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Crazy yeast bag idea?

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...Would it be possible to have a fine mesh bag for the yeast to sit in... I know I'm kinda crazy...

This sums it up quite well. :mug:
Throwing a bunch of brewing terms and equipment together does not automatically create beer.

Innovation is great and visionaries are capable of breaking traditional boundaries. So exactly why are you asking questions here?
 
IslandLizard said:
This sums it up quite well. :mug: Throwing a bunch of brewing terms and equipment together does not automatically create beer. Innovation is great and visionaries are capable of breaking traditional boundaries. So exactly why are you asking questions here?
I should rephrase my question: "what if I were to put kind of a very fine false bottom on to collect the trub and yeast then pulled it up after primary fermentation". I'm asking questions to see if it's even possible. Otherwise I'm just wasting time and money.
 
could you make the fermenter able to hold pressure? if so you could ferment under pressure to carbonate then rack to bottles with Co2
 
I should rephrase my question: "what if I were to put kind of a very fine false bottom on to collect the trub and yeast then pulled it up after primary fermentation". I'm asking questions to see if it's even possible. Otherwise I'm just wasting time and money.

The problem is that I don't think you'd get a mesh fine enough to actually capture any of it. As you pulled it back up through the beer, you'd just be dispersing most of it back into the finished beer. The exact opposite of what you are trying to do. I think you'd get some trub out, but that, which you'd leave behind would just make a mighty mess of your beer as well as probably give you oxidizing issues as your mess around trying to get the bag out. to get a filter fine enough, the draining time would be crazy. Yeast are microscopic, you just see them because there are so many of them piled up.
 
A yeast cell is (according to Wikipedia, I can't measure this myself at home) on average 4-5 microns and you can't get a mesh that small. The yeast would inevitably escape the bag during active fermentation and disperse throughout the beer. There was a thread about using yeast beads a while ago that was interesting and may yield good results for this type of project as they are much larger: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-immobilization-magic-beans-fermentation-404698/
 
The equipment you make for your boss has a bottom dump. That's how breweries remove trub and later reclaim yeast for the next batch. For yeast to do its work, it must interact with the wort/beer. Just laying on the bottom or tied in a "bag" is not enough. Evolution has done it's work apparently. Otherwise we would be having 1/4" yeast balls laying around.

Speaking of which, I haven't heard much about those yeast beads lately either. They're probably still conditioning the beer after those 3 days of heavy binge fermentation. :D
 
I would suggest that you at least spend the 15 bucks (+/-) on a bucket and air lock and make at least a couple batches of extract beer.

Only after you have done this will you compleetly understand the complexity of what you are looking to acomplish. Each phase of the brewing process (mashing, lautering, boiling, cooling, pitching, fermenting, priming, botteling, ect., ect.), holds it's own challenges and variables, that it is mind blowing to think of doing it all in one vessel. :drunk:

You are looking to solve problems that you don't even know anything about yet.

Before you waste any more of your money, lunch hours, and time on someting that may not be even remotely interesting to you after you find out how diffult it can actually be to make good beer. If you then think this is something you wish to persue, then I wish you all the best and will be extremely interested in your efforts.

:tank: :mug:
 
The equipment you make for your boss has a bottom dump. That's how breweries remove trub and later reclaim yeast for the next batch. For yeast to do its work, it must interact with the wort/beer. Just laying on the bottom or tied in a "bag" is not enough. Evolution has done it's work apparently. Otherwise we would be having 1/4" yeast balls laying around.

Speaking of which, I haven't heard much about those yeast beads lately either. They're probably still conditioning the beer after those 3 days of heavy binge fermentation. :D

MalFet posted some results, and the beer certainly conditioned and was subsequently carbonated and taste tested. The result of using the beads was a beer with less of a yeast profile. This was only one test, on one wort, so more trials would be good. But regardless, it fermented the wort into a drinkable beer and, with respect to the OP's question and goal, it would work. Is it the best/only way to go? Maybe not. But I'm just brainstorming instead of telling the OP his idea isn't possible.

Here it is!

After a long, angsty wait, I finally busted out the clean and carbed beers and poured another triangle test. This time, I believe, there's a fair comparison to make: there was no acetaldehyde or any other sign of greenness in either. They are identical in appearance and both relatively clear (though with a bit of chill haze). In short, I'll keep tasting them over the next few weeks, but I suspect that what is true now will be just as true then.

The differences between the two are stark. But, to my surprise, one wasn't necessarily better than the other. I tend to prefer English beers and ultimately favored the regular ferment over the beads. My wife, on the other hand, goes more for West Coast IPAs and she chose the beads. Both were flavorful and drinkable, at least as far as would be expected by the very simple recipe.

