Cooper's Kits - feedback requested!

[tomheff]

I know that you weren't complaining. I just wanted to clarify in this forum that not all the Coopers beer kits use the same yeast.

The Australian Pale Ale is part of the International Series. It is intended to replicate the Coopers Pale Ale that is so popular in Australia. That is why it uses the same yeast as the Original Series. It is a little 'yeasty' but it is a good drop.

Actually I work for the US importer. Coopers is sold through 3 distributers in the US.

Let's see regarding the Coopers Australian Pale and dry hopping with Cascade hops... It might work. I wouldn't know for sure. There isn't a lot of aroma hop in the Coopers Pale Ale. I wouldn't boil the hops before you put them in the muslim bag. That may defeat the whole purpose of dry hopping -- aroma. Just put them in the muslim bag and float them on the top until you are ready to bottle. Do not float the hops loose. That will create too much sediment.

 

[Flattop]

In reverse order...
Tomhef, Coopers is a top drop down under i agree with that.

Tex, 1-2 packets is fine, dont heat them just chuck them on top of the krausen at the tail end of the ferment (approx day4-5) or in the hop bag and straight in.
BIAB is probably only 1 1/2 hours but you need time to get the water to boiling temps and that style avoids sparging and other traditional methods, requires only the one vessel etc etc... the method is being used a bit down under and i want to give it a go as AG is supposed to taste better, costs are really only the Urn. The bag is made of a veil type material and you need to get one to fit the urn.
I bought a couple of Cascade kits today, Spicy ghost and Golden Harvest. I will put them on in the new year as a trial. I run 3 fermenters when i am going at full tilt.

RE the Cascadia stuff, i agree for the most part but;
Sugars are not sugars, use Dextrose or DME i avoid maltodextrin as it adds nothing to body, i use about 70% dex 30%DME or 60/40 atm and i usually go about 1.2kilos in total. As for the yeast blurb i sort of agree except i found with US-05 i am getting a cleaner taste (perhaps a little fruity though). Nothing wrong with the Coopers Ale yeast in the standard pack but it does take a while for the aftertaste to go away and if you don't decant from the bottle to jug (i don't- into the glass and mouth for me) then the last 200mls can be yeasty.

My next point would be to say that there are other suppliers that have great kits, i use ESB kits in 3kilo cans that need only water and the results are great, the Belgian Wheat is great the hops are in the tin already and visible.

TB as i just mentioned US-05 is a great yeast and i think it brews up to 24*, not far from your desired range.
Safale US-05

 

[TexasStu]

Actually I work for the US importer. Coopers is sold through 3 distributers in the US.

Let's see regarding the Coopers Australian Pale and dry hopping with Cascade hops... It might work. I wouldn't know for sure. There isn't a lot of aroma hop in the Coopers Pale Ale. I wouldn't boil the hops before you put them in the muslim bag. That may defeat the whole purpose of dry hopping -- aroma. Just put them in the muslim bag and float them on the top until you are ready to bottle. Do not float the hops loose. That will create too much sediment.

I did enjoy the marketing better on your site (if I guess right). Although I chuckled on one of the others. Diff. target audience I imagine.

Yes, I never intended on boiling them. I understand the chance of infection from hops is remote. More worried about the bag, actually. Think I'll boil some water, cool it down some and put in a capful of the sanitizer and soak it for a minute or so before stuffing it with hops and placing it on the wort.
Then dig it out of the trub after bottling.

I think I am going to opt for 2 packets of hops (2oz/~56gms) to go along with my 'Getting Down Under Thunder' theme for this batch of Australian Pale Ale. Makes me chuckle thinking of possible graphics images for labels.

Man! That specific gravity sure does drop like a rock with this product! 8-10 points per day. Took a reading last night and down to 1014 (4 days).

One other thing that concerned me (a little) was that when I took a reading (opened tap enough to get about 4oz. out) is that it back-sucks through the airlock. A source of possible contamination in a dirty world. Didn't phase me TOO much though since I'll be opening it up anyway to toss in the hops. But it is pause for thought for when taking readings after majority of CO2 production is over and done. Obviously I have been taking too many readings (1 per day) since I want to know essentially the process, so I know enough to control or alter or adapt. I won't be taking as many readings in the future.

Do you know of a method to minimise this 'sucking'? Or to make it a trivial matter?

 

[TexasStu]

In reverse order...
RE the Cascadia stuff, i agree for the most part but;
Sugars are not sugars, use Dextrose or DME i avoid maltodextrin as it adds nothing to body, i use about 70% dex 30%DME or 60/40 atm and i usually go about 1.2kilos in total.

Aren't there times you want to increase strength without adding additional body? (such as a lighter brew, perhaps a pilsner or lager maybe?) Guess I am just saying I can see the point of using Maltodextrin in specific situations?

