Cooper's Kits - feedback requested!

[TexasStu]

Cooper's brand (sodium percarbonate) as seen HERE.

Thank though, I think you pretty much helped me make up my mind. I'll worry more after my 1st batch when I clean for the next batch

 

[Pivzavod]

Yesterday I bottled a batch in made in Coopers fermentor (first time using Party Pig). Today I bottled another batch made in my 9 gallon fermentor and currently cooling down wort that will go into my other Coopers fermentor. I took out my White Labs out of the fridge 6 hours ago. In order to get it adjusted to room temperature better I kept it in a cup of rotated water which was kept between 70-75. I am not making a starter (I will only use Wyeast Activators for liquid yeast from now) and I wanted to kick start the yeasties as much as I could without a starter.

Not bad for a newbie? Next week I am getting 2 kits (Hanks Hefe & Witbier), both with liquid yeast, I will brew a New Year beer and furthermore establish my pipeline.

Now time to update the signature....

Not bad 2 days for a newbie

 

[TexasStu]

OK!
I have some warm wort so am waiting to pitch the yeast until it gets a few degrees cooler. Wish my wort luck and thanks for the replies!

 

[TexasStu]

Thanks again!

I pitched and sealed at 2000 CST tonight. If I messed up somewhere I imagine I'll find out. If not I should be bottling by the 16th!

 

[Saccharomyces]

I *always* screw something up but my beer comes out fine..

When I have a smooth brewday where nothing went wrong, I worry I *REALLY* messed up.

 

[NZGirl]

I *always* screw something up but my beer comes out fine..

When I have a smooth brewday where nothing went wrong, I worry I *REALLY* messed up.

lol

TexasStu, I can't believe you're going to be patient and wait until the 16th! Good on you! Congrats on getting the first brew up and going...

It'll be bubbling by morning no doubt.

 

[TexasStu]

Good to hear, NZGirl! I'm already worried because it doesn't seem to be bubbling at all and it's been 5 hours! I'll check in the morning and see

 

[TexasStu]

Oh! and I didn't say I'd wait. I said by the 16th.
I'm going to TRY to wait 3 full weeks though. Not sure I'll make it throught the night at this point.
Ever feel like your batch is your baby (with SIDS?) LOL! Well, I'm off to try to get a few winks and see how it goes
Enjoy!

 

[NZGirl]

haha Mr Impatient... my batches weren't bubbling within the first few hours either... but I think by the time you get up in the morning it will be...

But don't worry if it's not... I've read it can even take 72 hours...

Let us know if it's bubbling...

 

[Pogo]

Tex -

What OG did you log into the notebook which you have started?

Just curious, since I intend to do a lot of experimenting with extract kits as well.

Pogo

 

[Eves]

I love my Coopers fermentor. The thing is well over 7 gallons in capacity, has a nice screw top lid (perfect size IMO), is somewhat see through so you can see how the krausen is doing... The PET bottles you get with the Coopers kit work just fine (though I did get a blister tightning the caps last time I bottled with them) and are quicker to deal with given their size (740ml).

The pre-hopped canned beer kits are...well...they are lacking IMO. They can make a decent brew but I personally think they are a step below extract brew kits you can get from your LHBS. Lack of control of the ingredients due to the can doesn't help their case. But again...you can make a decent brew with them.


I am very happy my start into world of home brewing was with a Coopers kit. Just a few additions of equipment and it just gets better and better.

 

[TexasStu]

Still not bubbling.
I misread my hydrometer too (was reading above the 40 line as 40+ instead of 40-...

1036 last night at 8pm
1034 just now (10am) (~14 hours later)

So I guess it's doing it's (invisible) thing?

 

[TexasStu]

Thanks Eves! Hopefully my batch will come out fine. Maybe it's just a secret bubbler and stops when I enter the room?

 

[Eves]

Still not bubbling?

Well, first of all a non-bubbling airlock is not a clear indication of anything.

