Critique of my first clone attempt, please

[HopHoarder]

I sampled my "Tag Fug" #1 clone today. See the image for a visual comparison...Fat Tug on left and Tag Fug #1 on the right. My TF is a bit darker and redder and the head isn't quite as white. Probably too much Munich/ CaraMunich. As for the taste, the dryhop aroma is very similar but mine seemed a bit more pungent; probably due to all that Centennial that I hopbacked with. Taste is pretty similar but mine I think is a bit maltier. As for hop profile, mine tasted a bit "cleaner" meaning a bit less bittering on the backend. I'm getting with the FT a bit more Centennial on the front end (a bit of dankness, but in a good way) and I'm guessing they went a bit heavier on earlier hop additions than I did.
Overall though I'd say it's pretty close and my tweaks on #2 and 3 I believe went the right way, so we'll see how the following two TF's comapre.

 

[MoreHops]

I took a grav reading today (1.012) after 6 days in primary, so I'm already up to 7.8% ABV (according to Beersmith calc). My yeast were efficient little guys!
The color is sorta close, but Chubby Boat is a bit redder so I might dial back the munich by about 3/4. It's also hard to tell as the Fat Tug (on the right) is clear, whereas Chubby Boat (on the left) is cloudy, so it's a bit of apples vs. oranges comparison. The taste is fantastic and quite hop-forward. Hard to compare the flavor right now because it hasn't been dry-hopped yet. Racking it to secondary now and dry-hopping with 1 oz each cent, casc, and amarillo.

 

[HopHoarder]

Sounds good MH. I noticed the redness in my beer faded after the secondary and bottle conditioning. I'll be transferring TatFug #3 to secondary today and bottling #2 on Tuesday.

 

[HopHoarder]

Bottled tatfug #2 today and moved #3 to secondary. Dryhopping #3 with 1oz Amarillo and. 5oz each of Cascade and Falconer's Flight. Should be yummy.

 

[MoreHops]

@HopHoarder: Will you be attending the VanBrewers meet next week? Bringing any Tat Fug?

 

[HopHoarder]

Nope I'm not a member of VanBrewers and it's a bit too far for me. I'll probably bring some to the Chilliwack Homebrewers meeting next week though.

 

[HopHoarder]

I sampled a TatFug #2 today 5 days after bottling. Both my wifey and I agree that #2 is closer to the FatTug than #1 was. The 2oz of Citra in dryhop turned out nicely but could have been stronger in aroma. I'll be bottling #3 on Monday or Tuesday

 

[MoreHops]

Bottled Chubby Boat on Sat. Final grav = 1.010, so it ended up at 7.9% ABV. A bit high. Had a wee taste -- was great! But got some residual sweetness which I hope will mellow out with time and get offset by the CO2. I usually bottle-condition for 3 weeks at room temp, but I'll probably crack a bottle in another week or so to gauge the progress...

@HopHoarder: Did you get any feedback re. TatFug at the Chilliwack meeting?

 

[HopHoarder]

I didn't bring any of my clones to the meeting, but a friend of mine is coming over pretty soon to offer another opinion. I tasted #3 last night after a week in the bottle and I'd have to say that the hop profile is the closest of the three. Nice citrusy nose, citrus bomb in the front and lingering bitterness on the backend. I think next time though I'll do a bit more Summit in the bittering and try a hopstand during flameout/ whirlpool for even more flavour/ aroma.
Grainbill with #3 I'd say is also pretty close...85% basemalt, 10% crystal and 5% carapils or something close to that.
I think the moral here is to not be afraid of using too much hops; especially in late additions and in the dryhop.

