Critique my water profile

[azdavid]

I am trying to wrap my head around adjusting my water for mashing.
I will be using all RO and adding salts to the mash only no sparge additions. This is what I have come up with for a cream ale style brew.
How much of an impact will it have if the Chloride/sulfate ratio is this low ?
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

That looks quite acceptable for a cream ale. The chloride to sulphate is balanced, but is an over-rated measure anyway. Both are low which is where you want them for a beer of this style.

I'd personally just add CaCl2 to get 40ppm Calcium and a little bit of table salt, but I don't like dry hop bitterness.

 

[dmtaylor]

Ratio doesn't matter. If you want to enhance the malt, use calcium chloride. To enhance hops, use gypsum. And if you want to enhance both, use both. Ignore "the ratio". There is no magic to "the ratio".

 

[azdavid]

Thanks for the feedback. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't totally out in left field with these numbers.

I will start with this and adjust a bit on the next brew if it comes out a bit to hoppy or malty

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the feedback. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't totally out in left field with these numbers.

I will start with this and adjust a bit on the next brew if it comes out a bit to hoppy or malty

If it comes out "too malty", that's due to the malt selection. If it comes out "too hoppy", that is due to the hops selection and amount.

Water does NOT make a beer hoppy or malty, no matter how much sulfate or chloride you put into it.

What chloride does is enhance the "roundness" or "fullness" of the beer, while sulfate enhances "dryness" and "crispness", for lack of better terms.

Because people like IPAs to finish dry, sulfate can enhance that perception. It does NOT increase hops flavor or produce a hoppier beer.

Chloride helps with the perception of malt fullness in the mouthfeel, but does not make the beer maltier.

In this case, I'd shoot for a mash pH of 5.4 or so, using lactic acid to get there, and use a bit of calcium chloride to bring the chloride up and the calcium to 40-50 ppm (to enhance yeast flocculation for a clearer beer).

 

[azdavid]

Thanks for the clarification Yooper. I based my comment on the Chloride /Sulfate ratio statement that it may enhance bitterness.

I have adjusted based on your comments to get the chloride and calcium in the 40 - 50 range this should give me a better balance between fullness and dryness.

Also going out on a limb here but I am a complete newbie with water but I assume the lactic acid should also be added to the mash water?

Thanks again

 

[hlmbrwng]

If it comes out "too malty", that's due to the malt selection. If it comes out "too hoppy", that is due to the hops selection and amount.

Water does NOT make a beer hoppy or malty, no matter how much sulfate or chloride you put into it.

What chloride does is enhance the "roundness" or "fullness" of the beer, while sulfate enhances "dryness" and "crispness", for lack of better terms.

Because people like IPAs to finish dry, sulfate can enhance that perception. It does NOT increase hops flavor or produce a hoppier beer.

Chloride helps with the perception of malt fullness in the mouthfeel, but does not make the beer maltier.

In this case, I'd shoot for a mash pH of 5.4 or so, using lactic acid to get there, and use a bit of calcium chloride to bring the chloride up and the calcium to 40-50 ppm (to enhance yeast flocculation for a clearer beer).

Reviving an old thread. I was worried because there is conflicting information on the intrawebs and in at least one book. In the book "Brewing beyond the basics, Mr. Karnowski says that a 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio is good for a hop forward beer. On the America Homebrewers Association website, they say that for a New England style IPA, "use a high ratio of chloride to sulfate in your water treatment". Complete opposite. I just brewed a beer of this style and went with 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio, only because that is the information I found first. It will be interesting to experiment with this. Maybe next time I will invert the ratio and see what happens.

Link to AHA page

 

[motosapiens]

Reviving an old thread. I was worried because there is conflicting information on the intrawebs and in at least one book. In the book "Brewing beyond the basics, Mr. Karnowski says that a 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio is good for a hop forward beer. On the America Homebrewers Association website, they say that for a New England style IPA, "use a high ratio of chloride to sulfate in your water treatment". Complete opposite. I just brewed a beer of this style and went with 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio, only because that is the information I found first. It will be interesting to experiment with this. Maybe next time I will invert the ratio and see what happens.

Link to AHA page

warning, you're going to get the ratio police agitated. I would rather speak in terms of more chloride than sulfate, or vice versa rather than ratio, because it is really the amounts of each that matter. I currently have 2 versions of a NE pale in process. I did them the exact same except one of them I used more chloride and low sulfate, and the other one I did the opposite. I have to wait a couple weeks to taste them side by side, but initial samples during processing suggest there is in fact a noticeable difference. I *think* I will probably prefer the one with more chloride and less sulfate.

IIRC, I went about 150/50 chloride/sulfate on one, and 180/40 sulfate chloride on the other.

 

[dmtaylor]

Ratio cop reporting for duty.

Don't tell us the ratio you've used. Tell us the total amount of chloride and sulfate, each, in ppm. They affect flavor independent of one another.

 

[hlmbrwng]

Ratio cop reporting for duty.

Don't tell us the ratio you've used. Tell us the total amount of chloride and sulfate, each, in ppm. They affect flavor independent of one another.

Approximately 160ppm sulfate, 50 ppm chloride

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Yep, ratio is sort of useful if you are talking the same total ion content each time, just changing the ratio. But the actual amounts are far more useful.

The different 'ratios' quoted for IPA's are for two different styles. A more traditional IPA is quite bitter and dry - this is enhanced by a high sulfate content. A NE IPA is more focused on hop aroma and flavor, often quoted as being 'juicy'. More chloride pushes the sweetness perception that supports the 'juiciness'. Note that a high chloride to sulfate ratio might only mean one to one (normally in the 100 to 150ppm range).

 

[hlmbrwng]

Yep, ratio is sort of useful if you are talking the same total ion content each time, just changing the ratio. But the actual amounts are far more useful.

The different 'ratios' quoted for IPA's are for two different styles. A more traditional IPA is quite bitter and dry - this is enhanced by a high sulfate content. A NE IPA is more focused on hop aroma and flavor, often quoted as being 'juicy'. More chloride pushes the sweetness perception that supports the 'juiciness'. Note that a high chloride to sulfate ratio might only mean one to one (normally in the 100 to 150ppm range).

I guess it's a good opportunity for me to experiment. After I finish this one, I'll do it again with the different amounts of chloride and sulfate.