Coors banquet

[tderanleau]

I’m trying to make a coors banquet recipe. I understand what hops they use, I know they use 2 row, but what percentage of corn are they using? I’ve read that coors uses caramel malt I assume either c30 or c40 because they said it leads to a slight toffee flavor… I know they have their own blend of grain do they use just a blend of standard 2 row… a blend of pale and Pilsner malt? I plan on using white labs German lager x yeast as I’ve found it is the same yeast strain coors uses… any feedback will help thanks. And tagging the man himself who can help the most, @Wayne1 … if there’s any other coors people than can help that would be greatly appreciated thanks!!

 

[tderanleau]

And also what percentage of caramel malt would they be using?

 

[Miraculix]

These huge companies have usually the maltsters create specific malts which closely match their requirements. Which means, we can only try to taste match the beer but the exact malts they really use are unavailable to us. However, we can come usually reasonably close with a good idea about the final product and how each malt affects the result.

 

[tderanleau]

These huge companies have usually the maltsters create specific malts which closely match their requirements. Which means, we can only try to taste match the beer but the exact malts they really use are unavailable to us. However, we can come usually reasonable close with a good idea about the final product and how each malt affects the result.

Thanks for the reply.. and yeah I understand that but I’m just trying to get as close as possible using either pale,Pilsner or a combination to get as close as I can.. as well as the caramel 30 or 40 which I know they use as they’ve posted it on their website

 

[Broothru]

The WLP-835X is spot on Andechs yeast. The grain is Moravian 2-row, maybe Harrington? They contract selected barley growers in the Rockies, and it’s a guarded proprietary secret. 30-40L caramel sounds about right, but I’d use a light hand. Why not use some Munich II? What it lacks in authenticity may reward you with subtle flavors you might like.

I’ve brewed Coors Banquet and Light over the years several times for nostalgia’s sake. It was my “gateway” beer during college five decades ago!

 

[Wayne1]

Coors malts their own grain, which is grown for them by local farmers with seed supplied by Coors.

To the best of my knowledge, Banquet, which is only brewed in Golden, is their 2 row and rice. No caramel. Back when I worked for them, Dr. Keith Villa told me they did use whole rice and a separate cereal cooker. Currently, I believe they pulled out most of the cereal cookers and are using rice syrup. I see on their web site they state corn syrup.

The Coors yeast is sometimes available as Wyeast 2105-PC Rocky Mountain Lager.

I have been making a Banquet tribute for many years in many brewpubs. I try to use a malt from Root Shoot Malting or Colorado Malting Company, as they both are farmers that used to grow for Coors. I only use flaked rice for the adjunct, but go ahead and try flaked corn. 20% adjunct is what I try for.

Good luck!

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I’ve brewed Coors Banquet and Light over the years several times for nostalgia’s sake. It was my “gateway” beer during college five decades ago!

Coors was a true cult beer in the 70's. We used to buy it in Texas, and smuggle it back to Iowa. Back then, the best way to make lifelong friends to bring them a 6 pack of Coors Original.

 

[Broothru]

Coors was a true cult beer in the 70's. We used to buy it in Texas, and smuggle it back to Iowa. Back then, the best way to make lifelong friends to bring them a 6 pack of Coors Original.

I grew up in Kansas City, MO, about six or 7 miles from the Kansas state line. Kansas was an “18” state, and in those days Coors didn’t ship further East than the KS/MO border. Missouri was a “21” state.

By chance of birth, I turned 18 earlier than most of the guys in my senior class. Guess who was ‘mule’. Coors was also considered more exotic than Schlitz or Bud, so the go-to was ‘Rocky Mt. Rainwater.’ Memories.

 

[Broothru]

Coors malts their own grain, which is grown for them by local farmers with seed supplied by Coors.

To the best of my knowledge, Banquet, which is only brewed in Golden, is their 2 row and rice. No caramel. Back when I worked for them, Dr. Keith Villa told me they did use whole rice and a separate cereal cooker. Currently, I believe they pulled out most of the cereal cookers and are using rice syrup. I see on their web site they state corn syrup.

The Coors yeast is sometimes available as Wyeast 2105-PC Rocky Mountain Lager.

I have been making a Banquet tribute for many years in many brewpubs. I try to use a malt from Root Shoot Malting or Colorado Malting Company, as they both are farmers that used to grow for Coors. I only use flaked rice for the adjunct, but go ahead and try flaked corn. 20% adjunct is what I try for.