 

[HopHoarder]

Okay so my hophead friend, my wife and I sampled all three of my clones against the actual fat tug and decided unanimously that clone #1 was the closest of the three. It seems that clone #1 mellowed out a bit over the past few weeks and was the closest in colour, maltiness and hop profile of the three, to which I was quite surprised. Still though I think I'd tweak my #1 clone slightly as it was still a bit darker and redder than the true Fat Tug and also needed a bit more of that "dank" bitterness that Fat Tug has, so if I were to do a clone #4 I'd go with this recipe based on a two gallon batch:


0.50 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
4.4 lbs Superior Pale Malt (3.1 SRM)
3/4 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM)
3.0 oz Caramunich Malt (40.0 SRM)
0.50 oz Summit [16.00 %] - Boil 45 min
0.25 oz Centennial [10.00%] Boil 45 min
1.00 Items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10 min Hop 8 10.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10 min Hop 9 13.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5 min Hop 10 7.6 IBUs

Hopstand @ flameout:
0.50 oz Centennial
0.50 oz Cascade

0.5 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days

I think that would get you pretty darn close.

 

[MoreHops]

So I tried my Chubby Boat today. It's pretty-darn tasty. But nowhere close to Fat Tug. I think you're right (or at least closer) with your hypothetical 4th batch:

...a two gallon batch:
0.50 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
4.4 lbs Superior Pale Malt (3.1 SRM)
3/4 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM)
3.0 oz Caramunich Malt (40.0 SRM)
0.50 oz Summit [16.00 %] - Boil 45 min
0.25 oz Centennial [10.00%] Boil 45 min
1.00 Items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10 min Hop 8 10.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10 min Hop 9 13.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5 min Hop 10 7.6 IBUs

Hopstand @ flameout:
0.50 oz Centennial
0.50 oz Cascade

0.5 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days

I'll try that in a few weeks (got other batches fermenting and am with limited equipment/space)...

 

[Bablitz]

Will watch this thread (and Blog) with interest. This is one of my favorite beers and I would love to brew something even close. Have had it multiple times and have noticed some variation (to my senses..) which I have chalked up to age/freshness. So, in the interest of science, I am going to the brewery this week to sample some of the freshest possible off the growler station...
I have heard through the grapevine that if you are polite and bring a sterile container to the brewery it is possible for them to pull off some yeast for you... I'll look into this for you guys. It might be worth the trip over for you if this is true.

Cheers

 

[HopHoarder]

Hmmm Im in Victoria right now but got a growler of Switchback IPA from Lighthouse (another fine IPA). Would be rather unusual for them to give out their yeast.

 

[Bablitz]

Hmmm Im in Victoria right now but got a growler of Switchback IPA from Lighthouse (another fine IPA). Would be rather unusual for them to give out their yeast.

Just passing on what I have heard, will update later...currently consuming a pint of switchback at the Crow and Gate pub in Cedar now!

Cheers

 

[Bablitz]

 

[Bablitz]

Visited Driftwood today, picked up a growler of Fat Tug! They crop yeast on Wednesday's, best to talk to them on the Tuesday to figure out when during the day they might do this. It is a Chico strain that they use for Fat Tug. The other available yeast is a Deschutes strain.
Hope this helps you out.

 

[Bablitz]

Will be consumed today!

 

[HopHoarder]

Good to know about the yeast. I think though I'll keep using the US-05 or my pacman yeast.

 

[jman]

Loves me some Fat Tug! i'm happy to say that we get it from time to time here in Bellingham, WA and i've been lucky enough to tear through a large number of pints in Victoria, as well. didnt make it to the brewery, but i scratched the itch while spending quite a bit of time in the Bard & Banker. great spot!

anyways, here is what i'm going to be mixing up in the next day or two. i simplified the grain bill a little and dropped the caramunich. i hit 100 IBUs on the nose, so hopefully i can hit my OG.

i'm going all-in with an 11 gallon batch. i'll split this between 2 fermentors and will use S-04 in one, US-05 in the other.


