Coopers European Lager in the fermentor

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Wavery

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I've had the Coopers European Lager in the fermentor for 2 weeks. The directions says 6-7 days. Does it hurt a lager if I leave it in fermentation too long?

I plan to bottle it tomorrow, I am just curious how it might effect the beer if it is in fermentation too long.

The other question that I have is, can I use the yeast in the bottom of the fermentor to start another brew?

Thanks,
Wayne
 

spark_plug

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2 weeks is nothing, I've left my lagers on the yeast cake for 3 months without any issues. However when I secondary my lagers I leave them for another few months usually. Best lagers are the ones that you do just that, lager it for extended amounts of time. I also however do diacytel rests on all my lagers whether its required or not. Also lots of people do put another beer right back in on top of the yeast cake as long it wasn't a high abv beer should be good. Myself personally I just wash any yeast I plan on reusing and making starters.
 
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Wavery

Wavery

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2 weeks is nothing, I've left my lagers on the yeast cake for 3 months without any issues. However when I secondary my lagers I leave them for another few months usually. Best lagers are the ones that you do just that, lager it for extended amounts of time. I also however do diacytel rests on all my lagers whether its required or not. Also lots of people do put another beer right back in on top of the yeast cake as long it wasn't a high abv beer should be good. Myself personally I just wash any yeast I plan on reusing and making starters.
Could you please explain that. I think that's what I want to do.

Also, can I brew a stout with that yeast or should it be a lager?
 

spark_plug

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No you should use a suitable ale yeast for your stout, not that some stouts may have a lager yeast depending on style. Home brewing is all about experimentation. Washing a packet of dry yeast might not be economical due to the costs of dry, but I do wash nearly all my liquid cultures for reuse.

Good info here on how easy it is. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/
 
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Wavery

Wavery

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No you should use a suitable ale yeast for your stout, not that some stouts may have a lager yeast depending on style. Home brewing is all about experimentation. Washing a packet of dry yeast might not be economical due to the costs of dry, but I do wash nearly all my liquid cultures for reuse.

Good info here on how easy it is. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/
Thanks for that. I printed the pertinent posts and put them in a file. That's a great thread.

It also answered my question about pitching directly into my current trub after I bottle. I think I'm going to try that with a stout and see how it goes.
 
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Wavery

Wavery

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OK.......

I am getting ready to bottle this lager and I want to use the yeast cake that I will be left with to brew my next batch.........
 
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Wavery

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I just chilled and opened a bottle to get an idea of how this tastes.


It's only been a few days but it tastes great. It already has a little carbonation. I can't wait to see how it tastes in April.
 
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Wavery

Wavery

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I just got another Coopers European Lager kit (with true lager strain yeast) with the brew enhancer 2 and I'm thinking of adding some malt and maybe a little hops to this brew. I will need some help with this because I don't want to screw it up like I did the stout that I am currently fermenting (with a lager yeast :drunk:).

I have a 6lb bottle of Barley Malt Extract "Gold" from Midwest supplies (it was given to me so I thought I might try it). Would this be a good thing to add to a lager (I'm just trying to add some flavor)? Do I just add it along with the LME from the can into hot water and how much?

I was also given a 1oz packet of Hallertau Pellet Hops (AA: 4%). I have no idea if I should use these or how to use them.....

Any help would be appreciated. This time, I'll wait for some suggestions BEFORE starting my brew....:p

Thanks for your patience....... just trying to learn..:D
 

aprichman

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If you plan on adding hops and LME from a bottle (i.e. it hasn't been pasteurized) then you're going to have to boil.

In essence you are going to bring water to a boil and then add the hops and LME.

The two main variables are going to be how long you boil the hops/LME and how much water you are boiling.

Boiling the hops for a longer amount of time will increase the bitterness but decrease the flavor and aroma. Boiling with more water will also increase the impact your hops have on the beer.

Gold LME will have a slight impact on the flavor. It will mainly increase the body and alcohol content of your beer but you will notice a more "malty" presence due to the long chain sugars that don't ferment that will be left behind in your beer.

The hops will have a larger impact on flavor. If you boil for around 60 minutes they will just come across as bitter. If you boil for around 20-30 minutes you will get a lot of the Hellertau's spicy and floral characteristics in the flavor of the beer. If you boil for around 0-5 minutes you will get a lot of those characteristics in the aroma of the beer.

Many brewers do multiple additions of hops for just this reason. It is not uncommon for me to boil hops for 60 minutes, 25 minutes, and 3 minutes to impart bitter, flavor, and aroma qualities from the hops. A lot of this depends on the beer, for a style that is not hop-forward a single bittering addition for 60 minutes might be used.

Hope this helps a bit!

Cheers :mug:
 

aprichman

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Just wanted to add that if I was brewing this way here's what I would do:

Brew the Coopers kit like normal EXCEPT use ~1 gallon less water than normal.

Bring ~1.125 gallons of water to a boil. Remove from flame, add LME & hops (make sure to stir in order to dissolve all the LME) , bring back up to a boil, add more hops if desired. Remove from heat and use an ice bath in your sink to cool wort to ~70-75F. Add the ~1 gallon of wort to your Coopers fermenter (make sure to strain the hops out).

Pitch the yeast.
 