Good luck!

Yes, excellent data. Wyeast hasn’t released 2105-PC for at least the last two, maybe 3 years. Not sure why they haven’t, but I still have a few 50ml frozen samples from a 1st generation propagation in deep freeze. Every ‘reliable’ source I’ve come across lists it as straight-up Andechs strain, so WLP-835X would be correct. Imperial is also selling a limited release Andechs called L-26. BSG sells Andechs, but only in brewery pitch volumes.

There may be others, but I’m away from my computer with the data base for the next week and can’t confirm. Someone should make it as a year-round offering. I’ve grown quite fond of the strain for most lagers that call for a German yeast. It’s a solid performer, just like 34/70 in liquid form.

Which of the Root Shoot and/or Colorado Malting grains to you prefer?

 

[Red over White]

For years I've heard that they use Moravian III 2 row and basically used up everything and almost none was available for the general public. Is that true or still true I'm not sure. I believe I remember George Fix saying that and hearing it on a mbaa podcast with Joe H.

 

[Broothru]

For years I've heard that they use Moravian III 2 row and basically used up everything and almost none was available for the general public. Is that true or still true I'm not sure. I believe I remember George Fix saying that and hearing it on a mbaa podcast with Joe H.

That may be where I heard it. Never been able to source that grain, but have had success with Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian pils. I think @Wayne1 has the right idea of going with a domestic malt grown in the U.S. Mountain West. Adolphus Coors, just like George Miller, Auggie Busch and Joe Schlitz all used domestic ingredients in addition to those they could import after they emigrated and set up breweries in the U.S. The main exception was Coors who planted 2-row instead of using indigenous 6-row.

 

[Wayne1]

I have used Root Shoot Pilsner for the last few years. Root Shoot is presently using Genie barley for the Pilsner, I believe. They were using Odyssey for awhile.

Coors is constantly changing their base barley to obtain better yields for the farmer and greater flavor for their brewers. The latest variety I am aware of is Moravian 170.

"Moravian 170 is an early maturing, two-row, spring malting barley. It was bred and developed for irrigated production in Colorado. It is a short statured barley with good lodging resistance and yields equal to or greater than Moravian 069. Moravian 170 produces high yields and quality grain in heat-stressed conditions and can be produced with 2 to 3 fewer inches of irrigation water than Moravian 069. Moravian 170 is a proprietary barley variety of Molson Coors Beverage Co."

 

[tderanleau]

Coors malts their own grain, which is grown for them by local farmers with seed supplied by Coors.

To the best of my knowledge, Banquet, which is only brewed in Golden, is their 2 row and rice. No caramel. Back when I worked for them, Dr. Keith Villa told me they did use whole rice and a separate cereal cooker. Currently, I believe they pulled out most of the cereal cookers and are using rice syrup. I see on their web site they state corn syrup.

The Coors yeast is sometimes available as Wyeast 2105-PC Rocky Mountain Lager.

I have been making a Banquet tribute for many years in many brewpubs. I try to use a malt from Root Shoot Malting or Colorado Malting Company, as they both are farmers that used to grow for Coors. I only use flaked rice for the adjunct, but go ahead and try flaked corn. 20% adjunct is what I try for.

Good luck!

Their website says in the ingredients they use corn syrup, Howcome you think theyre actually using rice? And as of now my recipe is 70% 2 row, 3% C30, and 27% flaked corn. And almost 15 ibu with a variety of hops all in at the start of the 60 min boil

 

[tderanleau]

I have used Root Shoot Pilsner for the last few years. Root Shoot is presently using Genie barley for the Pilsner, I believe. They were using Odyssey for awhile.

Coors is constantly changing their base barley to obtain better yields for the farmer and greater flavor for their brewers. The latest variety I am aware of is Moravian 170.

"Moravian 170 is an early maturing, two-row, spring malting barley. It was bred and developed for irrigated production in Colorado. It is a short statured barley with good lodging resistance and yields equal to or greater than Moravian 069. Moravian 170 produces high yields and quality grain in heat-stressed conditions and can be produced with 2 to 3 fewer inches of irrigation water than Moravian 069. Moravian 170 is a proprietary barley variety of Molson Coors Beverage Co."

When you worked for coors what percent adjunct was it?