Ingredients

24 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 87.5 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) 7.1 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) 5.4 %

2.00 oz Summit [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 50.3 IBUs
1.25 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 18.5 IBUs
2.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min 13.4 IBUs
2.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min 10.3 IBUs
4.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min 7.7 IBUs
2.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
2.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days 0.0 IBUs


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.069 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.2 %
Bitterness: 100.1 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 9.4 SRM

 

[HopHoarder]

That sounds great but why use S-04 in an IPA? That's a pretty high flocculating yeast that would likely take a lot of the hop flavour out of your beer.

 

[jman]

That sounds great but why use S-04 in an IPA? That's a pretty high flocculating yeast that would likely take a lot of the hop flavour out of your beer.

i split 10-12gallon batches (i make predominantly APAs and IPAs) between US-05 and S-04 all the time and have never noticed a lack of hop flavor in the S-04 beers. i tend to primary in the 64-66 range to keep down the esters. sure, it will bring out the malt a little more than the US-05, but this is one big experiment anyways. i want to see how it affects things in this case so going forward i know which one i prefer for the next round.

 

[Fluxone]

all the recipes in here look generally good - what i have found though is all the late hop additions might be better used in the flame out

get your bittering hop to do the heavy lifting and do a 75-90min boil

then take all the mid range hop additions and put them in at flameout instead

whirlpool the crap out of them - what, you dont whirlpool? you are missing out!

even better - get the wort temp down a bit - then add the aroma hops - more of the aroma will be saved as the aromas are also volatile at higher temps

seems to me the magic in these IPAs is in the aroma - which is all about late additions and dry hopping

I have a suspicion though that most of the commercial breweries are cheating and using extracts on the majority of these bitter and aromatic PNW IPAs - as a home brewer this is outside of my interests but non-the-less legit for commercial purposes

best PNW styled citrusy aroma hops - centennial, cascade, citra

ps. I am in vancouver canada

 

[HopHoarder]

Yes good advice all around Fluxone. I'm not sure about the extract thing though, but who knows. I'm really not sure why the longer boil though. Wouldn't a 60 minute boil for an IPA be enough? While Summit may not be a great citrusy aroma hop, it certainly is a great citrusy bittering hop.

 

[newtonjason]

Wondering how these turned out? I will be brewing something nearly the same recipe this weekend and would like to see how it came together at a vanbrewers meeting

http://forums.vanbrewers.ca/showthread.php/173-Driftwood-Fat-Tug-IPA-clone

 

[MoreHops]

My first Chubby Boat was entered into the VanBrewers competition. The scores from 3 judges were 18, 24, and 20. They all agreed that it wasn't a bad beer, but that it was very off-style -- it was more like a Belgian IPA than and American IPA -- so it didn't score well in the AIPA category; it was hot (alcoholic), phenolic, and solvent-y (fusel alcohols). It also had a "spicy yeast with plum and leather/treacle". When I brewed it, I didn't have proper control on my ferm temps, so it probably got a little too warm. Or I got some wild yeast in there (even though I was quite rigorous with sanitization). My wife's co-worker absolutely loves it and wants more, but I've only got 1 bottle of it left, so I'll bring it to VanBrewers meeting on the May 30.

Taking the judges comments, and what I've learned through this thread and from the VanBrewers forum, I brewed another version (recipe below) 2 weeks ago. Some of the judges for Chubby Boat 1.0 said there was little hop flavour/aroma, so I up'd the late-hop additions in this new version. I also have been using my newly-constructed ferm chamber, holding the beer at 16.5 degC. I'm racking it to secondary and dry-hopping this aft. That being said, I had a major problem with my grain crush that I didn't notice until after I brewed when I was taking the spent grain out to the compost, so my pre-boil gravity was 1.043 (should've been ~1.061). I managed to partially rescue it with some DME and dextrose and got the OG to 1.059, but is still 10 points off the expected value (1.069). So this beer will likely not be a good representation of the recipe listed below... I'll need to attempt it again...