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Wavery

Wavery

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Just wanted to add that if I was brewing this way here's what I would do:

Brew the Coopers kit like normal EXCEPT use ~1 gallon less water than normal.

Bring ~1.125 gallons of water to a boil. Remove from flame, add LME & hops (make sure to stir in order to dissolve all the LME) , bring back up to a boil, add more hops if desired. Remove from heat and use an ice bath in your sink to cool wort to ~70-75F. Add the ~1 gallon of wort to your Coopers fermenter (make sure to strain the hops out).

Pitch the yeast.
Thanks for this....... I'll try it this way. I have only 1oz of hops. Should I use .5oz with the LME then .5oz after bringing back to a boil?

What happens if I don't strain out the hops? Does the residue settle? The reason that I'm asking is because I have a batch of stout in one of my fermenters and I left the hops in... :confused:

One other question...... is a 20 minute boil OK for this?
 

AndytheBeave

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Well, if you are planning on washing your yeast, all the hop sludge will need to be separated.
I sometimes get a bit of break material (including the hop sludge) into the fermenter and it really just causes more of a mess than anything else. IT just makes clean up that much more fun.
 
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Wavery

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Here is a great blog from brulosophy. He tests the debate between just flat out dumping all of the break material into the fermenter vs. filtering it out.
http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/
WOW!!!! That was great.... thanks so much for that link. I was really concerned that I may have ruined my stout by not straining the yeast. I appears that it isn't a drastic mistake after-all.

It remains to be seen how much of a clean-up issue it will be. I don't plan on using the yeast cake this time. I doubt that cleaning will be an issue in a bucket where it may be an issue in a carboy.
 
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Wavery

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Just wanted to add that if I was brewing this way here's what I would do:

Brew the Coopers kit like normal EXCEPT use ~1 gallon less water than normal.

Bring ~1.125 gallons of water to a boil. Remove from flame, add LME & hops (make sure to stir in order to dissolve all the LME) , bring back up to a boil, add more hops if desired. Remove from heat and use an ice bath in your sink to cool wort to ~70-75F. Add the ~1 gallon of wort to your Coopers fermenter (make sure to strain the hops out).

Pitch the yeast.
OK........ I followed these instructions and my OG was 1.060. Is that a problem? I only used a little over half of the 6lb bottle of Barley Malt Extract "Gold". Did I use too much??? It looks like my alcohol content may go through the roof.

I pitched it @ 78*F. I have it in a closet that is 66*F. I thought I would leave it in there for 24hrs then put the fermenter in a tub of cold water @ around 55*F for a week then add ice to bring it down to around
45*F........ how does that sound?
 

aprichman

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You're going to have a pretty strong beer (~6.5% ABV) but it shouldn't be a problem :D

Ideally you would want to pitch at less than 78F. Get that beer down to ~66F ASAP. Most of your off flavors are going to be produced in the first 48 hours after fermentation begins.

You want to start as cool as the yeast will tolerate and then bump it up after fermentation has slowed down. This will help the yeast finish everything up. After fermentation is completely finished (your gravity hasn't changed for 3 days) some people will "cold crash" their beer. This is basically getting your beer down to close to freezing which causes yeast and protein to drop out of the beer and settle to the bottom. I personally do not cold crash, but I do use irish moss which helps with clarity a bit.

So basically I would stick your beer in a "bath" of ~60F water and maybe stick a fan on it. Try to keep it around ~66F for the next 4-5 days. Keep in mind that temperature is for the fermentation vessel and not the air temperature of the room. When the beer is fermenting (especially a 6%+ beer) the vessel is probably going to be 7-10F warmer than the surrounding temperature. This will only last for a few days but those first few days are by far the most critical for temperature control.

Hope that helps :mug:
 
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Wavery

Wavery

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You're going to have a pretty strong beer (~6.5% ABV) but it shouldn't be a problem :D

Ideally you would want to pitch at less than 78F. Get that beer down to ~66F ASAP. Most of your off flavors are going to be produced in the first 48 hours after fermentation begins.

You want to start as cool as the yeast will tolerate and then bump it up after fermentation has slowed down. This will help the yeast finish everything up. After fermentation is completely finished (your gravity hasn't changed for 3 days) some people will "cold crash" their beer. This is basically getting your beer down to close to freezing which causes yeast and protein to drop out of the beer and settle to the bottom. I personally do not cold crash, but I do use irish moss which helps with clarity a bit.

So basically I would stick your beer in a "bath" of ~60F water and maybe stick a fan on it. Try to keep it around ~66F for the next 4-5 days. Keep in mind that temperature is for the fermentation vessel and not the air temperature of the room. When the beer is fermenting (especially a 6%+ beer) the vessel is probably going to be 7-10F warmer than the surrounding temperature. This will only last for a few days but those first few days are by far the most critical for temperature control.

Hope that helps :mug:
Thanks...... that helps a lot.

I just put it in a tub of cold water and put in about 2# of ice to get it down a little faster.

---------------- 2 hours later---------------
The temp strip on the side of my fermenter shows 15C (59F). I'm assuming that reflects mainly the temp of the water. All the ice is melted. Should I dump more ice in there? I left the window open and closed the heater vent in that bathroom (we don't use it anyway). The temp should get down to about 50F in that bathroom tonight.
 
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