I cook my cider for three days. Someone Please Stop Me

[LactoBasilisk]

Hi, brewers. I've drafted and re-drafted this post many, many times before I realized it had exactly one actual talking point. Maybe I'm just too stubborn, maybe it's my cussedness, but I loathe the idea of using pre-made juice for fermentation. I get that on paper, depending on preservatives et al, it isn't inherently bad. But I learned (non-fermented) cider a different way, and it involves boiling/slow cooking the apples, sugars, and spices for a long time. Sometimes a *very* long time. When it came time to make my first hard cider, I used my method detailed below to make it, and it turned out so great that I'm having a very hard time considering doing it any other way, but you guys have a lot more experience than I do so I'd appreciate your perspectives and advice before I make another batch.
For my last cider (informationally, it was bittered with 1oz Polaris and dry hopped with 1oz African Queen- delicious, but counterintuitive to the common wisdom of aging ciders), I chopped up the cored apples, 12 lbs in total, and boiled them in 6 gallons water for 3 hours, then- get this- let them simmer for 66 hours more. Yes, this was a three day brew, and that's the biggest con I can see in this process. I also had to top up the water three times due to significant evaporation. After removing the apples, cinnamon sticks, cloves, and allspice (I strained them out manually last time, but I've since gotten a biab setup I could utilize), I added 1.5 lbs honey, 1.5 lbs molasses, 4 lbs dark brown sugar, and 2 lbs turbinado cane sugar, dissolved them over low heat, then brought it to a boil for the bittering hops (30 min). Chilled, racked, sprinkled S-04 on top, this big boy debuted at 12% ABV with an FG of 0.97, an incredible apple flavor complemented by the dry hopping, and rounded out by the surprisingly strong bitterness. Oh, and I used pectic enzyme to drop the apple debris left out of suspension.

But this brew isn't what I came to talk about, per se. The talking point is simply the incredibly long simmer. I've made cider for the family and friends every year for a long while now, and imho it's undeniable how the flavor develops and improves with a cook time of several days (I am known to have a pot stocked with hot cider throughout the holiday season, adding to it as it depletes), but having only ever fermented one batch, I'm certain there are angles to this I'm not seeing. I admit I haven't fully scoured this forum yet, but I've only seen recipes calling for store bought juice, and it just doesn't sit right with me. I want to believe, since it seems significantly easier, but it seems like making the extract version of a full grain beer. Am I completely out of touch here? I'd love some cider experts to set me straight. Thank you for your time.

Ps making cider this way also gives you amazing applesauce, and for that, you'll want to peel the apples beforehand and keep the spices in a separate bag so as to simply that step.

 

[zadamxtr]

If that method gives you the flavour you want, then stick with it! You could try using the apple juice approach just so you can compare results for yourself.

Sounds like you extract the apple flavour by boiling the apples in water rather than juicing them, then adding some extra spices for flavour. Sounds really nice, but also sounds like you would probably end up with something that tastes quite different to a regular cider made from juice. That may not be a bad thing of course, different isn't necessarily worse!

 

[bruce_the_loon]

You can try an experiment to see if it is the long boil that has the flavour effect or just sitting time. Next time you make cider, pull a small sample every few hours and once the long boil is done, see how just sitting has affected the flavour. You might also find that you only need 24 hours or something like that. Certainly the spices should be exhausted within a few hours.

 

[zadamxtr]

If you chopped the apples a lot smaller maybe they would release the flavours faster?

 

[Maylar]

If you like the taste of cooked apples, and don't mind pectin haze then whatever. But that's not how the rest of the world makes cider.

 

[Bobby_M]

I admit I haven't fully scoured this forum yet, but I've only seen recipes calling for store bought juice, and it just doesn't sit right with me. I want to believe, since it seems significantly easier, but it seems like making the extract version of a full grain beer. Am I completely out of touch here? I'd love some cider experts to set me straight. Thank you for your time.

I would say it is EXTREMELY rare for anyone to cook apples or juice to make hard cider. Generally adding any heat to fruit is the first step in casting off delicate aromatics and setting pectins that will never clear.

The analogy between fermenting store bought juice and brewing extract beer is completely flawed. Apples are already fermentable sugar, the crushing and pressing process simply separates the natural fructose from the fibers of the fruit. It's ready to ferment as is. Making wort from malted grains is a chemical process that turns starch into mostly Maltose sugar. Grain is not fermentable as is.

As was mentioned, what you do to make your version of hard cider may be the way you like it. You're not breaking any laws, but it is definitely way outside the norm.

Also, there isn't really a dichotomy between fermenting store bought juice and cooking it out of apples.

1. Buy cider that was freshly pressed out of apples (a harvest time option).
2. Grind and Press apples yourself (store bought apples or grow your own).
3. Buy frozen concentrate, dilute and ferment.
4. Buy pasteurized apple juice from the store.

None of those options require or necessarily benefit from being boiled.

 

[AzOr]

Are you adding water as you cook the apples? It sounds like you’re just concentrating your must.
What you’re doing sounds good, it’s just not cider. More of an apple wine.

I would gladly drink your wine from a flask when I’m snowboarding.

 

[Kees]

This is the ultimate slow food cider! I like the idea of preserving apple flavour in the final product.

 

[bernardsmith]

Except the flavor that you are "preserving" is cooked apples and not the bright flavor of fresh pressed juice. Brewers need heat to help the enzymes break down the complex sugars in grain into more simple sugars the yeast can ferment. Wine makers typically use heat to help clean their equipment. And sure if you prefer the flavor of slow stewed apples , more power to ya. But cider and apple wines are not typically cooked. Never any need.

 

[Maylar]

To that end, "cooked apples" is a flaw that you'd be gigged for if you enter a cider comp.