Recipe: Chubby Boat v2.0
Brewer: MoreHops
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.0 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.5 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.0 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.0 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 9.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 101.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.60 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
3.60 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
11 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt, 2 row (Gambrinus) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 72.6 %
2 lbs 12.0 oz Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 17.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.5 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.2 %
0.75 oz Summit [17.90 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 40.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Summit [17.90 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 8 22.5 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 -
1.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 11.6 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [9.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 14.6 IBUs
2.00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 12 -
1.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 6.4 IBUs
1.50 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 5.6 IBUs
1.50 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [9.80 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 m Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Summit [17.90 %] - Aroma Steep 20.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast (with a 1.4L starter) 18 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [7.80 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [6.90 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 19.34 l of water at 76.6 C 66.7 C 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.0 gal water at 75.6 C
Notes:
------
From HBT thread, learned that Chico strain is used at Driftwood (Wyeast 1056?), and to go easy on salts; just get Ca up to 50ppm.

 

[HopHoarder]

The recipe looks good MH but I would take out the Summit for aroma steep and leave that particular hop just for bittering (I've heard that using summit for aroma/ late additions gives off an oniony smell). The 1056 should give you a cleaner yeast, especially if you keep the temps down to 16c in fermentation.
I quite enjoyed all three of my TatFugs and will be brewing a TatFug #4 in the near future.

 

[CaribouBrewmasters]

Looks alright to me. I have an extract based recipe I have made for Fat Tug. I presteep my grains at 153 F for 30 minutes. I make 12 gallon batches (about 48 liters).

This is my recipe. Forgive my lazy layout and lazy recipe, but my god does it do the trick.

Steep@153 for 30 min.
350g Munich
100g Crystal 60L
150g Crystal 40L
175g Crystal 10L

1.5 Tablespoons Gypsum

After steep, Add

8L Pale LME
1L Amber LME

Hot break

After hot break

60.0 min - 48g Cascade @ 6%AA
60.0 min - 34g Centennial @ 8.7%AA
60.0 min - 15g Columbus @ 13.9%aa

15 min - 30g Centennial + 3 Irish Moss Tablets

Heat off
5 min - 160g Cascade (whole) @ 7.1%AA
5 min - 160g Citra (whole) @ 13.4%AA

Day 5 of ferment Dry Hop
60g Cascade (whole)
60g Citra (whole)

I use either WYeast NW Ale or American II depending on what I have. Then I bottle condition. I believe that covers most of what I do.

 

[fishprowler]

Looks alright to me. I have an extract based recipe I have made for Fat Tug. I presteep my grains at 153 F for 30 minutes. I make 12 gallon batches (about 48 liters).

This is my recipe. Forgive my lazy layout and lazy recipe, but my god does it do the trick.

Steep@153 for 30 min.
350g Munich
100g Crystal 60L
150g Crystal 40L
175g Crystal 10L

1.5 Tablespoons Gypsum

After steep, Add

8L Pale LME
1L Amber LME

Hot break

After hot break

60.0 min - 48g Cascade @ 6%AA
60.0 min - 34g Centennial @ 8.7%AA
60.0 min - 15g Columbus @ 13.9%aa

15 min - 30g Centennial + 3 Irish Moss Tablets

Heat off
5 min - 160g Cascade (whole) @ 7.1%AA
5 min - 160g Citra (whole) @ 13.4%AA

Day 5 of ferment Dry Hop
60g Cascade (whole)
60g Citra (whole)

I use either WYeast NW Ale or American II depending on what I have. Then I bottle condition. I believe that covers most of what I do.

CaribouBrewmasters - would it be safe to cut this recipe in 1/3 to make a 4 gallon batch? Or would you have any recommendations?? (A 5 gallon batch would be most preferred)

I'm really interested in trying this out as Fat Tug is such a fantastic IPA, however I'm not setup to make a 12 gallon batch.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[fishprowler]

Also could I sub "light gold" LME for the Pale LME??

 

[tonsobeer]

Driftwoods base malt is superior pils. Hope it this helps.