Counterflow wort chiller sub pump

[GeorgiaMead]

I was looking at pumps, what is the verdict on a 160GPH aquarium pump? What type of pump should be used? I plan on having the wort gravity feed and using the pump to pump icy water so it doesn't need to be able to handle hot wort just cold waterthrough the chiller...

 

[fmr_army]

I use the Harbor Freight 1/6 horsepower submersible pump. Works like a champ - the only thing is that if you use snow from your back yard, you'll want to make sure that there aren't little leaves in there, because they'll clog the CFC lines. And it's a pain to backflush the system, and you'll probably say bad words.

 

[Yooper]

I was looking at pumps, what is the verdict on a 160GPH aquarium pump? What type of pump should be used? I plan on having the wort gravity feed and using the pump to pump icy water so it doesn't need to be able to handle hot wort just cold waterthrough the chiller...

You're going to use the pump to recirculate water? The first few minutes, the water will be boiling hot, so you'll want to have a place to dispose of that (maybe in a vessel to use for cleaning), and then you could probably recirculate with the ice water. I don't know how efficient that would be though- it took 42 pounds of ice for me to chill a 5 gallon batch so I only tried it once.

Unless you'll be using a garden hose first, and then just using ice water to get down the last few degrees? I'm trying to picture how this will work.

 

[GeorgiaMead]

I was gonna take a big 20+ gallon Rubbermaid tub fill it full of ice water/ gallon of frozen water blocks and jut circulate that... So that doesn't spud too good?

 

[Yooper]

I was gonna take a big 20+ gallon Rubbermaid tub fill it full of ice water/ gallon of frozen water blocks and jut circulate that... So that doesn't spud too good?

Well, the water will come out of the CFC boiling. I mean, actually boiling hot. The water takes the heat out of the wort, as that is the point of the CFC. Ice helps, but when you put boiling water back into the cooler, the whole thing will get warmer.

Like I said- I did it once, and it took 42 pounds of ice and a full cooler of water to cool 5 gallons. But I did it through the heat exchanger in the HLT. It's basically the same premise, though.

 

[GeorgiaMead]

Ok sorry to question your methods yoop you are wise beyond my years, so best method is to just to use garden hose water?

 

[Mojzis]

Ok sorry to question your methods yoop you are wise beyond my years, so best method is to just to use garden hose water?

You can try to circulate again after the initial chill. If using buckets (attach to spigot) just have a brewing pump recirculate until you hit desired temp.

Its a pain but can work to get you down a few extra degrees.

 

[poptarts]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000O8B7VO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Yooper]

Ok sorry to question your methods yoop you are wise beyond my years, so best method is to just to use garden hose water?

Are you calling me OLD?!?!?!

I can't tell you what's "best"- but I've used both an immersion chiller and a CFC. For an immersion chiller, your method would work better as you could chill first a bit with the hose, then switch to the ice/recirculation method. But for a CFC, the wort travels (again, it's boiling when you start!) through the chiller and needs to cool to 70 in one pass. The water coming out of the CFC will be as hot as the water was, as it sucks the heat out of the wort. I hope that makes sense.

Many people who have warm tap water (such as in the summer, or in the south) do use a set up like you're proposing with an immersion chiller as a pre-chiller since the wort can never get cooler than the tap water when using a hose.

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're proposing, so I could be all wet here. But if you're saying what I think you are, that you'll be trying to cool the wort with one pass through a CFC via gravity and recirculating cold water in the CFC, that it might not work very well at all and I've attempted to explain why.

 

[Yooper]

You can try to circulate again after the initial chill. If using buckets (attach to spigot) just have a brewing pump recirculate until you hit desired temp.

Its a pain but can work to get you down a few extra degrees.

Yes, but not if you're gravity feeding to the fermenter. That's what I"m trying to figure. You can recirculate cold water, but if the wort is going into the fermenter, it's got to be 70 degrees going into the fermenter.

Otherwise, the wort would have to be recirculated until 100 or so, and then the ice water trick would work great.

 

[Mojzis]

Yes, but not if you're gravity feeding to the fermenter. That's what I"m trying to figure. You can recirculate cold water, but if the wort is going into the fermenter, it's got to be 70 degrees going into the fermenter.

Otherwise, the wort would have to be recirculated until 100 or so, and then the ice water trick would work great.

What about one pass with tap, drain into first bucket with spout. Then attach submersible pump to the ice water and push through the chiller. Drain the first fermenter into a second bucket? Maybe?

 

[SeeMont]

My brewing garage lacks running water so hooking up a hose up to chill is not a choice. I use a 30 ft copper coil chiller and a HF pond pump to move the water. I have 2 gallons of ice, frozen in milk jugs. These are placed in a large tub of water. I have another gallon of ice in reserve if needed but so far it has not been used. I can chill my five gallons in 30 minutes with no problem. I use the first five gallons for clean up, the rest recirculates.

 

[Yooper]

What about one pass with tap, drain into first bucket with spout. Then attach submersible pump to the ice water and push through the chiller. Drain the first fermenter into a second bucket? Maybe?

