Corny's vs sanke's battle, who will win?

[mikescooling]

I switched from corney to sanke kegs and I thought I start a pro's and cons thread. Using sanke is not talked about much here, and I wanted brewers to know they have a choice
cons: I didn't add the gelatin before I put the spear and clip in, then hit it with CO2, so I don't think I can get the sanke kegs open again, like I could with cornys. The sanke 6th are just a little wider than cornys, so they didn't fit in my old keezer. The couplers cost more bucks and have 2 lines attached to them, that's kind of a PIA. When you untap sanke couplers you lose a couple ounces
pro's: New 6ths sanke kegs are cheaper than new cornys. The couplers are built like tanks, so you don't have leaks (or I have not had one yet). If you use sanke kegs as fermenters you can rack using the spear with CO2, and that is just too cool. Sanke's come in many sizes and shapes. Sanke kegs are thicker SS and are built like tanks. Sanke's have less O-rings, and don't have to be rebuilt as much.
Do you have any other thoughts on why one is better than the other?

 

[campbellmike]

Cleaning?

 

[D-Train]

You can reopen sankes after they've been pressurized. Just purge all pressure using the pressure relief on the d coupler (co2 needs to be off) and then open.

 

[D-Train]

Pro: sankes don't require co2 to seat the seal, making them easier to carbonate with priming sugar. This is something I want to do. I only have room for 2 kegs and want to get a third sanke in the pipeline so that I can swap an already carbonated keg when one runs out.

 

[chawn]

Sankes are great if you have the equipment to clean them.

 

[D-Train]

Carboy brush and PBW works for me.

 

[ajdelange]

The biggest advantage of the Sanke's is that there is one connector and that it and the parts for it are available at any bar supply store in any town that has one as well as places like Micromatic. There are, in fact, two types of Sanke couplers (European and US) not to mention a whole host of other types of couplers but if you buy US Sanke kegs you will never have to worry about such things again quite in contrast to the ball-gas TypeA vs ball_liquid TypeB vs pin.... If you have Sanke kegs you can take your beer anywhere that a normal keg of beer can go and this makes life simpler.

The main disadvantage of Sanke is, of course, that you need to emulate a commercial operations CIP (clean in place) practices. This is not that hard to do but will cost you a few bucks. I got the biggest single phase centrifugal pump I could buy (2HP from Grainger) with 3A sanitary fittings on it and built a stand on which I can place a keg upside down. I put 5 gal of hot water in an old 15 gal unitank, add caustic and pump the solution up the spear with that pump. The coupler's gas port is connected back to the unitank so that the caustic solution recirculates and the rate of recirculation I adjust by injecting compressed air (oil filter in the air line) into the keg with the caustic. I find this gets the kegs plenty clean. You don't want to be removing the spear every time you need to clean a keg. It goes without saying that if you are going to mess with hot caustic under pressure you need proper safety equipment (full face shield and gloves, lab coat etc - see MSDS).

Another big advantage of Sanke's for me (which I don't imagine would be that useful to most) is that as I brew with steam I can sterilize the kegs with steam quite easily. I can't figure out any way to do that with a Corny. Steam sterilization is great not only because it is effective but because you don't have to rinse out any sanitizer and you don't have to purge the keg of air - the steam does that. Just connect CO2 to the keg when it comes off the steam line and as the steam condenses it is replaced by CO2. Blow out the water (through the coupler's gas port) and you have a sterilized keg filled with CO2 ready for counter pressure filling.

Filling with a Sanke is very easy because you just run the cold beer in through the spear while venting the CO2 through a needle valve connected to the gas port. If you have a newish keg you can usually monitor the filling level by watching condensation on the side of the keg (you can do this with a Corny too if it isn't too bunged up) and can tell when it is full accurately simply by putting your hand on the top. When you feel cold on the top the keg is full.

Sanke's fit into normal kegerators, beer coolers etc.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

Cornys hands down in my opinion. Yes you can clean a sanke with a brush and PBW - a corny is still much easier. Pressurization is really a non issue, as I always use CO2 to purge the air after filling.

This is more personal preference.

 

[ajdelange]

...I always use CO2 to purge the air after filling.

You use CO2 to purge some of the air. You can't get it all. You can do the math pretty easily to see how much air is left after each purge cycle for a give pressure of applied CO2.

If you want to really purge the air from a keg (Corny or Sanke) you must completely fill it with some other fluid (Steam or Water) and then push that out with CO2. Doing this allows me to keep beer for two years without any oxidation problems. Obviously, if you don't intend or need to keep your beer that long you don't need a complete air purge but if you intend to keep it as much as a couple of months you do.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

I( am hard pressed to even give the kegs time to carbonate. Hold onto for a year - not much chance. Besides the CO2 is heavier than air so what you end up with really is inconsequential in the scheme of things.

 

[bondra76]

So glad I went the sanke route for a multitude of reasons.

After getting my kegs and the couplers I haven't had a single additional expense. For some reason folks think if you're a homebrewer you HAVE to go corny and it's just not true. The marketing arm of homebrew retail wants you to go corny so incredibly bad.

