Corking Belgian Champane bottles

[1971hemicuda]

This is the 3rd time I've tried corking and the results are the same each time...terrible!

It's been 3 weeks. I bottled my Belgian Tripel with some softer Champane corks, instead of the Belgians (because of previous poor results) and to no avail. I capped 2 bottles of the same beer from the same bucket and it's perfectly carbonated (around 2.6 volumes)

My problem...

The corks are extremely difficult to remove. Have I done something wrong?? The first one I attempted to open, the cork broke and I needed a wine opener....any ideas?

 

[JetSmooth]

I don't think three weeks is NEARLY enough time for a high-alcohol beer like a triple to carbonate to a level where the pressure "assists" in pushing the corks out.

My golden strong corks are still a bit difficult after four months, but I can get a grip on them with a dish towel and pull them out. The first two months, I did need a corkscrew.

Also, did you prime high enough to carb to style? That's important in getting enough pressure to push the corks out.

I'd say your problem is not the corks, it's your carbonation. How's the head on the beer? It is at least three fingers when poured? My golden strong could stand to be higher.

 

[Golddiggie]

IME using Belgian bottles (and beer corks) is that they can be a bit difficult to remove. BUT wit how they keep carbonation IN it's worth the trade. I wouldn't use softer corks since they might not keep the carbonation in as well. I usually grab hold of the top of the cork and try the old "twist 'n pull" to get them out. If that doesn't do it, then push/rock them back and forth to get them out. They should POP nicely with the final pull.

How much of the cork are you leaving outside of the bottle? you might want to try leavin a little more above the lip to help remove it. I did on some of the ones in my first batch and they came out much easier. Just be sure to cage those mothers UP. Otherwise you could be getting hit with a salvo of corks.

 

[smokinghole]

I've done a bunch of batches with corks. In my opinion you need to make sure you are corking a beer that can help get the cork out. I hate when breweries bottle up a barleywine or RIS with 2 volumes of C02 and throw Belgian corks in the bottles. I tend to just grab a cork screw for those. My saisons, and my tripel start pushing the cork out on their own once you pull the cage off. The last little bit you need to just lightly tug and then my brew is open. My tripel and my saison are both at 3.0 volumes of C02 and higher. The saison actually is partially primed with maltodextrine and dosed with brett, which makes it closer to 4 volumes.

My question to you is what are you doing after they're corked? If you don't, next time lay them horizontal after about three days. Your corks will push out to the cage and you'll have carbonated beer. I promise. I leave mine upright for 2-3 days then lay them down. Otherwise I think the C02 escapes past the cork material because its dry. I also store all my corked beer horizontally. They only go vertical when they hit a fridge.

 

[JetSmooth]

I also store all my corked beer horizontally. They only go vertical when they hit a fridge.

Don't you get the "yeast slick" along the side of the bottles? Even when I put a bottle in the fridge for several days, there's a lot of yeast clinging to the side of the bottle. I like a nice-compact sediment on the bottom.

 

[smokinghole]

If you want your bottles to carbonate properly you gots to do it. Commercial corking machines work differently. I think they premushroom the cork ensuring a better seal. We need to rely on the bottle pressure to do that for us.

The yeast sediment really depends on the strain. Wyeast 3711 kind of plated itself to some bottles all up the sides but was in a way glued to the bottle. My tripel, the yeast all falls to the bottom and I don't have a problem pouring. Besides a what's a little yeast mixed in the glass....

 

[1971hemicuda]

Ok...so I'm going to go home and put them all on their sides. How should I judge them on "readiness" hahah

Just keep opening them?

 

[Golddiggie]

I don't see that as necessary. I opened up a couple of brews in Belgian bottles on Sunday, and the corks came out fairly easily (minimum effort) and the carbonation was good. These were NOT Belgian style brews, but British style. Carbonation was about 2.3 volumes in both. One had been in the fridge for at least a few weeks, the other just a few days. One was bottled mid April, the other mid May. I've been leaving mine standing, based on recommendations by others in another thread about using Belgian bottles.

Maybe leave yours in the fridge for a bit longer to get things ready. Condensation on the bottles could have helped move the corks in mine too. It was a bit warm yesterday, so there was a decent amount of condensation by the time I pulled the cork out. It could be different during cooler days.