My next point would be to say that there are other suppliers that have great kits, i use ESB kits in 3kilo cans that need only water and the results are great, the Belgian Wheat is great the hops are in the tin already and visible.

Forgive my ig'nance but ESB = ?

 

[tomheff]

I did enjoy the marketing better on your site (if I guess right). Although I chuckled on one of the others. Diff. target audience I imagine.

Yes, if you are referring to the Cascadia Importers site it is our site. What is the other site that you are referring to?

Yes, I never intended on boiling them. I understand the chance of infection from hops is remote. More worried about the bag, actually.

If the bag is new, it shouldn't be an issue.

Do you know of a method to minimise this 'sucking'? Or to make it a trivial matter?

I wouldn't worry about the sucking. The CO2 gas that is in the bucket will force out any O2 that came in.

 

[TexasStu]

Yes, if you are referring to the Cascadia Importers site it is our site. What is the other site that you are referring to?

The makebeer.net site (with all the old style folks with the huge (viagra?) grins).

If the bag is new, it shouldn't be an issue.

ok, thanks!

I wouldn't worry about the sucking. The CO2 gas that is in the bucket will force out any O2 that came in.

More good news!
Looks like 2009 is going to be a GREAT year!

 

[TexasStu]

Oh yes, I'm looking at trying the Cascading Pale Ale recipe as one of my next batches:
(taken off your site, btw

have you had the chance to try this (or any of the recipes from your site)?

Cascading Coopers Pale Ale
by Brewtopia Homebrew Supplies

Original Gravity (°Plato) Final Gravity (°Plato) IBUs % Alc./Wt. (Alc./V.) Color SRM (EBC)
1.054 (13.5) 1.015 (3.75) 4.1 (5.2) ()

Description
This beer is delicious with a tremendous Cascade, grapefruit peel flavour and aroma. And what a marvellous body and residual sweetness!

Quantity [Metric] Ingredient Comment
1 can Coopers Lager Kit
1 can Coopers Light Malt extract
0.75 lb(s) [0.3 kg(s)] Light Crystal Malt
0.125 lb(s) [0.1 kg(s)] Dark Crystal Malt
0.125 lb(s) [0.1 kg(s)] Malted Wheat
3 oz [85 g] Cascade hops
2 pkg Coopers Ale yeast

Instruction
Steep all crushed grains in 7 litres (1.5 gallons) of water from the time the water is cold right up until the boil. Remove grains and add both cans of malt extract. Boil 10 minutes and add 30g (one oz) of the Cascade hops. Boil 20 more minutes and add another 30g (one oz) of Cascade. Boil 5 more minutes and remove pot from heat and add to 14 litres (3 gallons) of water in fermenter. Sprinkle in yeast when wort is around 26ºC (78.8ºF). After 3 days, add last 30g (one oz) of Cascade directly into fermenter. Bottle after 12 days total in the ferment, or rack to secondary for another week or so, and then bottle. Prime with 3/4 cup of dextrose.

 

[tomheff]

I myself have not tried that specific recipe. It was a recipe provided by a third party source. It sounds good though.

 

[TexasStu]

Yes, it does! :cross:
And it's a decent transitional into boiling I think.

 

[tomheff]

Yes, it does! :cross:
And it's a decent transitional into boiling I think.

Do not boil the malt extract if possible. It is unnecessary and it will darken the beer and caramelize it. Also the bittering in the Lager beer kit will be reduced.

 

[TexasStu]

Do not boil the malt extract if possible. It is unnecessary and it will darken the beer and caramelize it. Also the bittering in the Lager beer kit will be reduced.

I was wondering about that. Figured it was OK since y'all had it up on your site. Any suggestions to combining a boil?

The recipe calls for:

Remove grains and add both cans of malt extract. Boil 10 minutes and add 30g (one oz) of the Cascade hops. Boil 20 more minutes and add another 30g (one oz) of Cascade. Boil 5 more minutes and remove pot from heat and add to 14 litres (3 gallons) of water in fermenter.

Should I add the extract after the boil, combine with the 3 gallons in the fermenter and add the boil to that or something else (less obvious)?

I was intending on using a gallon milk container to re-oxidize (both the boiled/cooled water) and the boiled wort (from an ice bath), shaken up really well. I do not have a chiller or aeriater (sp?) so was going to and add to fermenter aftterwards

 

[Flattop]

Aren't there times you want to increase strength without adding additional body? (such as a lighter brew, perhaps a pilsner or lager maybe?) Guess I am just saying I can see the point of using Maltodextrin in specific situations?

Dex will increase ABV without adding body, DME adds both, Maltodextrin from what i remember adds sweetness but doesn't ferment much.....

Forgive my ig'nance but ESB = ?

