Cooper's Extra Smooth English Bitter

[ThatITGuy]

Hi all,

I'm going to be brewing a Cooper's English Bitter kit soon, it'll be my first solo brew. I know there's a lot of hate toward these types of kits but I'm just starting out.

I curious about modifying the recipe, and I wanted to see if it made sense to get a close match.

The recipe on Cooper's site for the Extra Smooth English Bitter:

Ingredients
1.7kg English Bitter
1kg Coopers Brew Enhancer 1 (500gDME+500gDextrose)
200g Molasses
Coopers Carbonation Drops
Colour: Copper
Body: Medium
Bitterness: Medium/High
Approx. Alcohol Level: 4.1% ABV
Naturally Carbonated: Natural

My Proposed Recipe (going for similar flavours, while boosting ABV)

1.7kg English Bitter
500g Medium DME (Munton's)
1.5kg Dextrose
200g Molasses OR 250g Dark Brown Sugar
Hoping for 5%+ ABV

The idea is that the DME + 500g Dextrose is a clone of the brew enhancer, while the extra 1Kg of dextrose is going to boost the ABV, hopefully not causing too many adverse effects on the mouthfeel. The Dark brown sugar addition would also help to boost ABV, while giving it some molasses content.

How does this sound, do think my modifications are in-line with my expectations?

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

Just be careful yes sugar will increase your gravity in return giving you more ABV but its possible to over sweeten the beer too.

Maybe if you want to increase your ABV you should try steeping some malt. Someone with more kit experience might be able to help you better.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

I found this article for you.

Effects of Adding Sugar
In addition to increasing the alcohol content, adding more sugar during the brewing process can affect the color, flavor and body of the beer. Using corn sugar, or dextrose, will lighten the body and color of the beer without affecting the flavor profile of the beer.
Hops and Homebrew
Other sugars such as Belgian candi sugar, which is sucrose, will sometimes darken the beer and add body while also having the potential to impart different flavors including caramel and honey, among others.
Adding sugars can definitely make things interesting though, it’s also important to know that having too many sugars can be a bad thing. If the sugar content is too high for the yeast to ferment, you will be left with an overly sweet product that resembles something of cider rather than beer. Too much sugar can also lead to over-carbonation.

http://learn.kegerator.com/raising-abv/

 

[ThatITGuy]

I found this article for you.

Effects of Adding Sugar
In addition to increasing the alcohol content, adding more sugar during the brewing process can affect the color, flavor and body of the beer. Using corn sugar, or dextrose, will lighten the body and color of the beer without affecting the flavor profile of the beer.
Hops and Homebrew
Other sugars such as Belgian candi sugar, which is sucrose, will sometimes darken the beer and add body while also having the potential to impart different flavors including caramel and honey, among others.
Adding sugars can definitely make things interesting though, it’s also important to know that having too many sugars can be a bad thing. If the sugar content is too high for the yeast to ferment, you will be left with an overly sweet product that resembles something of cider rather than beer. Too much sugar can also lead to over-carbonation.

http://learn.kegerator.com/raising-abv/

Thank you for that, very interesting. Thinking about the over-carbing aspect, depending on the yeast I used it may eat up most of the extra sugar. Could potentially be no need for priming sugars then?

 

[unionrdr]

Steeping grains, like specialty malts or caramel;/'crystal malts. They'd need to be crushed, & steeped in a bag in water of no more than 160F for 20-30 minutes. You could sparge them to get more sugary wort out of them as well.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

Thank you for that, very interesting. Thinking about the over-carbing aspect, depending on the yeast I used it may eat up most of the extra sugar. Could potentially be no need for priming sugars then?

Well, I don't think it would take place of the priming sugar but it might adjust how much you use. Honestly, I would just crush and steep malt you will get more flavor and everything with that.

 

[ThatITGuy]

Hoping to keep it simple for the first go, I do want to get into extract and eventually AG. Need to get a few kits under my belt before getting too involved though (and make sure I can justify the extra equipment cost). If I were to go the steeping route, is it better to use water then add to wort, or mix the wort then take a gallon and steep that?

