Converting to 3 Kettle Advice

[micraftbeer]

Are you saying that from experience brewing on an eBIAB system or conjecture? It's important, because I've brewed on an eBIAB about as many batches as I have on a 3 vessel, albeit only about 10 batches on an eHERMS 3V so I admit I just may not be tuned in as much.

From experience. But really everything electric. When I was brewing with propane my records and process were much more variable.

I have found that eBIAB vs. 3V RIMS (I have never brewed with HERMS) that there are two things that drive my length of brew day: 1) 120V vs. 240V, and 2) My recipe. Sometimes I do a single rest + mashout. Sometimes I do 3 rests + mashout. Sometimes 60 minute boils and sometimes 90 minute boils.

Probably another variable here is sparge vs. no-sparge. Maybe the assumption is eBIAB = no-sparge, and 3V = 60 minute fly sparge. But obviously that isn't the case. I batch sparge in my All-In-One eBIAB units, and a 15-30 minute fly sparge in 3V.

I have brewed in: Mash & Boil (120V eBIAB), Brau Supply (120V eBIAB), Grainfather (120V eBIAB), Braumeister (240V eBIAB), BrewEasy (240V RIMS), BrewEasy Compact (240V eBIAB), Brew-Boss (240V eBIAB), Robobrew Gen1 (120V eBIAB), BrewZilla/Robobrew Gen4 (120V eBIAB), Anvil Foundry (120V eBIAB), Wort Hog (120V eBIAB), 3V (120V RIMS), 3V (240V RIMS).

 

[JAReeves]

I'm late to the party on this, I am sure, but I upgraded from a 10G SSBrewtech mash tun to an AIO with recirculation. I love the consistent temp and it's actually easier to clean. I could do BIAB, obviously, but I like 3V brewing as well.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Propane is definitely a time factor for me. I've never scorched a mash or boil, so I always go slow on temp changes for step mashes. Boil too, to an extent, but since i fly sparge, not a time issue, as I'm boiling by the end of that 25-30 minutes for 5g (and double for 10g). More steps in the mash take more of the time. Brewed last week and I raised the mash from 149 to 172 for the mash-out step over 18-minutes. If I have more steps, you can do the math. Sometimes I throw in a single decoction on this mash-out step, pull a thick chunk, boil it for 10-minutes and drop it back in. I also whirlpool at flame out and let it stand for 20-minutes, to clear the trub, hops, etc., before I chill it.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's all good. I listed out my brew day steps on a timeline and made some arguments for why I prefer the eBIAB process. I didn't mean to commandeer the thread as much as I already have. There's plenty of discussion to be had, but this is not really the place anymore. If there is something I can help you with, email the shop.

 

[Deric]

Looking at the pricing you provided for the kettle only and taking into account the control system and pump kit I’m not sure I’ll be that far ahead in terms of pricing vs adding a 3rd vessel to my system. I know I will have labor involved with drilling my pots and a lot of planning but if we’re comparing cost I don’t see how I’d be ahead going with your system vs what I’ve purposed.

If you have a good kettle there's no reason you can't convert that to a recirculating electric BIAB system. I saw Bobby's video before I ever realized he sold turn-key systems. I converted an old 10 gallon pot (bought almost 30 years ago when I did my first all-grain batch) using @Bobby_M 's weldless bulkheads/fittings. I also DIY'd my own controller but if I had it to do all over again I'd probably go with the Auber controller BrewHardware sells as I didn't really save much doing it myself.

I also have a 3V electric HERMS system that me and my brother brew on just as often. Yeah it takes longer but it's a good hang.

They both make great beer but the BIAB system has much better and consistent temp control and faster step mashing.

 

[Haze Crazed]

I guess I should clarify my 8hr brew day includes pre cleaning all hot side equipment and sanitizing all cold side. I try to clean hot first start strike water then sanitize cold while mashing. I don’t have a sink in my garage to clean anything so I lugging 5g pails of water from upstairs down to the garage in my split entry home. Then I’m also include full clean up and storing equipment in that brew day time. I just bought a cfc and sold my therminator which should shave off about 1-1.5hr of cleaning. I would run Pbw 20-30 min both directions, 20 min hot water both then star 20-30 min both after transferring to fermentor. I also have a homemade “chiller” that I have to dig out of the garage and set up once I get the fermentor back in the house from the garage which adds time to my “brew day” so I suppose you could shave off 2hr from my quoted 8hr time that isn’t actually brewing.