 

[tderanleau]

The WLP-835X is spot on Andechs yeast. The grain is Moravian 2-row, maybe Harrington? They contract selected barley growers in the Rockies, and it’s a guarded proprietary secret. 30-40L caramel sounds about right, but I’d use a light hand. Why not use some Munich II? What it lacks in authenticity may reward you with subtle flavors you might like.

I’ve brewed Coors Banquet and Light over the years several times for nostalgia’s sake. It was my “gateway” beer during college five decades ago!

What was your recipe?

 

[Broothru]

What was your recipe?

On the road right now. Will be home on Monday and will shoot you the recipe(s) I’ve used.

BTW, I remembered another yeast propagator named (coincidentally) Propagation Labs, I believe in Colorado, probably Denver. They also offered an Andechs yeast strain that I used once about five years ago. Unclear if they’re still in business however. The yeast was O.K., but there were some rumors a few years ago that they’d had some quality control issues, but I can’t speak to that with any authority. I had no problems with their products, however.

 

[Pennine]

On the road right now. Will be home on Monday and will shoot you the recipe(s) I’ve used.

BTW, I remembered another yeast propagator named (coincidentally) Propagation Labs, I believe in Colorado, probably Denver. They also offered an Andechs yeast strain that I used once about five years ago. Unclear if they’re still in business however. The yeast was O.K., but there were some rumors a few years ago that they’d had some quality control issues, but I can’t speak to that with any authority. I had no problems with their products, however.

They do still make it saw it at the Golden HBS the other day. Was tempted to pick it up.

 

[tderanleau]

Has anybody else made a coors banquet clone that came out close and they’d like to share their recipes? Trying to get more inspiration on this before I pull the trigger. Mine goes as follows…

5 Gallon Batch

SG 1.048
FG 1.010
ABV 5%
IBU 14.6
SRM 3.7

3 lb 10 oz Weyermann pilsner 39.6%
2 lb 15 oz Rahr 2 row pale malt 32.1%
2 lb 5 oz flaked corn 25.2%
4.5 oz briess caramel 30 3.1%

.12 oz of each of Hallertau mittelfrueh, chinook, herkules… added in at start of boil (60 min)

White labs German x lager yeast

Mash at 148°

I would also add Taurus hops as they use those in the real recipe but they’re impossible to find and I doubt anybody would even notice a difference whether they were in the batch or not

 

[Broothru]

Looks like a solid recipe for a very nice beer, even if not an exact clone. My only question might be Chinook. Maybe Magnum (US or German) or Nugget, even Cluster for a 19th century American hop if you’re looking for a clone. But what you’re planning looks pretty good as is.

 

[tderanleau]

Looks like a solid recipe for a very nice beer, even if not an exact clone. My only question might be Chinook. Maybe Magnum (US or German) or Nugget, even Cluster for a 19th century American hop if you’re looking for a clone. But what you’re planning looks pretty good as is.

Coors banquet uses chinook, Hallertau, herkules, and Taurus in the real recipe

 

[ba-brewer]

possible source for yeast
Andechs lager yeast/ LagerX / MIP620 - now coming from Bootleg biology Beta release Spring 2023

I have not tried the yeast in the link as wlp835 seems to be released quite often

 

[Broothru]

Coors banquet uses chinook, Hallertau, herkules, and Taurus in the real recipe

That must be an update from when I formulated mine. As I recall is was Hallertau (maybe the original recipe thru the 1950s) and either Magnum or Cluster for bittering. I don’t recall Chinook in any of the ‘old time’ recipes, but agree it would be good in that mix.

 

[tderanleau]

That must be an update from when I formulated mine. As I recall is was Hallertau (maybe the original recipe thru the 1950s) and either Magnum or Cluster for bittering. I don’t recall Chinook in any of the ‘old time’ recipes, but agree it would be good in that mix.

Did coors used to be more open about their ingredients back in those days? If so did they mention any more about their malts then unlike now? I get they grow their own stuff it’s just a pain trying to figure out use one or the other Pale/pils or a ratio… feel like my recipes in a pretty good spot right now though, haven’t made it yet to be sure enough though quite yet.

 

[ehall]

I just made this coors clone. not bad, not great. I would go find a different recipe next time. I looked at a bunch online and went with this one. carapils is not necessary.