Second...One thing to note with the Coopers fermentor is that I always have a hard time properly sealing the lid. You can tighten down the lid as tight as it will go and still there can be a leak somewhere. One way to tell if you have a leak is to put the lid on, put some liquid in the airlock and then squeeze the fermentor just a little bit. When you squeeze the fermentor the water level in the airlock should change. If the fermentor is airtight, or near airtight, the water level should remain in that changed water level for 30+ seconds. If the water level levels off quickly there is a leak somewhere.

For my coopers fementer I like to put some plumbers food grade silicone on the lid's threads where it comes in contact with the fermenter. You can find this stuff in the plumbing dept of hardware/home improvement stores. Also, you can try adjusting the tightness of the lid (a little looser or tighter) and then squeezing the fermentor again. The little adjustment might do the trick.

However, I must re-iterate that a lack of airlock activity means nothing. Let it sit a week and then just the gravity.

 

[TexasStu]

Still not bubbling?

Well, first of all a non-bubbling airlock is not a clear indication of anything.

Second...One thing to note with the Coopers fermentor is that I always have a hard time properly sealing the lid. You can tighten down the lid as tight as it will go and still there can be a leak somewhere. One way to tell if you have a leak is to put the lid on, put some liquid in the airlock and then squeeze the fermentor just a little bit. When you squeeze the fermentor the water level in the airlock should change. If the fermentor is airtight, or near airtight, the water level should remain in that changed water level for 30+ seconds. If the water level levels off quickly there is a leak somewhere.

For my coopers fementer I like to put some plumbers food grade silicone on the lid's threads where it comes in contact with the fermenter. You can find this stuff in the plumbing dept of hardware/home improvement stores. Also, you can try adjusting the tightness of the lid (a little looser or tighter) and then squeezing the fermentor again. The little adjustment might do the trick.

However, I must re-iterate that a lack of airlock activity means nothing. Let it sit a week and then just the gravity.

Yes, I've done the test and the level stayed changed (not level) for a long time. I'm not going to worry about it too much although it keeps negging at me and I have to keep dismissing it.

I've been reluctant to loosen it any for fear of letting air in and possible contamination. I've probably have it tighter than it should be as I did tighten it some.

 

[TeufelBrew]

DO NOT TOUCH THAT BEER!!!

If you did a 5 gallon batch in your Coopers fermenter, you will likely never see any airlock activity. You took another SG and it was down 2 pts. It's working.

Look in the top translucent part, is there a foamy head (krausen) forming? That's your visual indication the yeast are happily eating sugar, belching CO2 and peeing ETOH.

Follow Papazian's advice here. Leave it alone for at least 2 weeks, preferably more. You will have better beer if you let it work at it's pace.

Enjoy your new obsession!

 

[TexasStu]

The kit actually calls for 23 liters (6.07 US Gallons).
I did play with it a LITTLE... Just the lid and the seals. It started bubbling immediately so SOMETHING wasn't completely tight.
There is the beginnings of a crust forming.

I was going to sacrifice a beer on this first batch to gauge a 'control' (by taking several hydrometer readings) approx. 4oz/reading. Do you think this is a good idea or just a waste of good beer? Should I go down to 2 readings/week or just start reading every 2-3 days after 2 weeks?
Recommendations WELCOME!

 

[NZGirl]

Yay! Glad it's bubbling now... although as mentioned by others lack of bubbling in the airlock doesn't mean it's not working... but it is reassuring when it does.

I wouldn't take any more hydrometer readings now for at least a week... you can leave it until two or three days prior to your intended bottling day to get an identical reading 24 hrs apart.

I know it's tempting to keep fiddling with it!

Edit: PS: I still look at mine several times a day even though it's doing nothing! lol

 

[TexasStu]

I know it's tempting to keep fiddling with it!

Edit: PS: I still look at mine several times a day even though it's doing nothing! lol

Me too!

 

[TexasStu]

Added this to to include link to my blog.
Thanks to everyone who contributed and took time out of your day to help! :rockin:
Not much to see there. I'm sure I'll get my documentation better with time.
I have not made a firm bottle date (yet) but am convinced 2+ weeks in primary and 2+ weeks (contrary to printed kit instructions) is the way to go.
We'll see if I can make the 3 week commitment or not, eh?