Sorry it's a brand here Extra Special Bitter, comes in 1.7kilo and 3kilo cans.
The 3K cans make a great brew, when you cut the top off you can see the hops floating on top. tip it into the fermentor with 22 litres of water add the yeast... cant go wrong really. I did a Hoegaarden clone 2 days ago it comes with hops and corriander seeds inside....

 

[TexasStu]

Ah! Thanks

 

[Terry08]

I believe that Coopers kits are the same ones produced at the South Australian brewery. I am presently brewing their Mexican Cervesa x 44 litres 2batches.All their types give great results.

I do not know if it is available but the kits from the Tasmanian brewery "Cascade" has a variety called "Spicy Ghost" I brew this occationally as it costs a bit more but it is good. I am hoping that Tasmania's other famous brewery "Boags" comes up with some of its varieties.

I tend to use the varieties made by Tooheys, the Lager and Draught would be my mainstay.

Coopers were the first to deliver a product that would give the homebrewer a beer that rivelled the commercial brands even Coopers themselves. Others now try to match that quality to the delight of Australian homebrewers.

Using a kit it is essential to follow the 1 2 3 system 1 week in fermentation 2 weeks in the Secondary and 3 weeks in the bottle.

I have still to bottle a batch of the Cerveza which has been 3 weeks in Secondary but it will only improve.

 

[Flattop]

I agree Terry, the coopers kits are damn good, but as i said earlier they do tend to get a bit yeasty if drunk too green, i dry hop my Cerveza's.
I have a Cascade Spicy ghost here to go soon.
I tend not to rack the simpler brews, just 2 weeks in primary although i have used isinglass in a few to get the yeast into the trub before bottling.
As for the Fermenters, i have 3 and only 1 Coopers and i wish they were all Coopers, they seal better and are more squat in shape.

 

[ZooBrew]

I think the Cooper's Lager is excellent kegged. I add a pound of Belgian Rock Candy to take the top off the IMO, over-hopped finish. I've even throne the bag of 'lollies' in the wort and bottle-bucket primed at bottling.

I am told by MAKEBEER in Seatle that they sell the Cooper's fermenters, spigots and lids but not the grommet for the airlock, MIDWEST HOMEBREWING SUPPLIES does. I've had the grommet dry out ande not seal properly. These are great units and I have 2.

 

[Terry08]

Hmm! ever considered cling wrap, secured with a rubber band around the top and a pin hole to vent.

Works for me, Co2 sits on brew. the advantage is you can see how the brew is doing and you can read the Hydrometer if it floats on the top.

Actually as I use the 1,2,3 method I do not bother with the hydrometer just taste the result a week before bottling. I do not change from the kit only add Dextrose so inconsistancy is not an issue. You can tell if there is any residue sweetness unfermented. I do not have sugar in tea, coffee or cereal so I can detect even a minor amount of sweetness.

I do not use finnings as I believe all the necessary ingrediants are included.

 

[Flattop]

I've used the cling wrap method on my other Fermenters but the Coopers seals fine.

 

[Vic_Sinclair]

Late to the thread, but just want to second that the Cooper's fermenters do not like to seal. It was my first kit and my first two batches had zero airlock activity due to a bad seal. The beer turned out fine, but I bought some food-grade lubricant and put it on the O-ring for my third batch. Big mistake. It sealed it nice and tight, but after two weeks, the lubricant had turned into cement. I could not get the lid off the fermenter. I had to throw it away.

 

[Flattop]

I haven't had that problem with my Coopers fermenter, seals well. In fact of my 3 current fermenters the Coopers is the only one that seals well.

Another fermenter that i have does not seal so well and i use Vaseline on the O ring to seal it properly which also helps as a lubricant to unscrew it as it gets rather tight. It doesn't go hard like cement either.

Ohh one problem i had with the clingwrap method was an over excitable brew that leaked under the clingwrap and over my bar, it was only a few drips but still the fermenter stuck to the top of the bar and it took some force to get it off.

Airlock grommets are about $1-2usd down under and are available in almost every mall as the kits are common here in Kmart.

 

[TroubleBrewing]

Sadly it's cheaper and more convenient to get common stuff like airlocks, taps and grommets from the local Kmart than a LHBS, substantially so. I believe in supporting the LHBS but when grommets are a buck 50 at Kmart which is walking distance from my house, or $4 at the LHBS which is across town... I try and buy kits at the LHBS though, they're not much more expensive than the supermarket and have a much wider range, plus all the other goodies!

 

[Flattop]

I buy hops from the LHBS and will be getting grain soon also....
Kits i buy from LHBS and Kmart.... I brew on a budget....

