this helps in some way.

 

[Owly055]

I'm all gas....... and no timers. I have thought of hooking a hotplate up to a timer and PID controller. I've also considered doughing in an going to bed, or doughing in to cold water or 130 deg tap water, with my pump primed and ready to go, and having the PID set, with a timer to set the whole process in motion an 90 minutes before I get up in the AM. This would have the mash cycle complete by the time I got up, and would be very simple to build.


H.W.

 

[Arrheinous]

Filtering tap water followed by a tankless water heater could be an optimal setup. Those heaters are expensive but heat the water to temp as it flows by.

 

[Owly055]

Hey Howard. Skimmed over your quest to cut down on the time spent waiting in your brew day. Not sure if anyone has shared this link with you, but it sounds like a way to save some time. I just bought two 1500 watt immersion heaters and I'm gonna give it a whirl with an STC-1000 I'm building.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=381737

Also, since you're doing small batches, have you considered heating up to strike temp in your oven? Some ovens come with a delay timer (at least mine does) and you could put your kettle and strike water in the oven the night before. The just set your timer and temp so that you're at strike temp when you wake up, or get home from work, or the bar.

Hope this helps in some way.

It's another option......... It would pair with a PID controller and thermocouple, and provide me with properly heated strike water at the get go........... Thanks!

I'm also looking at using an ordinary hot plate, along with my cheap little pump, and doughing into hot tap water just before bedtime. A 24 hour timer ( I already have a good one), would energize the hotplate and pump, the PID would of course stay on so it held it's settings. At 4:00 AM or whatever time I calculated, it would kick on and heat the mash to 150 or so, while circulating, and hold it there until I got up. With BIAB this would work fine. When I got up, I'd lift the pot onto the main burner, crank up the heat and squeeze the bag.

My favorite idea is a simplified reverse circulation system with a grain tube above fluid level. When the heat reached mash temp (not strike temp), the pump would kick on and circulate up through the grain tube, returning the wort to the pot. The PID controller would maintain mash temp. The whole thing would operate on a timer, just like your coffee pot. When I got up at 6:00 am, I'd be ready to go straight to the boil. My pump would rest submerged in the water / wort, with the motor above. The wort would drain back down into the pot through the centrifugal pump when you shut the system off.

You pretty much gotta be there for the boil........ or buy a PicoBrew............


H.W.

 

[Arrheinous]

The Styrian Aurora Blonde I made (no boil) was killing it at the party today. This was done with no boil, a week and a half to ferment, then chilling and gelatin finings for three days. Came out very - but not perfectly - clear. And quite a bit of hoppiness.

1.042 OG (70% eff)
7.5# Maris Otter
0.5# White Wheat
Mash at 152
1oz Styrian Aurora in sparge/strike water; 2oz in mash
1qt WLP005 slurry
Ferment at 68F for 10 days
Dry hop 3 days with 1oz Glacier
Gelatin finings for 3 days

This beer took 2.5 hours to make, from taking out all the stuff to clean up.