 

[NZGirl]

three weeks is so loooooong... that's why I got two primaries... my first is now at day 13 and I'm struggling not to bottle it today... wait, wait, wait... I have never been a patient person, lol... the second primary I will definitely wait.

good luck with your waiting.

 

[TeufelBrew]

Texas and NZ, I feel your painful experience learning patience!!!!!

Go to the store and buy some good beer you really like. Enjoy those and give your beer time to mature properly. You'll be much happier with the results if you just let the yeast work their magic in their own time.

Meanwhile, get cracking on the next brew!! NZ, good job on another primary! Tex, get another, or be ready when you transfer to put another batch in. Once that pipeline gets going, you'll be surprised how fast a batch of your beer goes.

Most importantly, welcome to the addiciton!!! Waaaaaahahahahhaha

 

[Flattop]

Hi guys from downunder...
Thats where these Coopers kits come from, we generally don't use glass carboys, every man and his dog (who brews) uses a plastic food grade fermenter (often Coopers).
They are easy to clean as the lid comes off, don't scratch them, use soft cleaning pads and bleach to clean them. If they smell leave them in the sun for a day. If the airlock doesn't bubble check the lid is tight and the seal isn't leaking. You can use Vaseline on the O ring seal to seal it better.

The Coopers beer kits are ok but i suggest a better yeast such as US-05. With the bog standard yeast you need a longer bottle life to get the yeasty aftertaste out.

As for PET bottles??? Fantastic, no bottle bombs, easy to clean and store (dont use hot water in them), Max shelf life without losing carbonation of 12-18 months (downside) Here you can buy replacement caps as apparently after about 10 uses some of the caps don't seal as well (i've had no problems so far.
I use a mix of both PET and glass. Glass is great but heavier and breaks easily.

 

[TroubleBrewing]

Hey Flattop, I'm from downunder too, Cairns FNQ, and yep I'm using plastic pails. I've actually got a brew going at the moment I'm a bit worried about though, it's been over two weeks and it's still tasting sweet with a light vegemite scent to it, and the current gravity's way too high, even though it's been bubbling like billy-o. Ahh well, RDWHAHB, right? I'm still waiting on my kegging gear so no problem letting it sit longer. I've used the PET bottles too, they're great, but I'm going to be bottling the remainder of this batch in glass for presentation, hopefully the beer's worth it.

 

[TexasStu]

I already ordered another Coopers Beer Kit (primary fermenter) and it's due to arrive on Jan. 5th.
I figured I will be wanting two fermenters and I so really like the Coopers fermenter!
I know the beginning is the rough spot. Once I have some stockpiled I should be fine!
I have some cascade hops (pellets) coming from AHS (and muslum bag). I am going out on a limb and going to try dry hopping on my first batch! Wish me luck with that! LOL
My understanding is:
boil the bag put hops in it and (carefully) remove lid of the primary and just set it on top?
(should I boil some marbles to weight it down?)
I am looking for the extra crispness without the added bitterness. I'm figuring on adding it at the 1 week mark and then leaving 1-2 weeks in there prior to bottling.

My observation of the Coopers Kits (so far) are that they feel "one-yeast-fits-all" (lager, real ale and APA all have the same 'Coopers Brewing Yeast' dry packet in them.

I am still formulating what I want to do for my second batch but I will probably lean towards using up the lagers (extract kit included with each fermenter). Unfortunately I do not have a proper way to ferment at low temps (as I should) but the lager kits (with standard yeast) maintain the 21-27C range so not too sure how it will turn out.
One of the things I liked about using the Cooper's kits (when I researched) was that I could ferment at 'room temps' (we have central air so that is my temp. reg.)
Well, I'll have to see how it goes!

 

[tomheff]

My observation of the Coopers Kits (so far) are that they feel "one-yeast-fits-all" (lager, real ale and APA all have the same 'Coopers Brewing Yeast' dry packet in them.

