cryo hops/lupulin powder dry hopping question

[Schlenkerla]

Two threads going at the same .

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=631451

 

[Schlenkerla]

Two threads going at the same time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=632757

 

[eric19312]

Any challenge getting these hops to incorporate into the whirlpool or as dry hop?

 

[jammin]

interesting to see all the confusion and mixed messaging on how to use this product.

it's simply the hop oils that have been separated from the flower. due to the high cost, logic would dictate that this should be reserved for dry hopping.

 

[eric19312]

So I brewed with the Citra cryohops this weekend. Really great smelling stuff! They are in pellet form, but more brown/yellow than pellet hops. I added them for a hop stand for an hour and I'm planning on doing two dry hop additions.

It smelled more "smooth" if that makes sense; no grassy or harsher vegetative smell. And a lot less trub. I'm looking forward to this one!

So the cryo hops are pellitized? Anyone using the ones from farmhouse?

 

[AOD]

I brewed 3 hoppy beers this weekend experimenting with CryoHops for the first time. I was under the impression dry hopping would be more difficult because the powder floats on the top of the wort, but commercial brewers can recirculate their fermenters. Homebrewers can use a marble.

That said my recipes were adjusted and mainly focused on using CryoHops late only and whirlpool only. I made the following beers:

1. Chug The Sunshine (Sip clone) 8% abv - replacing pellet 3oz of 5 min, and 3oz of whirlpool with CryoHops. I used 2oz CryoHop for each instead. Dry hopping is 3oz of Citra - I have 2oz of CryoHop left unopened. I should go for the dry CryoHop, right?
Or may blend 50/50 pellet.

2. Bissmissle IPA, 6% abv using a bittering pellet hop charge of about 50 IBU, I then went whirlpool only for the flavor and aroma additions with CryHops. 2oz each of Mosaic, Citra, Ekuanot (6oz total) whirpooled for 20 minutes.
I'm wondering if I should skip dry hop just to see what that mega huge WP addition did for the beer.
Thoughts?

3. Not a CryoHop beer, but I made a NEIPA with all Nelson Sauvignon hops. 4oz whirlpool addition, 4oz dry hop addition planned.

Will try to come report back on my results!

~Adam

 

[kristiismean]

I use citra Lupullin powder quite often and love it. Both whirlpool and dry hop with it. I find better results when whirlpooling at around 140.

The best beer was in a 9.02%, at first there was a little burn which I associated to the lupullin powder, but in about a week it went away, while kegged and in the fridge. here is that recipe:
15 lbs pale 2 row
1 lbs Biscuit
1 lbs corn sugar (dextrose)

1 oz apollo FWH
20 min 1 oz Centennial
20 min 1 oz Chinook
2 min 5ml Centennial co2 extract hop oil
0 min 1.5 oz Galaxy
0 min 1.5 oz Denali

140 degree hop stand 20 min with Lupulin Powder (Citra)

5 days 1.5 galaxy
5 days 1.5 Denali
4 days 1 oz lupullin Lupulin powder (Citra)
1 oz Crystal Hop hash

Yeast = Super healthy starter of Conan, fermented at 65 degrees.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Any challenge getting these hops to incorporate into the whirlpool or as dry hop?

I got some from a Country Malt Group rep at a festival back at the beginning of June. The sample I got wasn't pelletized, but the subsequent ones I've bought through my LHBS have been pelletized. I imagine the pelletized version would sink just fine, but the rep said the non-pelletized version could be challenging to use for dry hopping because it had a tendency to float. I played around with it in the form of a tincture. I used a small glass vial topped up with vodka, then shook the hell out of it for a few days. Once it was fully wetted, floating was not an issue, so just a heads up if you run into issues with it floating.

 

[jpakstis]

So the cryo hops are pellitized? Anyone using the ones from farmhouse?

Mine were. They wee from YCH.