 

[ajdelange]

Unless you have some way of getting the CO2 into the keg without causing any currents it will mix rapidly with the air. Once it is mixed it will not separate. That would violate the second law. Even if you could somehow layer the CO2 over the beer diffusion would have the two gasses mixed pretty quickly. If it stayed separate you'd have another second law violation.

Anyway, as I said, the keg should be filled with CO2 before the beer is put into it. That way if your beer has taken on any air in the fermenter it will tend to move to the counter pressure fill gas in the keg i.e. out of the beer. Conversely, if you fill against air then air will move into the beer. It only takes a tiny amount of oxygen to stale a beer. That's why commercial breweries go to such great lengths to keep package airs way down. Home brewers have to live with the same physics and chemistry as commercial brewers.

 

[doug293cz]

I( am hard pressed to even give the kegs time to carbonate. Hold onto for a year - not much chance. Besides the CO2 is heavier than air so what you end up with really is inconsequential in the scheme of things.

This is incorrect. Gases homogenize over time no mater what the density differences, they do not spontaneously stratify. The CO2 blanket that people talk about in recently opened fermenters is a very temporary thing, unless fermentation is occurring very rapidly (fast enough to overcome the diffusion of air into the CO2 layer.)

Brew on

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

What is with the splitting hairs........ This was a post on cornies vs. sanke, I was making a point on the two not the science of gas diffusion. At least you qualified it with an "over time" comment. In the amount of time a corny is open before being sealed the CO2 will displace oxygen. So I will have to beg to differ on this one - no time for stratifying for all practical purposes. Does all O2 get displaced no, but it is better than doing nothing.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I am in the works to sell off my giant collection of corny kegs and start amassing a giant collection of sanke 1/6 and slim 1/4s. I don't feel like putting a 1/2bbl keg into my keezer...

 

[Silentdrinker]

Man, I've used both... Sanke kegs are by far the biggest pita over Cornelius kegs. I've dealt with literally hundreds of corny kegs. I've refurbished hundreds of them. 99% of the time, it's not something an Oring and keg lube can't fix.

Sanke kegs are more of a pain to use and fill and clean. But it's true they're less of an over all to maintain. But fixing a few orings every few years beats dicking with a sanke every time I finish a beer. I had 6 of the 1/6 I sold off. And I'm selling 4 more.

 

[November]

I am in the works to sell off my giant collection of corny kegs and start amassing a giant collection of sanke 1/6 and slim 1/4s. I don't feel like putting a 1/2bbl keg into my keezer...

Same here. Down to the last 6 cornys. I may keep a handful for other projects but for kegged beer, I am done them.

After a few times, it really is pretty easy to tear apart a sanke. I use an old screw driver that I ground down to fit in the notch to pry the ring out and a pair of pliers.

Silentdrinker, any chance you are in AZ? I would be interested in four snakes.

 

[Silentdrinker]

Same here. Down to the last 6 cornys. I may keep a handful for other projects but for kegged beer, I am done them.

After a few times, it really is pretty easy to tear apart a sanke. I use an old screw driver that I ground down to fit in the notch to pry the ring out and a pair of pliers.

Silentdrinker, any chance you are in AZ? I would be interested in four snakes.

Nope, I'm not... And you can get easy removable rings

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/re-use-sanke-kegs-267931/

But you still have to deal with cleaning the post and ball with out taking it apart and what not... Good luck with it.

 

[acidrain]

I use Sankes for fermenting, and if I didn't already have a large collection of corny's, would definitely go with Sankes for serving too... still might.

Just like the fermenters, I would go with a TC cap adapted for serving instead of the Sanke connector.

As for cleaning, I already had a pressure washer, so adding a 90 deg tip to clean kegs (both Sankey and Corny) was just too easy.

I vote Sankey's.

 

[JuanMoore]

Nope, I'm not... And you can get easy removable rings

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/re-use-sanke-kegs-267931/

But you still have to deal with cleaning the post and ball with out taking it apart and what not... Good luck with it.

Those rings suck for sankeys IMO, they just don't provide the positive seal that the spiral ones do. I tried them for a while, but went back to spiral rings. And once you get the hang of it, the spiral ones are just as quick and easy to remove.

IME cleaning sankeys is just as easy as cornies. You can't fit your hand inside like a corny, bu there are fewer parts to take out to clean individually and keep track of each time. I assume the post and ball you're referring to is the spear? Doesn't even need to be removed to be cleaned, commercial breweries sure don't. It comes apart for easy cleaning if you know how and want to. I only disassemble the spear for a deep cleaning after every 3-4 kegs personally, but that's just me, and it's not necessary.

 

[ajdelange]

But you still have to deal with cleaning the post and ball with out taking it apart and what not...

No, actually you don't. Proper CIP technique gets the 'ball' (which is actually a tab) and the other internal parts plenty clean without any dis-assembly. It is not necessary to remove the spear. I've been using Sanke's for about 10 years now without ever looking back (except when a friend wants me to fill a Corny) and have never removed a spear (nor dis-assembled one) except out of curiosity.