I am still formulating what I want to do for my second batch but I will probably lean towards using up the lagers (extract kit included with each fermenter). Unfortunately I do not have a proper way to ferment at low temps (as I should) but the lager kits (with standard yeast) maintain the 21-27C range so not too sure how it will turn out.
One of the things I liked about using the Cooper's kits (when I researched) was that I could ferment at 'room temps' (we have central air so that is my temp. reg.)
Well, I'll have to see how it goes!

I just wanted to follow up and clarify regarding the yeast on the Coopers kits since I work for Coopers. All the Coopers beer kits that are part of the Original series (Lager, Draught, Real Ale, Bitter, Dark Ale, and Stout) do use the same use yeast. The yeast used is similar to the yeast that the Coopers Brewery uses for its bottle conditioned ales.

The Brewmaster Selection Series and The Premium Selection Series use stylistically appropriate yeast strains. The Pilsner, the Heritage Lager, and the European Lager use a hybrid lager strain similar to the California common strain. This allows for a wider range of temperature flexibility.
The IPA and the Irish Stout use an English Ale strain. The Wheat Beer uses a weizen strain, etc.

 

[TexasStu]

Thanks for the reply, Tom!
Please don't get my wording to mean I am complaining. I actually am glad I am not having to worry about multiple temperature ranges!
I assume the Australian Pale Ale is among the 'Original series' as it had the same yeast as well.
I am curious, do you know when Coopers began distruting through their distributor in the USA?
I'm pretty sure we (in the U.S.) have a 'shortlist' of all Coopers offers. Of course, I don't have any issues with that. In fact, I am happy we have the option of getting a Coopers as a startup kit (or I wouldn;t have bought another one before I even have a batch completed!

I'm a huge pale ale fan. I also like other beers but I believe I would say pale ales are my favorite. I am thinking of trying a batch of blue moon (clone) for SWMBO as my wife has been wholly supportive of my new hobby and Blue Moon is one of the few beers she has actually admitted to liking.

Oh! After I get a few batches under my belt, as it were I would love to try out that "For a tasty Summer treat, which uses liberal amounts of clover honey, see our 'Very Berry Honey Wheat Ale' recipe in our recipe database." as well as the Coopers Sparkling Ale!

Let me ask YOU something...
I did this (my first) batch using the APA (Australian Pale Ale) (instead of the Lager) along with the Brew Enhancer 2 and included Cooper yeast...

I'm thinking of tossing in 3oz. of cascadia hops as a 'dry hopping' addition (after 1 week in fermenter) for the additional 'crispness'.
Do you believe this is a bad idea?
If I do, do you think 6oz would be more adequate?
I have a small muslin bag, would you boil that and toss the hops in the bag or just loose?

 

[Flattop]

TB, that vegimite thing is not good, it sounds like the yeast is eating itself... a bit unusual if there is sugar left. Perhaps the FNQ weather is too hot or possible infection. Suggest cooling it down a bit, this advice is for Texstu as well, sit it in a tray which you can fill with water and ice, drape a towel over it that is dipped into the water and then you have an outback fridge, top up the ice a few times a day.
Mind you the Coopers kits work fine at around 22*c most of mine are brewed at that temp.

Tex, with regards to dry hopping i usually use 25-50 gms which apparently is less than 3oz but my conversions are not great, so i would suggest 6gms may be a bit much.
I am moving to BIAB next year which involves using a bag similar to a dry hopping bag but larger putting 5kilos of grain in it and putting it in an electric urn of 40liters capacity, boiling for around 2 hours (add hops for the last 20 mins) and you are left with the wort afterward. You can still dry hop the wort.
As for the marbles i would think not as you would drop the hop bag into the trub and it may block the bag up. i throw my hops on top, i don't mind a bit of green stuff in my bottle, anyhow let the bag float on top, it will probably sink after a while anyhow.

Tomheff thanks for your insight into the yeasts, I find the Coopers yeast can leave aftertaste if it is drunk too early but after a month in the bottle it is great. Oh i also used a Weizen yeast with the Coopers Larger kit and it made a really funky brew, dry hopped with 25gms Hersbrucker.
I have only one beef with Coopers, they advertise using sugar not dex or dme in their kits, almost everyone complains about the cidery taste afterwards.... Otherwise great gear, and good beer on tap too.