 

[Sbe2]

I messed up on my last order and forgot to order some for my DH:smack:

 

[Sbe2]

3. Not a CryoHop beer, but I made a NEIPA with all Nelson Sauvignon hops. 4oz whirlpool addition, 4oz dry hop addition planned.

~Adam

I think I just had a mouth orgasm

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Tried an APA hombrew with mosaic cryo hops last week. Holy mother of flavor, and only 1 oz in the dry hop!

 

[Schlenkerla]

I think I just had a mouth orgasm

Puke of joy?

 

[Creative_Juicez]

I just kegged a batch using the Equanot LUPULN2 Cryo hops. I added 1/2 oz. at flameout, then another 1/2 oz. at below 180. Dry hopped with another ounce at High Krausen, and then kegged and added 2 more oz.

I tasted it last night after 2 full days in the keg- it's still pretty young, but the hop character is present for sure. Nice bitterness, a little bit of spiciness, and maybe some melon coming through. Hopefully I didn't over-do it with these hops. The first couple oz. were free samples from a pro brewer in town.

 

[bierhaus15]

I've used Cryohops for a while now, both professionally and as a home brewer. First, while the "cryo" product is nice, you can basically get the same thing from a T45 pellet for substantially less cost. Whether or not you can find T45 varietal specific pellets is another story.

Overall, the cryo/powder does impart a strong hoppiness, although it tends to come across as resinous and pine/dank. "Raw hoppiness" is a good descriptor. Comparing cryo to t90 of the same variety, the t90 is more rounded/fruity, with the cryo stronger/resinous. In sensory, people actually preferred t90 hops over cryo in terms of aroma/flavor, although a blend of the two was the best.

I am of the opinion that using cryo outside of whirlpool/DH is a waste. Usage rate is generally 1/2 amount of T90 hops. Interestingly, there was little gain in hop oils using cryo past 1 lb/bbl, tested via GCMS.

Some people have mentioned the difficulty of getting the cryo/powder to dissolve in their beer. This is often a problem and the product does very well with re-circulation. This is hard to do for home brewers, but on the pro side it works great and the benefits are greatly increased hop aroma/flavor (2-3X!) over static or periodically 'roused' dry hopping.

So... use cryo at approx 1/2 the amount of pellets and blend with regular whole leaf/pellets. Use mainly in whirlpool (reduced temps) and dry hopping, recirculate for a short period at warm temps if possible.

 

[Cman123]

I just used them and am very impressed

 

[microbusbrewery]

So... use cryo at approx 1/2 the amount of pellets and blend with regular whole leaf/pellets. Use mainly in whirlpool (reduced temps) and dry hopping, recirculate for a short period at warm temps if possible.

Awesome info bierhaus. Kind of on a related note, I bought a Blichmann QuickCarb on a whim about a week ago. I really had no plan to buy one but I was talking with the guys at one of our LHBS about it and they were commenting about how nice it was to be able to carb and drink hop-focused beers as fresh as possible. That got me to thinking... could the QuickCarb be used in conjunction with cryo hops to add significant aroma/flavor during the carb process. Seems like it should work, but I'm wondering if the powder will clog in the posts/disconnects...or is it fine enough that it will flow right through? Has anybody tried this yet? I have an APA and an IPA that I'm planning on carbing in the next week that I was thinking of trying this on. Assuming it doesn't clog, do you (bierhouse) think an hour or two if recirculation is enough time to extract a decent amount of extra flavor/aroma?

 

[Sbe2]

Puke of joy?

That feeling you get when your mouth gets watery and you smack the roof of your mouth with your tongue....Don't know how else to describe it without ya know....i will stop

 

[phishheadmi]

I've used the pelletized version a couple of times now, with no problems...they seem to sink as well or better than standard pellets.

I have that citra smash cold crashing now, will probably keg tonight or tomorrow. I did two, one-ounce cryo citra dry hop additions. The gravity sample smelled and tasted great...can't wait to get it carbed up!

Also, have in the fermenter right now, a Deschutes fresh squeezed inspired IPA that used cryo citra and mosaic for the late additions and will use more cryo citra for the dry hop.