The control batch was very English: grainy and a bit sweet with a distinct apple/pear follow-up.

The bead batch was clean and firmly bitter, but not at all flavorless. At risk of oversimplifying, it tasted like perfectly competent California Pale Ale (minus the late hop character).

I always knew intellectually that yeast played an important role in perceived bitterness, but I was really taken aback by how much of a difference shone through here. It's hard to be objective since I knew the recipe, but I would have guessed 15 IBUs versus 30 IBUs if I had to put a number to it.

----

In short: I'm very pleased. The immobilization process had a very large effect on the beer's flavor, but it wasn't a bad effect in any sense. Anyone hoping to simply reproduce their old favorite recipes this way will struggle, but I now believe that it might be possible to produce really good beer with alginate beads. I came into this very skeptical, and I'm much less skeptical now.

There is still a tremendous amount that's unknown. I don't know, for example, how this process will affect different yeast strains or different styles, nor do I know how things like temperature and pitching rate factor in. It's very hard to generalize much useful information from this single test, but the results here were good enough that I would now be willing to try this process out on a full batch.

I hope other people will too, and I hope they'll post their results. It might look complicated, but the process is actually very quick and very simple. The supplies are cheap, and there's really no special equipment necessary other than an eye dropper and a wire-mesh strainer.

So, have at it folks! :mug:
 
I know Jamil has mentioned one of his buddies has placed in competitions with beers he has brewed and fermented in his brew pot. In theory during active fermentation the beer is safe as long as the lid is on. Nothing is going to fall in, and the off gassing is keeping the oxygen at bay. It's going to come down to moving the beer to the conditioning vessel as soon as active fermentation is over. I think the positive here is that without transferring to a primary the risk of infection is decreased. I would think you would need to use a secondary to let the beer finish fermenting and give it time to drop clear or you would have a lot of sediment in your keg/bottles. If that's true then you would end up using the same number of vessels in the end.
 
I think I'll follow what most people are saying and ferment in carboys. I'm still going to try to ferment in the kettle/mash after I figure things out so don't go unsubscribing! The next question is, how far up from the bottom should I put the thermometer since I may want to do half size batches to test new recipes? And is a 4" long thermometer long enough?
 
What are you considering half size? 15 gallons? That's a hell of a test. Have you priced ingredients for a 15 gallon batch? The grains aren't too bad, but the hops can take a bite.
 
What are you considering half size? 15 gallons? That's a hell of a test. Have you priced ingredients for a 15 gallon batch? The grains aren't too bad, but the hops can take a bite.

Good point. It substantiates the strong impression that the OP hasn't brewed any beer yet, ever. Wonder where he's located.:D
 
Good point. It substantiates the strong impression that the OP hasn't brewed any beer yet, ever. Wonder where he's located.:D

Impression? The OP stated they haven't brewed before in the first post :confused:

The OP also didn't say s/he was doing a hop-forward beer as a tester. A blonde ale would be a great test beer and could use a very light hop schedule.
 
Don't worry about me learning how to brew. I work with a guy that's own awards for his beers so he's going to teach me
 
I decided to go 4" up from the bottom for the thermometer

image-3333500875.jpg
 
I have more questions for those willing to help.

1. Should I put a sight glass on it?

2. I got one of the head honchos at work to do the math to figure out how many btu's I need for a burner and it worked out to be 50,000 - 60,000 btu's. So my question is what does everyone think of the bayou classic sp10?

Thanks for any help
 
3. Will an immersion chiller work? I'm trying to save some money by not using a pump.

4. If I have to buy a pump should I make a tangential fitting to whirlpool?
 
Can anyone tell me why this won't work now? I drew a simple pic to help ppl understand.

image-3284977500.jpg

I build my tank like I was normally except make bolts going up on the clad rings and make a removable cone to add for fermenting in the same vessel.. All I have to do is rotate it after I bolt on the cone using the arms attached at the sides with bearings on them.. Hopefully I've explained this well enough
 
so you invert it to turn it into a conical? I'm intrigued. How will you vent CO2?
 
I have a question: Since fermentation produces heat how are you going to keep your wort cool in an insulated fermenter?
 
This is an interesting idea. How do you plan to seal the connection between the cone lid and the kettle? Rubber gasket?
 
retread2 said:
I have a question: Since fermentation produces heat how are you going to keep your wort cool in an insulated fermenter?
Not sure yet.. Maybe I'll keep it outside (hidden)
 
BlackGoat said:
This is an interesting idea. How do you plan to seal the connection between the cone lid and the kettle? Rubber gasket?

Ya a rubber gasket will work.. I've done it on 200bbl fermenters
 
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