I'm starting to keg parts of my batches now (at least half of each) so I'm using far less bottles. For most of mine, I'll probably use the 500ml swing top style (Grolsch). I do expect to still use Belgian bottles for some batches, either for all that gets bottled, or part of what gets bottled. I'm not sure, yet, what I'll be doing for my big brews. Probably something corked, since I'll want long term storage stability.

 

[step]

Are the corks lubricated in any way? wax or silicone??? This can be an issue. I guess you just need to make sure that you attach a wine corker to your keychain next to the bottle opener

 

[Golddiggie]

Are the corks lubricated in any way? wax or silicone??? This can be an issue. I guess you just need to make sure that you attach a wine corker to your keychain next to the bottle opener

No, they are supposed to stay in mostly on their own. The cages are to prevent the CO2 volumes from pushing them out before you're ready. Just like how champagne corks are NOT lubricated.

I soak mine in StarSan to make sure there's nothing hitching a ride on them. Then I use the floor corker to get them into the bottles, to the right depth. If I was to get the corker again, I'd go with a blue champagne corker, since that has more capabilities. I went for a "scratch 'n dent" model to get away a bit cheaper.

IMO, you only need either hands attached to a MAN, Leatherman, or a nut cracker to get the cork out. Tools ONLY if they won't come out with reasonable effort. As I mentioned, the last two corks came out easily. I did have a few, earlier, that were more difficult. BUT, not so much that I had to go and get a wine cork puller...

 

[1971hemicuda]

I've noticed that there seems to be a difference when corking vs bottling, when it comes to carbonation levels

case and point

http://www.boulevard.com/BoulevardBeers/saison-brett

A Saison with 3.4 volumes of carbonation? Tripels as well, seem to be very heavily carbonated when they are corked. But when you look up "Style" it says 2.4 to 3.0 volumes. I've done 3 volumes in a bottle and its pretty heavily carbonated. Is there a reason for more carbonation in the corked bottles...besides helping to push the cork out?

This might also be my problem. I'm carb'ing my tripel around 2.6 or 2.7 volumes. It might not be enough to help push that cork out

 

[smokinghole]

If you look at BJCP stuff they don't list a beer as being carbonated past 3.1 volumes which are the Guezes and Lambics. They list tripels up to 3.0 volumes. I think I bottled mine at 3.5 and even dosed a couple of the heavier bottles with brett. My saison in corked bottles is closer to 4 volumes.

Don't be scared to go higher in C02 with the belgian styles of beer. Especially when you're corking and using heavy champagne bottles it's completely safe and fun to play with different carbonation levels.

 

[nakeddog]

Just to dispel a myth in here, Champagne bottles or Belgians do not benefit from being laid down horizontally. The pressurization inside the bottle keeps the cork moist, so laying them down is not needed. It is only recommended for wine bottles as there is no pressure to do this. All my Champagne bottles are stored vertically and after months of storage I get a yeast cake on the bottom that is so compact, that unless the bottle is transported a good distance, stays put during the opening and pouring of the beer.

 

[smokinghole]

I did find someplace backing up your arguement "Sparkling wines and champagnes can be stored standing up. The carbon dioxide naturally produced in the wine will form a layer in the neck and protect the wine from contact with the air. Carbon dioxide is heavier than air and will sit on top of the wine. The air (if there is any in there) will sit above the carbon dioxide."

Not that we're keeping corked homebrew for 20 years but I have a feeling eventually that C02 will disperse, albeit slowly, through the cork and allowing oxidation. The greatest argument I saw for not laying a corked sparking wine down is cork taint. I like the slight cork flavor I get in my beers that I cork and store horizontally. The argument seems to be out on the vertical or horizontal storage of sparking wines. In my quick bit of research I found accounts claiming cork taint on vertically stored bottles. So if that still happens after long enough time you can essentially store however you want I suppose.

The other point is that beer is different and at a MUCH lower pressure than sparkling wine. I don't think it's a difference that matters much though. I do know that champagne corks are considerably larger than belgian corks. That might have something to do with sparkling wine.

I will just stick to how the long time lambic producers store bottles.

Also how in the heck would C02 pressure keep a cork moist?