 

[phishheadmi]

Damn, I wish I'd bought more of this stuff when Williams had it on sale recently!

Just polished off that Citra SMASH keg and it was pretty amazing. Citra aroma and flavor was off the charts...no harsh or grassy flavors.

I only have one oz of the citra left, wish I had at least two for the IPA I have wrapping up primary right now. I guess I'll have to hit it with an oz of the cryo and maybe a couple oz of regular citra.

I'm in a bit of a time crunch, I'd like to dry hope and carb at the same time. Has anyone dry hopped with cryo pellets in a keg? I have a fine mesh hop sock, wondering if I could dry hop in that, in a keg without having to transfer to another keg for serving.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Damn, I wish I'd bought more of this stuff when Williams had it on sale recently!

Just polished off that Citra SMASH keg and it was pretty amazing. Citra aroma and flavor was off the charts...no harsh or grassy flavors.

I only have one oz of the citra left, wish I had at least two for the IPA I have wrapping up primary right now. I guess I'll have to hit it with an oz of the cryo and maybe a couple oz of regular citra.

I'm in a bit of a time crunch, I'd like to dry hope and carb at the same time. Has anyone dry hopped with cryo pellets in a keg? I have a fine mesh hop sock, wondering if I could dry hop in that, in a keg without having to transfer to another keg for serving.

I think early on somebody said they used a pantyhose stocking.

I'd fill the toe/foot and tie it off, clip it with scissors, drop it into your keg and then gas the sucker.

Some have said whirl pooling is the best for this hop.

If you have a French coffee press make a cryo tea. Boil some water, add the hops to the press, add water, stir well, then steep them for 10-15 minutes, at then end of the steep, plunge and pour that into a keg.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Awesome info bierhaus. Kind of on a related note, I bought a Blichmann QuickCarb on a whim about a week ago. I really had no plan to buy one but I was talking with the guys at one of our LHBS about it and they were commenting about how nice it was to be able to carb and drink hop-focused beers as fresh as possible. That got me to thinking... could the QuickCarb be used in conjunction with cryo hops to add significant aroma/flavor during the carb process. Seems like it should work, but I'm wondering if the powder will clog in the posts/disconnects...or is it fine enough that it will flow right through? Has anybody tried this yet? I have an APA and an IPA that I'm planning on carbing in the next week that I was thinking of trying this on. Assuming it doesn't clog, do you (bierhouse) think an hour or two if recirculation is enough time to extract a decent amount of extra flavor/aroma?

You can do that with the quick carb but very vary careful of oxidizing. You should purge that keg very well and rack under pressure if you can. Just a bit of o2 could be a real challenge with this process. You don't want to oxidize the beer.

 

[Sbe2]

If you have a French coffee press make a cryo tea. Boil some water, add the hops to the press, add water, stir well, then steep them for 10-15 minutes, at then end of the steep, plunge and pour that into a keg.

I loved this idea when I was bottling. My plan was to add the hop tea to my bottling bucket, and add beer on top of it to from the primary.

But I now keg, and wonder how one can do this while doing a closed transfer?

 

[Schlenkerla]

I loved this idea when I was bottling. My plan was to add the hop tea to my bottling bucket, and add beer on top of it to from the primary.

But I now keg, and wonder how one can do this while doing a closed transfer?

I have been brewing for a long time. I don't worry about oxidation, but I don't splash either. I would just pour that into the keg and then transfer on top of it and call it done. The worry of oxidation is like yeast autolysis was in the 80's. Its possible but not an issue at the home brewers level. I don't brew the same beer twice in a year. If I did, i don't have temp control in order to have it be consistent. I do select the right yeast for the season. My $0.02

 

[thehaze]

I loved this idea when I was bottling. My plan was to add the hop tea to my bottling bucket, and add beer on top of it to from the primary.

But I now keg, and wonder how one can do this while doing a closed transfer?