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

Hoping to keep it simple for the first go, I do want to get into extract and eventually AG. Need to get a few kits under my belt before getting too involved though (and make sure I can justify the extra equipment cost). If I were to go the steeping route, is it better to use water then add to wort, or mix the wort then take a gallon and steep that?

You don't really need much to steep grains. The LHBS will crush them for you and its cheap to get one of those mesin (spelling?) bags. You put the grain in the bag and start everything like normal. Add your DME and the water mixed and bring it up to the 155 range and put the bag in there for a half hour take it out then start the boil. So it just adds one step to your process and you will get better beers with more body, color, and ABV.

 

[unionrdr]

I quit using the muslin bags, as they stain easy & take days to soak clean. The nylon paint strainer bags clean quicker & easier. I steep first, sparge, then add DME for the boil in those kind of beers (E/SG).

 

[Sadu]

The Coopers kits actually taste not too bad at 4% but you can get yourself in trouble trying to push too high. The issue is the simple sugars - if there is too much sugar vs malt then it can taste a bit homebrewey. Problem is that as soon as you try for above 5% ABV by adding DME instead of simple sugar, things start getting expensive and all-grain / unhopped extract kits start looking like a better option. So the key is balancing the cheap simple sugars and the expensive DME to get something that works.

I try to keep simple sugars to a max of 15-20% for these kinds of brews. If you do the kit and kilo as suggested in the recipe that is about 37% simple sugars which many people (myself included) believe is far too high. Basically you are increasing ABV at the expense of taste.

Personally I would up the ABV by using slightly less water - 19 litres instead of 23 into the fermenter, then add your extra 500g DME, then add 500g total of sugar (dextrose + brown sugar or molasses).

According to Beersmith this will give you a target OG of 1.047 / FG of 1.008 for 5.1% ABV, with the bitterness increased from 35 to 42 IBUs. Simple sugars is 18.5% of the recipe which isn't over the top.

If you go ahead with your original suggestion that would be around 44% simple sugars - in my view this is too high, you might well be disappointed in how it tastes.

Keep the fermentation temperatures around 18-20c for best results (ignore the instructions that say 21-27c).

 

[ThatITGuy]

The Coopers kits actually taste not too bad at 4% but you can get yourself in trouble trying to push too high. The issue is the simple sugars - if there is too much sugar vs malt then it can taste a bit homebrewey. Problem is that as soon as you try for above 5% ABV by adding DME instead of simple sugar, things start getting expensive and all-grain / unhopped extract kits start looking like a better option. So the key is balancing the cheap simple sugars and the expensive DME to get something that works.

I try to keep simple sugars to a max of 15-20% for these kinds of brews. If you do the kit and kilo as suggested in the recipe that is about 37% simple sugars which many people (myself included) believe is far too high. Basically you are increasing ABV at the expense of taste.

Personally I would up the ABV by using slightly less water - 19 litres instead of 23 into the fermenter, then add your extra 500g DME, then add 500g total of sugar (dextrose + brown sugar or molasses).

According to Beersmith this will give you a target OG of 1.047 / FG of 1.008 for 5.1% ABV, with the bitterness increased from 35 to 42 IBUs. Simple sugars is 18.5% of the recipe which isn't over the top.

If you go ahead with your original suggestion that would be around 44% simple sugars - in my view this is too high, you might well be disappointed in how it tastes.

Keep the fermentation temperatures around 18-20c for best results (ignore the instructions that say 21-27c).

Wow, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. Beersmith sounds like an excellent resource, would you recommend it for a newbie? It seems pretty overkill for what I'll be doing. (At least for now..) Also, how are you calculating the amount of simple sugars that you were talking about?

I think I'll stick to your recommendation then, I've done a few Festa Brew kit & kilos and I liked them. This time I opted to try Cooper's as I've heard good things and the lower price point is attractive. I think once I get a few of these into my system I'll be more comfortable with trying some steeped grains or get myself a proper Extract kit.

I quit using the muslin bags, as they stain easy & take days to soak clean. The nylon paint strainer bags clean quicker & easier. I steep first, sparge, then add DME for the boil in those kind of beers (E/SG).

Thanks for the tip, I'll check those out.