6# 6 row
6# 2 row
3# flaked corn
1.5# cara pils
.75oz Magnum -60m
US05

 

[huckdavidson]

NAIL - North American Industrial Lager

Coors is apparently still Filtered with Enzinger filters - cotton and asbestos - hopefully they don't use asbestos anymore or maybe it's a common filter material in industry...

The recipe for these types of beers is constantly varied to adapt to changes in ingredients.

Tasting panels ensure the resulting product tastes as it is meant to.

Replicating industrial processes is difficult and making recipes by brand marketing material probably won't result in a true clone.

The difference between BMC is distinguishable by taste mainly due to the type of adjunct used.

A worthy endeavor would be to make a Light American Lager from base malt, adjunct, yeast and hops - possibly using an enzyme to lower the FG - and then refine your process and recipe to something you can be satisfied with. This leads down many rabbit holes such as low dissolved oxygen, yeast starters, hop extracts, etc...

From their current website - Water, Barley Malt, Corn Syrup*, Yeast, Hop Extract

In the past I have used:

RO water - treated with Cl to 50ppm and SO4 to 25ppm (could go even less for both!)
Pilsner Malt - 1.6-1.8L
Corn Syrup - Golden Barrel Corn Syrup - as long as it doesn't have vanilla in it
Yeast - Andechs
Hop Extract - from Northern Brewer, MoreBeer! or HopsDirect

I'll target 1.040 OG and 1.006 FG.

For 5.5gal @ 75% efficiency:

5 lb Pilsner
2 lb Corn Syrup ( added at start of boil - would like to try end of boil!)

Mash 147F for 60 min - 158F for 30 min - no mashout but bring to boil immediately.

15IBU w/ the hop extract

Ferment low and slow (w/ large quantity of yeast) 2 - 6 weeks w/ diacetyl rest and lager several weeks (very cold 32F)

If you have the ability to filter it, do so.

Lots of options here including BrewTanB, NaMeta, Filtering, Amylase Enzyme, water treatment, etc... the better your process the better the results.

At a homebrew scale - the industrial practices of adapting to various ingredients w/ a low oxygen process, filtering, etc... are something that most homebrewers won't be able to replicate but what you can do is to keep the process moving, don't mash for 90 minutes when conversion is done in 45 minutes, don't boil for longer than it takes to boil off DMS and get the bittering, don't ferment for longer than when FG is reached, etc... this just helps keep the resulting beer fresh.

 

[DBhomebrew]

CaCl to 50ppm and CaSO4 to 25ppm

What do you mean by this? The Ca contribution of each? The Cl and SO4 of each?

 

[tderanleau]

I just made this coors clone. not bad, not great. I would go find a different recipe next time. I looked at a bunch online and went with this one. carapils is not necessary.

6# 6 row
6# 2 row
3# flaked corn
1.5# cara pils
.75oz Magnum -60m
US05

Yeah nor the 6 row, coors is exclusive to 2 row malt and corn

 

[Broothru]

NAIL - North American Industrial Lager

Coors is apparently still Filtered with Enzinger filters - cotton and asbestos - hopefully they don't use asbestos anymore or maybe it's a common filter material in industry...

The recipe for these types of beers is constantly varied to adapt to changes in ingredients.

Tasting panels ensure the resulting product tastes as it is meant to.

Replicating industrial processes is difficult and making recipes by brand marketing material probably won't result in a true clone.

The difference between BMC is distinguishable by taste mainly due to the type of adjunct used.

A worthy endeavor would be to make a Light American Lager from base malt, adjunct, yeast and hops - possibly using an enzyme to lower the FG - and then refine your process and recipe to something you can be satisfied with. This leads down many rabbit holes such as low dissolved oxygen, yeast starters, hop extracts, etc...

From their current website - Water, Barley Malt, Corn Syrup*, Yeast, Hop Extract

In the past I have used:

RO water - treated with Cl to 50ppm and SO4 to 25ppm (could go even less for both!)
Pilsner Malt - 1.6-1.8L
Corn Syrup - Golden Barrel Corn Syrup - as long as it doesn't have vanilla in it
Yeast - Andechs
Hop Extract - from Northern Brewer, MoreBeer! or HopsDirect

I'll target 1.040 OG and 1.006 FG.

For 5.5gal @ 75% efficiency:

5 lb Pilsner
2 lb Corn Syrup ( added at start of boil - would like to try end of boil!)

