Cooling problems

[h-bar]

For the first time, I have been cooling my fermenter in a large beverage cooler. I add frozen water bottles twice a day. This morning, I checked the temperature shortly after I added fresh bottles, and it was below 60F! I'm using ale yeast, so I'm worried what the temperature fluctuations are doing to my beer if the temperature changes drastically after adding fresh frozen bottles.

 

[KepowOb]

Are you measuring your waters temp or the beer temp? If you just added the frozen water bottles, the beer temp shouldn't drop that fast (from how I understand things). There are smarter people than me here that know a lot more about thermal dynamics, but I think with the limited contact in surface area and the actual volume of liquid, the changes shouldn't be so drastic as to kill off your yeast, or even stress it out much.

You also say it was below 60F, but what was it before you added the frozen water bottles?

I use this method myself. My previous batch, I had used Nottingham, which I'd read in several places can put off off flavours starting around 70. It also has good tolerance for low temps, so I learned that switching out two frozen bottles every 12 hours can keep my beer at around 60. If I only switch out one bottle, instead of 2, it sits at around 66, which is what I normally aim for.

Once you've done a few batches using this method, you should be able to dial it in pretty good.

That said, my next step is going to be building a fermentation chamber. As much as I feel comfortable controlling my fermentation temps right now, I'd like to be able to dial it in more, and without having to constantly monitor it.

 

[h-bar]

I am actually using Nottingham! I hope I haven't accumulated too many off flavors, since the water went up to 70 once. I'll try to keep it around 60-66. Hopefully I can get more consistent temperatures from now on.

 

[h-bar]

Eventually I want to get a chest freezer with thermostat, but I don't have the space right now.

 

[JeffD1]

I use this method too, and i'm actually surprised at how easy it is to control the temp. You do have to be careful though, it does not take too many water bottles to cool it down. One thing that helps a lot is to measure the temp of the beer itself. I have a thermocouple wire running through my blow off tube and into the beer (its sanitized of course). It does take a little while for the temp of the water to equalize with the temp of the beer. Also, just because you got your water down below 60, doesn't mean your beer went that low. For example, if you beer is was previously at 65, and you cool the outside water to 55, it will cool your beer down, but your beer will also warm the water. So equilibrium will be closer to the mid 60s, which is probably where your beer ended up.

Also, don't worry too much about getting the absolute perfect temperature. You do want to avoid large fast temperature swings (of more than a few degrees) as that is stressful to the yeast (and cooling too much can cause them to go dormant), but as long as you stay within a few degrees your fine. Also if you do have a large fast temp swing, your beer is still going to come out ok, maybe not perfect though. Its also best to start cold and warm up as fermentation gets going, and then end up at the higher end of the yeast range. The vast majority of off flavors comes from the first 72 hours after you pitch. So after 3 days don't worry about being too warm. Warmer temps are better towards the end because it encourages the yeast to completely finish.

Another thing that helps a lot is having a lot of water. The more water you have, the easier it is to keep a stable temp.

 

[ronjonacron]

Eventually I want to get a chest freezer with thermostat, but I don't have the space right now.

Space shmace, ferm chamber in the closet, swmbo loooooves this hahaha.

 

[ronjonacron]

 

[JeffD1]

@ronjonacron How did you build that? It looks relatively simple! How do you cool it?

 

[glick]

@ronjonacron How did you build that? It looks relatively simple! How do you cool it?

+1 Do tell

 

[BigFloyd]

I am actually using Nottingham! I hope I haven't accumulated too many off flavors, since the water went up to 70 once. I'll try to keep it around 60-66. Hopefully I can get more consistent temperatures from now on.

You're not going to kill your ale yeast by getting it too cold unless you freeze it enough to form ice crystals within the slurry. The cells simply go to sleep until things warm up into their comfort zone again.

Nottingham can get funky if fermented over 68*F, but is fine at cooler temps and will ferment clean at 55*F (been there, done that). I often start it around 57*F and, after 4-5 days start to slowly bring it up to finish at 66*F.

 

[tgmartin000]

Yep, it takes a little getting used to, but after a couple batches you'll get the hang of it.

 

[h-bar]

Space shmace, ferm chamber in the closet, swmbo loooooves this hahaha.

Did you build that or buy it? I must know!!

 

[ronjonacron]

I built it! And for under $100 bucks. Its basically a box build out of insulation that uses ice for the effect of cooling.to chamber down to ferm temps. Google son of fermentation chamber. There is another design that fits 2 carboys at once called the 38dd mother of fermentation chamber.

Ill see if i have more pics of it on my phone, but the designs were gratiously posted by the designer for all to use. I wish i remember the name or site so i could show due credit, im on my phone at work right now.

 

[ronjonacron]

Pics galore, here ya go!

















I have more pics, but thats the gist of it.

 

[bja]

I am actually using Nottingham! I hope I haven't accumulated too many off flavors, since the water went up to 70 once. I'll try to keep it around 60-66. Hopefully I can get more consistent temperatures from now on.

Last year I brewed 5 or 6 in a row using Nottingham. I fermented each one colder and colder until I found the temp where they gave up. It seems this yeast does great down to about 56. Below that and fermentation becomes painfully slow, but 56-57 is no problem at all.

 

[hautlle]

I built it! And for under $100 bucks. Its basically a box build out of insulation that uses ice for the effect of cooling.to chamber down to ferm temps. Google son of fermentation chamber. There is another design that fits 2 carboys at once called the 38dd mother of fermentation chamber.

Ill see if i have more pics of it on my phone, but the designs were gratiously posted by the designer for all to use. I wish i remember the name or site so i could show due credit, im on my phone at work right now.

It's Ken Schwartz's Son of Fermentaiton Chiller

http://home.roadrunner.com/~brewbeer/chiller/chiller.PDF

 

[ronjonacron]

Awesome, thanks for posting!

 

[JeffD1]

I built it! And for under $100 bucks. Its basically a box build out of insulation that uses ice for the effect of cooling.to chamber down to ferm temps. Google son of fermentation chamber. There is another design that fits 2 carboys at once called the 38dd mother of fermentation chamber.

Ill see if i have more pics of it on my phone, but the designs were gratiously posted by the designer for all to use. I wish i remember the name or site so i could show due credit, im on my phone at work right now.

Wow awesome! Thanks, I found my next DIY project.

 

[ronjonacron]

Wow awesome! Thanks, I found my next DIY project.

Fwiw, i wasnt able to find 2" anywhere, so i glued together two sheets of 1/2" and i have no problems at all maintaining ale temps. I usually ferment in the mid 60s with no problems at all. I change out ice in the morning and at night for the first 5 days or so, then only once every 24 hours.

 

[CryoEng]

Also, just because you got your water down below 60, doesn't mean your beer went that low. For example, if you beer is was previously at 65, and you cool the outside water to 55, it will cool your beer down, but your beer will also warm the water. So equilibrium will be closer to the mid 60s, which is probably where your beer ended up.

Yep.

Cheers!