 

[Sadu]

Beersmith sounds like an excellent resource, would you recommend it for a newbie? It seems pretty overkill for what I'll be doing. (At least for now..) Also, how are you calculating the amount of simple sugars that you were talking about?

I think if you are wanting to modify recipes and don't 100% know what you are doing then Beersmith or something like it is essential. Even if you don't plan to modify recipes you will still find yourself having to make ingredient substitutes based on what is locally available or having to convert the 10 gallon recipe you found online into a 23 litre recipe that you can actually use.

There is a 3rd party addon you can download which installs the Coopers kits into Beersmith so you can enter different amouts/types of sugar and see what effect that will have on ABV, OG, bitterness, etc. This doesn't guarantee good beer at all but it makes it easier to spot problems with your recipe. Plus it gives you a target gravity / volume to aim for (on your modified recipe) which helps you spot problems easier if you miss your targets.

Once you get into all-grain it also tells you how much water you need to use, which varies based on your equipment and how much grain in the recipe.

Really, I can't recommend it enough, especially if you like to tinker with recipes which from your first post seems to be the case. There are other free alternatives available, I haven't tried them, but I don't think $27 is expensive for what you get.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

There we go, someone who knows more about these kits and metrics! woohoo

 

[unionrdr]

I've done a lot with Cooper's cans from AE to Pm/PB BIAB. I have a few recipes using them y'all can have a look at for ideas on what/how much to use. Sugars do have their place, but no more than a pound. I prefer adding plain DME &/or grain steep/mash to the equation. They're not hard to do & give better results by basically adding more malts & less sugars.

 

[ThatITGuy]

I've done a lot with Cooper's cans from AE to Pm/PB BIAB. I have a few recipes using them y'all can have a look at for ideas on what/how much to use. Sugars do have their place, but no more than a pound. I prefer adding plain DME &/or grain steep/mash to the equation. They're not hard to do & give better results by basically adding more malts & less sugars.

That's the route I'm headed (AE, PM) I just don't have the money to get the extra equipment right now. I found a brand new turkey fryer with stand and everything for about 85$ so hopefully I'll pick that up to use for BK and try an extract soon! Also need a chiller or some sort, a part from that I should be good to go!

Edit: That Moonwind dark sounds good!!

 

[ncbrewer]

The Coopers kits actually taste not too bad at 4% but you can get yourself in trouble trying to push too high. The issue is the simple sugars - if there is too much sugar vs malt then it can taste a bit homebrewey. Problem is that as soon as you try for above 5% ABV by adding DME instead of simple sugar, things start getting expensive and all-grain / unhopped extract kits start looking like a better option. So the key is balancing the cheap simple sugars and the expensive DME to get something that works.

I try to keep simple sugars to a max of 15-20% for these kinds of brews. If you do the kit and kilo as suggested in the recipe that is about 37% simple sugars which many people (myself included) believe is far too high. Basically you are increasing ABV at the expense of taste.

Personally I would up the ABV by using slightly less water - 19 litres instead of 23 into the fermenter, then add your extra 500g DME, then add 500g total of sugar (dextrose + brown sugar or molasses).

According to Beersmith this will give you a target OG of 1.047 / FG of 1.008 for 5.1% ABV, with the bitterness increased from 35 to 42 IBUs. Simple sugars is 18.5% of the recipe which isn't over the top.

If you go ahead with your original suggestion that would be around 44% simple sugars - in my view this is too high, you might well be disappointed in how it tastes.

Keep the fermentation temperatures around 18-20c for best results (ignore the instructions that say 21-27c).

+1 to this. By keeping the recipe basically the same but with less water, you're keeping the same character to the beer, but more concentrated. I like the 15 - 20% max sugar also. You could use some yeast nutrient since you'll be using sugar - I think of it as insurance.

 

[ThatITGuy]

+1 to this. By keeping the recipe basically the same but with less water, you're keeping the same character to the beer, but more concentrated. I like the 15 - 20% max sugar also. You could use some yeast nutrient since you'll be using sugar - I think of it as insurance.

Yes, I forgot to add that to the recipe. I have it, might as well use it!Thanks for the reminder.