 

[Bobby_M]

Clean the stuff after brewing on it, then no need to clean again before brewing. Before upgrading anything, I'd be running hot and cold water and a drain to where you want to brew, or brew where there is already water and drain. Lugging water sounds like a nightmare. No basement?

 

[Haze Crazed]

Clean the stuff after brewing on it, then no need to clean again before brewing. Before upgrading anything, I'd be running hot and cold water and a drain to where you want to brew, or brew where there is already water and drain. Lugging water sounds like a nightmare. No basement?

I have a basement but no water hookup. I’m currently running propane so I have to brew outdoors which is my garage. I have to leave my brew gear in my garage for storage so even though I clean it all after brewing I have to clean it again the next time I brew because the dust etc that potentially made it’s way in while being stored.

 

[Haze Crazed]

Update on my 3V aspirations. I used my 15g igloo this weekend as a mash tun with my 20g Brew Bag (no false bottom) in conjunction with my 15g pot as an HLT and my 20g BK. My brew day actually went quicker contrary to popular belief. That said it could be me, I could be doing things wrong biab and as previously mentioned I have to clean everything before I brew and then again after brew.

So I ended up with an imperial stout when I wanted a regular stout. My efficiency ended up being 84% when my recipe was designed around 72% BIAB efficiency. I’m talking mash efficiencies not brew house. Anyway I’m sold on 3V but I might keep rolling with this method until I can foot the bill for the upgrade I want. See pics below.

 

[Haze Crazed]

Before anyone says it, I know I could’ve added a few pounds of grain and been in the same spot. But with this brew I wasn’t planning an imperial. I got it because it was more efficient. I like that a lot, I know grains cost far less the $1,000 that the added mash tun, false bottom, extra pump, temp control and heating element will cost me but I work in a world that all about efficiencies so I just love the idea of getting better. On top of repeatability.

*EDIT- almost $2,000

 

[bf514921]

That's awesome you found what works for you, and that is what it is all about, enjoying this great hobby.

 

[Indian_villager]

I am on your same line of thinking of not wanting to deal with a herms coil, effectively cleaning it, or dealing with the dead volume. The solution I ended up with was an SS Brewtech mash tun with an upgraded heater. I have documented my upgrade path in the thread linked below. It holds mash temps dead on and can even effectively raise mash temps. I bought my mash tun used for 1/2 MSRP, you can usually find them here in the classifieds section or on FB Marketplace.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/ss-brewtech-infussion-mash-tun-custom-heater.730622/

 

[mac_1103]

I know grains cost far less the $1,000 that the added mash tun, false bottom, extra pump, temp control and heating element will cost me but I work in a world that all about efficiencies so I just love the idea of getting better

But didn't you just prove that you don't need to spend the money to get that extra efficiency?

 

[Deadalus]

If you built/bought yourself a table with wheels it would greatly help you in your overall brew day as far as time. Keeping in mind that you might convert from gas to electric at some point would be a good consideration. Fabricated gas stands tend to be more skeleton like but a stainless steel table might be an option. Most stainless tables are a bit tall for brewing but you can sometimes cut the legs down. On mine, I was able to cut the tops of the legs so that the wheel mounts inside the legs weren't cut off. I went a little too wide on mine at 72", 60" would have worked just fine, minimum 48" for 3 keggles. Depth of mine is 24" a minimum of 18" could work. My panel is on an arm so you'd want to consider future controller mounting as well. And I mention stainless vs. wood because you have burners and spills happen all the time. Not saying one can't be done in wood but stainess is easier to keep clean.

I often see people including setup time in their brew day estimates and I get that not everyone has a garage but you do! It's not too much of a footprint if you utilize the space underneath plus with wheels you can move it where you want to store it quick and easy.