Yes, that might work. I'd say that the first pass would have to be with a garden hose, instead of the ice bath, though as the water/ice mixture would melt and get warm within a couple of minutes.

I think it would be much easier to go with an immersion chiller (and a prechiller if necessary) than a CFC in this case, though!

 

[Yooper]

My brewing garage lacks running water so hooking up a hose up to chill is not a choice. I use a 30 ft copper coil chiller and a HF pond pump to move the water. I have 2 gallons of ice, frozen in milk jugs. These are placed in a large tub of water. I have another gallon of ice in reserve if needed but so far it has not been used. I can chill my five gallons in 30 minutes with no problem. I use the first five gallons for clean up, the rest recirculates.

Do you gravity drain the wort though the CFC?

I think it would work well with an immersion chiller, but I can't see how it could possibly work with a CFC without recirculating the wort, unless I'm missing something huge. Thanks!

 

[GeorgiaMead]

Ok, so with a CFC make one run into a fermenter and then do a secondary run using the ice water tube method? I've never done a 5 gallon batch and I was thinkin a CFC would be more efficient than a normal wort chiller plus CFC take up less room and can't be damaged as easy as a normal chiller appears to be... So maybe I'll just set my primary glass fermenter in an ice bath an salt and ice the water around the glass and once it gets nice and frost I can start the CFC draining into a frosty primary... How does that sound?


And no yoop not callin you old, speaking more in years of brewing I've only done a couple one gallon batches and been doing wine/cider/meads for a little over a year...

 

[govner1]

You're going to use the pump to recirculate water? The first few minutes, the water will be boiling hot, so you'll want to have a place to dispose of that (maybe in a vessel to use for cleaning), and then you could probably recirculate with the ice water. I don't know how efficient that would be though- it took 42 pounds of ice for me to chill a 5 gallon batch so I only tried it once. Unless you'll be using a garden hose first, and then just using ice water to get down the last few degrees? I'm trying to picture how this will work.

I use the process you describe above, including keeping the first run off of hot water for later clean up w/ SaniCleanse. But I find that even in peak heat if Summer in the South I can get a batch from boil to 64-68 w/ 10-15 lbs of ice.

 

[Yooper]

I use the process you describe above, including keeping the first run off of hot water for later clean up w/ SaniCleanse. But I find that even in peak heat if Summer in the South I can get a batch from boil to 64-68 w/ 10-15 lbs of ice.

That's interesting to hear. You do the same thing- gravity drain the wort through the CFC, and then recirculate the water?

I've honestly never heard of success with a CFC like that, and I can't grasp the physics behind it working so I must be prejudiced against it or something.

I see how an immersion chiller would work in that instance, but not a CFC on a single pass.

 

[govner1]

That's interesting to hear. You do the same thing- gravity drain the wort through the CFC, and then recirculate the water? I've honestly never heard of success with a CFC like that, and I can't grasp the physics behind it working so I must be prejudiced against it or something. I see how an immersion chiller would work in that instance, but not a CFC on a single pass.

I started out using gravity feed & recirculating w/ a pump. I've since added a March pump & can whirlpool in my BK & recirculate through my CFC, too.
I did a batch last week where it had been cold enough just to use ground water so I also gravity fed my CFC. Got down to 58 in one pass.

 

[Sjorge3442]

Hmm. Call me crazy but with the CFC i just built and used for the first time, if I had the hose running full blast and the kettle valve opened about half way, my wort was dropping to 56 degrees in one gravity fed pass. Now, if I control the kettles valve I can adjust the temperature obviously. I ended up cutting the hose back to 30% and the kettle to about 50% and that made for a perfect 69 degrees coming out of the CFC. Granted it was about 55 degrees on brew day, I believe with controlling the valves, I will be able to drop the wort to 70 degrees even in the hottest days ,again, by adjusting the valves.

I used this thing once and I had a much better experience than from an IC. I know people who throw frozen 2L bottles into the wort to help speed the chilling process. I'd rather just turn the valves on and just let science do the work.

 

[Mojzis]

Hmm. Call me crazy but with the CFC i just built and used for the first time, if I had the hose running full blast and the kettle valve opened about half way, my wort was dropping to 56 degrees in one gravity fed pass. Now, if I control the kettles valve I can adjust the temperature obviously. I ended up cutting the hose back to 30% and the kettle to about 50% and that made for a perfect 69 degrees coming out of the CFC. Granted it was about 55 degrees on brew day, I believe with controlling the valves, I will be able to drop the wort to 70 degrees even in the hottest days ,again, by adjusting the valves.

I used this thing once and I had a much better experience than from an IC. I know people who throw frozen 2L bottles into the wort to help speed the chilling process. I'd rather just turn the valves on and just let science do the work.

You are in a much cooler area than OP. In the summer I am sure the ground water there is much more hot than yours or mine. Same goes for winter most likely.

It's just not possible to get cooler than your groundwater without another source of chilled water.

 

[GeorgiaMead]

If I don't have a keg should I use a 5 gal fermenter to coil the chiller around? If not what else should I use?

 

[GeorgiaMead]

a little cloudy but it is built, just a small leak at the beginning of the coil where te water comes in figure I'll get some silicone and seal that area up...