CPF - Where did all my hops go?

[Smellyglove]

I would not bottle carb a NEIPA ever. The effect of O2 exposure combined with sitting at warmer temps so the yeast can work wreaks havoc on those beers. The issues are well documented here.

Some beers do fine bottle carbing. Some styles do not.

You problably read the entire thread with my points mirroring yours. I bet that most of the people who "argue" that bottle carbing a hoppy beer is fine, haven't tried a homebrewed low o2 pickup hoppy beer from a fresh keg where the beer has been held cold for the entire time after packaging. If they've had such beers, I guess they just haven't thought much about why it tastes like it does and just continued to bottle carb, and maybe adding more hops to get to the goal, which actually ruins the beer more since more hops = more stuff that can go bad.

I might have strong opinions, but I'm just sharing my harvested experiences with others. If they don't want to listen to me it's fine, it's not my beer.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

This is an awesome argument. Me being a NEIPA nut I concur with force carbing and drinking the beer young. As far as bottling for buddies or taking up a couple of growlers to the cottage I use a blichmann beer gun for this and it generally works well, and is similar to if you showed up to your favourite craft brewery with growler and had them fill from the teet. With that being said it's not meant to sit in someone's fridge for a week it's meant to be consumed right away. I know nothing about this CPF craziness and have had success naturally carbing beers in the past just not IPA's. By no means do I go as far as dosing each bottle with a syringe.

Anyway wish I had popcorn for this but I got a beer and just put ten gallons in the fermenter (NEIPA, will be force carbed).Love coming on here after a brewday to relax after cleaning up the brewery.

The "CPF craziness" is actually a pretty cool way to fill bottles from a keg. There's a sticky somewhere here and it's what I do. Connect a straight portion of racking cane to a plastic picnic tap. Slide a bottle opening sized stopper on the length of cane so that it seals the bottle as the cane just reaches the bottom of the bottle. Then connect it to a keg, run about 2 psi CO2.

To fill, open the valve on the picnic tap and the beer will flow until the pressure matches the pressure in the bottle. Then just pinch the stopper to let out some pressure to control the fill speed. It keeps the beer in the bottle under pressure as it's filled.

When I do it, I set the cap on top, hold it with my thumb and invert the bottle briefly. Turn it back upright, it foams enough to raise the cap. Then seal the cap.

I've had great results and took best of show at a local home brew competition with bottles of NEIPA filled that way. They were, of course, fresh (filled the night before from a week old keg).

 

[BeerAddikt]

I bet that most of the people who "argue" that bottle carbing a hoppy beer is fine, haven't tried a homebrewed low o2 pickup hoppy beer from a fresh keg where the beer has been held cold for the entire time after packaging.

I find this argument asinine. When people bottle they tend to sample their beer straight from the fermenter before it picks up any O2. I ALWAYS sample my beer when bottling and drink the hydro sample as well. This literally happens seconds after the fermenter is opened and introduced to oxygen. To assume that those that bottle carb don't know what a fresh hopped beer tastes like and don't detect the deterioration of hop flavors is short sighted and pompous.

I get it...you're a fan of kegging. But your argument is way off. Those that bottle carb do it out of necessity. No need to belittle us.

 

[kh54s10]

I haven't done a NEIPA, but I bottle and keg. I have not done a side by side taste test, but my bottled beers are every bit as good as a beer from the keg. I have bottled from the keg with a faucet adapter tube, not a CPF. I have given those away and have never tasted one, but my friends give very praise for those beers.

I thing it is individual process that is the problem not bottle conditioning versus kegging as a whole.

 

[Smellyglove]

I haven't done a NEIPA, but I bottle and keg. I have not done a side by side taste test, but my bottled beers are every bit as good as a beer from the keg. I have bottled from the keg with a faucet adapter tube, not a CPF. I have given those away and have never tasted one, but my friends give very praise for those beers.

I thing it is individual process that is the problem not bottle conditioning versus kegging as a whole.

the point is bottle carbing, bottling from a keg is almost as good as serving from the keg.

 

[Smellyglove]

I find this argument asinine. When people bottle they tend to sample their beer straight from the fermenter before it picks up any O2. I ALWAYS sample my beer when bottling and drink the hydro sample as well. This literally happens seconds after the fermenter is opened and introduced to oxygen. To assume that those that bottle carb don't know what a fresh hopped beer tastes like and don't detect the deterioration of hop flavors is short sighted and pompous.

I get it...you're a fan of kegging. But your argument is way off. Those that bottle carb do it out of necessity. No need to belittle us.

I think you didn't account for that I said "argue" that bottle carbing is on par with kegging. I do both, but for different kinds of beer.

My point was if you have an IPA, same recipe same everything, except for process, the bottle carbed version will never be as good as the kegged version.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok folks, you can disagree with and discuss different opinions, but you cannot demean another for their opinion.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[slym2none]

 

[65C]

It's poss the reason I no longer brew NEIPA, hoppy beers etc. - because I bottle.

The results are almost always underwhelming.

But my Porters absolutely smash it - so I brew darks / old ale type recipes with Maris Otter or really light fizzy Pils.

When I drink hop forward pints in great pubs like Smithfield Tavern I do often think I could never recreate this taste in a bottle.

 

[jwalk4]

It's poss the reason I no longer brew NEIPA, hoppy beers etc. - because I bottle.

The results are almost always underwhelming.

But my Porters absolutely smash it - so I brew darks / old ale type recipes with Maris Otter or really light fizzy Pils.

When I drink hop forward pints in great pubs like Smithfield Tavern I do often think I could never recreate this taste in a bottle.

Naturally carbonated beers are where pro-breweries and the home brewer are on the same level playing field. By bottling and carbonating via live active yeast, you are protecting your beerfrom oxidizing carbonyls, and capturing delicious hop volatiles that would otherwise be lost to the ever increasing head space of your kegs.

Im returning to bottles for exactly these reasons.

Bell's two-hearted ale, Amsterdam's bone shaker ipa, and others that will come to mind when i think hard enough, are naturally carbed. All have great hop flavor and aromas.

 

[Smellyglove]

But in bottles you have scalping. After a few days I can notice the CPF'ed IPA's are lacking in the freshness which I guess comes from the Myrcene oils, they are being absorbed by the lining in the crown. And when scalping occurs, the lining also slowly loses its effect to keep oxygen out. So you're losing voilatile hop aromas, and letting oxygen in over time.

I've gotten another CPF-filler which is easy to use and works great, and filled a lot of bottles since I started this post with the new one. But this is for all IPA's I'm tasting from a bottle, they don't have that delicate freshness which I feel is better preserved in a keg. In any store bought IPA I've tried that freshness has never been there.