How much hops would you use for say 5-5.5 gallons of beer when bottling? I also think of making hop tea and mixing it with the priming sugar and transfer the beer on top of it and bottle.

Would the hop tea oxidise or actually give the beer more aroma and possibly favour?

 

[Sbe2]

How much hops would you use for say 5-5.5 gallons of beer when bottling? I also think of making hop tea and mixing it with the priming sugar and transfer the beer on top of it and bottle.

Would the hop tea oxidise or actually give the beer more aroma and possibly favour?

People are saying that the Cryo hops are potent, so I would make the hop tea with only an ounce. Especially if they are $5/oz and only experimenting. If using pellets, I was thinking of using around 2-3 oz. But, I don't know how many oz a 8 cup French press would hold, so I would have prolly gone with 2.

When I bottled I thought I was oxidizing my IPAs. After a month, the last 12 or so beers, the beers would fall flat in aroma and flavor. I tried a lot of methods, even bottling a few points above FG.

As far as the hop tea, I thought I could keep the aroma and flavor for those final bottles. But, I didn't make it that far and just started kegging.

It would be interesting to read about your results. I gave in and started to stock pile kegging hardware.

 

[Schlenkerla]

People are saying that the Cryo hops are potent, so I would make the hop tea with only an ounce. Especially if they are $5/oz and only experimenting. If using pellets, I was thinking of using around 2-3 oz. But, I don't know how many oz a 8 cup French press would hold, so I would have prolly gone with 2.

When I bottled I thought I was oxidizing my IPAs. After a month, the last 12 or so beers, the beers would fall flat in aroma and flavor. I tried a lot of methods, even bottling a few points above FG.

As far as the hop tea, I thought I could keep the aroma and flavor for those final bottles. But, I didn't make it that far and just started kegging.

It would be interesting to read about your results. I gave in and started to stock pile kegging hardware.

In general, late additions don't last very long. The flavor dissipates over time. That's why dog fish head invented the Randall. It's an inline water filter, filled with hops (a hop infuser) on the serving line.

I haven't tried these yet, but I was thinking this type of hop would turn that hop flavor degradation to a non issue.

I have four different cryo hops ready to use. I'm planning to make a west coast amber made with cascade. 60, 5, and 0.

 

[beersk]

...

I was under the impression dry hopping would be more difficult because the powder floats on the top of the wort, but commercial brewers can recirculate their fermenters. Homebrewers can use a marble.

...

~Adam

Wait, what? Who is recirculating their fermenters? That sounds like a terrible idea. But I have heard that the cryo hops float (when dumped into the fermenter) from the head brewer at the brewery I'm helping out at.

I've only brewed with cryo hops once. It was Loral lupulin powder that I used in a helles and it's still lagering, so not sure how it'll taste yet. But I love the idea of using hop injectors for FWH or bittering addition and cryo hops at flameout/whirlpool. Less trub and vegetal matter - Perfect.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Wait, what? Who is recirculating their fermenters? That sounds like a terrible idea. But I have heard that the cryo hops float (when dumped into the fermenter) from the head brewer at the brewery I'm helping out at.

I know of few that are recirculating their dry hops. Sierra Nevada with their torpedo was probably the first one that I heard of, but I know there are quite a few commercial breweries doing it now (bierhaus15 mentions it in post 45). As long as you have the ability to purge oxygen and everything is properly sanitized, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure some pumps are better than others for this too (e.g. peristaltic pump, diaphragm pump).

Re the floating, it seems that can be an issue if it's not pelletized. I experimented with some in powder form in a tincture with vodka and I can confirm that once it's wetted in vodka, it no longer floats.

 

[DemonsRun]

Nice little articles on some breweries experiences w/cryo-hops
http://scottjanish.com/lupulin-powder-vs-pellets-experiment/

https://d3b8rq9ztst8vv.cloudfront.net/docs/HBS-Brewing-with-Lupulin-Powder-Joe-Mohrfeld.pdf?mtime=20161216133306