Mash 147F for 60 min - 158F for 30 min - no mashout but bring to boil immediately.

15IBU w/ the hop extract

Ferment low and slow (w/ large quantity of yeast) 2 - 6 weeks w/ diacetyl rest and lager several weeks (very cold 32F)

If you have the ability to filter it, do so.

Lots of options here including BrewTanB, NaMeta, Filtering, Amylase Enzyme, water treatment, etc... the better your process the better the results.

At a homebrew scale - the industrial practices of adapting to various ingredients w/ a low oxygen process, filtering, etc... are something that most homebrewers won't be able to replicate but what you can do is to keep the process moving, don't mash for 90 minutes when conversion is done in 45 minutes, don't boil for longer than it takes to boil off DMS and get the bittering, don't ferment for longer than when FG is reached, etc... this just helps keep the resulting beer fresh.

Excellent summation. ‘Cloning’ a macro beer that is a moving target is probably an exercise in futility. Making an acceptable ’macro-like’ home brew that comes close or results in something you’re satisfied with should be the ultimate goal. We can try to match every aspect and nuance of a commercial beer, but unless you’re equipped to mimic every step of the pros you’ll never duplicate it.

 

[Broothru]

What was your recipe?

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Imagine my surprise in finding that indeed I had also used Chinook in my most recent recipe for Coor's Banquet. Anyway, here's the most recent iteration from about four years ago:

4# Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner
3# Rahr Pale Ale malt
2# Flaked Rice
8 oz CaraHell
8 oz acidulated

0.15 oz Hallertau Magnum FWH (5.3 IBU)
0.50 oz Chinook :05 min boil (8.3 IBU)
1.00 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh :20 min steep/whirlpool @ 90C/195F (1.5 IBU)
0.50 oz Chinook :20 min steep/whirlpool @ 90C/195F (5.1 IBU)

9.00 gallons distilled water (total: mash, sparge and top-off)
3.00 ml lactic acid (mash)
2.00 gr "Trifecta" (mash; BrewTan B, ascorbic acid, Sodium metabisulfate)
1.00 gr "Trifecta" (late boil)
1.00 gr Calcium sulfate (mash)
0.75 gr Calcium chloride (mash)
0.25 gr MgSO4 (Epsom)(mash)

Wyeast 2105-PC Rocky Mountain Lager (or other Andechs strain German lager yeast)

O.G. 1.042
F.G. 1.008
ABV 4.5%
SRM 3.5
IBU 20.2
BU/GU 0.493
SO4/Cl 1.8 (slightly bitter)

My notes indicate that the finished beer was very tasty and was a very good approximation of Coor's Banquet Beer. The calculated values for the hopping rates are a little higher (20.2 IBU) than normal, the sulfate:cloride ratio is slightly above "balanced" or "slightly malty", and yet the bitterness:gravity ratio of 0.493 is near the bottom range for lagers. I could probably delete the Epsom salt next time. As for the bitterness values, I can't explain it other than to say the AA% of both the Magnum and Chinook hops I used were listed on the high side and may have skewed the calculated values. I don't recall, and my tasting notes don't indicate, that the beer was in any way too hoppy however.

So there's the recipe and the numbers. I wouldn't call it a clone, but it was a close approximation, as well as a worthy tribute beer. Now you've gotten me all excited to brew it again! Cheers!

 

[Broothru]

Also came across this recipe for a Coor's Light (Like) Beer that dropped the flaked rice but added a pound of corn syrup just before flame out. Still 4# of Floor Malted Bohemian Pils, but only 1# Rahr pale malt, and only ¼ pound each Carahell and acidulated. Also used only 0.10 oz hop additions each of Chinook, Hallertau Taurus and Herkules @ :15 minutes , then 1.00 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh @ :05 minutes, for a total IBU of 10.4 (calculated). Added amyloglucosidaise with the yeast (2105-PC). OG 1.032/FG 1.000 ABV 4.2% (higher than I wanted but still in the range for American Light Lager - 1A; note to self: ditch the amylo next time).

My notes on this beer were pretty thin (i.e., "non-existent") so it was probably 'Meh' to 'uninspiring'. I may try brewing it again with a slightly lower OG and higher FG (no amylo) to approximate the 3.2% ABV "Freshman beer" of my misspent college years 55 solar orbits ago.