 

[TroubleBrewing]

Flattop, it's in a swamp chiller that I cycle frozen bottles through, keeping it at about 24-26... It has been peaking at about 28-30 though when I've been away and not able to change the bottles. *sigh* This is one weird ferment. If anyone out there's from a yeast lab, develop just one yeast that's happy around 26-28c and I will buy nothing else.

 

[TexasStu]

TB, that vegimite thing is not good, it sounds like the yeast is eating itself... a bit unusual if there is sugar left. Perhaps the FNQ weather is too hot or possible infection. Suggest cooling it down a bit, this advice is for Texstu as well, sit it in a tray which you can fill with water and ice, drape a towel over it that is dipped into the water and then you have an outback fridge, top up the ice a few times a day.
Mind you the Coopers kits work fine at around 22*c most of mine are brewed at that temp.

Yes, I was going to say something about vegimite sounding like (the dreaded) peanut butter but trying not to be a 'sea-lawyer' and spout off, being a n00b and all.

Tex, with regards to dry hopping i usually use 25-50 gms which apparently is less than 3oz but my conversions are not great, so i would suggest 6gms may be a bit much.

I have six 28gm packets. Elsewhere I believe I have read to use 6-8oz for ~6 gallons (obviously ~23 liters for a batch). So 1-2 packets? That works for me.

I am moving to BIAB next year which involves using a bag similar to a dry hopping bag but larger putting 5kilos of grain in it and putting it in an electric urn of 40liters capacity, boiling for around 2 hours (add hops for the last 20 mins) and you are left with the wort afterward. You can still dry hop the wort.

BIAB = Boil in a bag? That's a bit longer than the normal 60 mins, eh? Why so long?
The Blue Moon US micro clone) I'd like to attempt (for my wife & I) involves a boil (with standard triple 'hop dip') I believe. I want to get a few batches out and at least a taste or two of something I've let season a bit.
I was looking for a US distrib. of the Coopers Sparkling Ale but it's either not an international export (yet) or nobody I've looked at of their retailers (Cascadia Imports) which I finally figured out is the importer and makebeer.net is one of their retailers. We'll see who I 'adhere' to who will get me what I want from the Coopers line, eh?

As for the marbles i would think not as you would drop the hop bag into the trub and it may block the bag up. i throw my hops on top, i don't mind a bit of green stuff in my bottle, anyhow let the bag float on top, it will probably sink after a while anyhow.

Ok, I can do loose or in a bag. /shrug

Tomheff thanks for your insight into the yeasts, I find the Coopers yeast can leave aftertaste if it is drunk too early but after a month in the bottle it is great. Oh i also used a Weizen yeast with the Coopers Larger kit and it made a really funky brew, dry hopped with 25gms Hersbrucker.
I have only one beef with Coopers, they advertise using sugar not dex or dme in their kits, almost everyone complains about the cidery taste afterwards.... Otherwise great gear, and good beer on tap too.

When I got mine it came with (of course) the lager and 'brewing sugar' (Dextrose, Maltodextrin) and I wish I knew how much of each, just for experimentation.
Anyways, my first batch (as I have mentioned) I substituted the Australian Pale Ale (and it's yeast packet) for the lager and the 'Brew Enhancer 2' (Dextrose, Light Dry Malt, Maltodextrin) for the 'brewing sugar'.
There a pretty good presentation of why they do that by the US distributor (HERE) and the 5 points he covers at least explained (to ME) why they choose to do what they do (as well as to catch that 'easy button' audience? ).
I am reserving judgement until I have a chance to play it their way and play with some recipes (which is mainly why I'm disappointed I do not find someone in the USA who carries their 'full' line of product). Oh well! If they hook you and reel you in and then let you get off their 'hook' to go off and get caught by some other producer don;t come crying to ME!

Obviously it's about creation, creativity and imagination, right? I would not be too surprised if someone sees additional 'niche audiences' within the superset.

Thanks for the reply! Sorry mine was soooo wordy. LOL