 

[TexasStu]

Follow-up:
I'm really enjoying the Coopers product line. Much more to try but I have liked everything I've bottled so far! (ok, so only 2 so far but I'm 2 for 2! )
I avoid boiling the 'hopped liquid extracts' and choose to add after 'flameout'.
I do boil the other fermentables though but as good as the first batch came out (without boiling) I'm not too worried. Fullness, aroma, mouthfeel taste and aftertastes are all very nice and my only complaint is that I didn't trust the kit by itself and added a (too much) dry hop step. The only reason it's a complaint is I can't accurately critique the (stock) kit since I altered it. I went with my personal likes and made the hops jump right on top of the flavor pallette. My first batch is almost half gone and I am trying to hold onto some to bring over to Houston for my son's 21st Bday. We'll see how many make it

 

[Kronin]

I like glass myself. I go to the bottle recycling place in the city here they always hang onto all the grolsch bottles rather than recycle them because they are unique and they know people want them.
they are about $0.40 each and no capping. I got about 70 bottles (they are 475ml each) for about $27.
Grolsch bottles, for those who don't know, have the metal wire thingy on the top with a hard plastic stopeer and a rubber bung.... you pull it up on top then snap the wire down for a tight fit. very easy.
you can buy replacement rubber bungs for when they get old and dried out.

 

[TexasStu]

Nice find!
Not sure what this has to do with Coopers Kits (other than the old PET/Plastic vs. Glass)

 

[tridean]

Hi All,
Wanted to get in on this forum,seeing as it is a Coopers theme.

I am in Australia, and bought my first Coopers home brew kit. As I am a pale ale drinker, I bought that and the Enhancer 2 sugar, for my first brew. (I'll do the larger one next and give it to my friends).

The only issues I had was with the o-ring not sealing properly. Although the beer fermented well, well I am supposing it did, going from OG of 1042 to FG of 1008 in 4 days, the air lock did not bubble once. I am going to look for some vasoline to put on the seal for batch #2. I could tell that this must have been where the air leaked from because putting my nose right under the lid I could smell it.

Using the pet bottles, and will see how it pans out, although I really do enjoy drinking out of the stubby glass bottles.

Cheers
Dean

 

[Eves]

Hi All,
Wanted to get in on this forum,seeing as it is a Coopers theme.

I am in Australia, and bought my first Coopers home brew kit. As I am a pale ale drinker, I bought that and the Enhancer 2 sugar, for my first brew. (I'll do the larger one next and give it to my friends).

The only issues I had was with the o-ring not sealing properly. Although the beer fermented well, well I am supposing it did, going from OG of 1042 to FG of 1008 in 4 days, the air lock did not bubble once. I am going to look for some vasoline to put on the seal for batch #2. I could tell that this must have been where the air leaked from because putting my nose right under the lid I could smell it.

Using the pet bottles, and will see how it pans out, although I really do enjoy drinking out of the stubby glass bottles.

Cheers
Dean

Coopers Pale Ale kit...I was disappointed in that one. When it was fermenting the house was filled with a fantastic aroma. Even my wife loved it. But when it came to actually drinking it the Coopers Pale Ale was missing something. I never could put my finger on what was missing. It was acceptable to me but sadly none of my friends or family liked it at all.

With regards to the o-ring not sealing... Honestly you do not need a perfect seal. If you skip the lid on your fermenter and just laid a piece of plywood on top the beer would still ferment well. The main reason why we 'try' to get a good seal with our fermenters is to reduce the risk of contamination. And to be blunt...while contamination does happen from time to time a perfectly sealed or unsealed fermenter lid rarely ever has anything to do with it. The lid is there to keep larger particles from getting in. Considering beer has been brewed for thousands of years the need for the perfect seal is overblown IMO.

PET bottles... They've worked great for me so far. Though I have to say I did get some nasty blisters screwing the tops on 30 bottles last time I bottled with them. I do think I prefer normal 12oz glass bottles but I have no problem resorting to using the PET bottles when I'm out of glass ones.

 

[CATFISHER74]

I still don't understand why i t comes with a lager kit.
Most new homebrewrs dont already have a separate refrigerator dedicated to lagering.

 

[Eves]

I still don't understand why i t comes with a lager kit.
Most new homebrewrs dont already have a separate refrigerator dedicated to lagering.

I believe the Coopers Lager kit comes with an Ale yeast. Which means that if you use what the kit gives you you're not going to end up with a true lager and can just ferment at normal Ale temps. In addition, Coopers kit instructions tend to recommend fermenting temps that are even higher than standard ale temps. Silly Aussies.

 

[ZooBrew]

The COOPERS LAGER kit is great for experimenting with. I just did the kit with the following:

In the 2 liters of boiled water that you start with, steep 2 0z. CRYSTAL 15L and 4 oz. of MUNICH grain in a bag for 15 min. Return to boil and then proceed as per instructions.

Could the word 'delicious' be used when describing the taste of beer?