control panel question

[Big-D]

i posted this similar question a while back, but never got around to making that one. this is a much simpler version. i was hoping someone would be cool and help me wire it. I have included what i have so far. Main goal here is that i want to be able to throw the switch in the middle to position (I) and engage the PID across the SSR, or throw the switch to (II) and use the SSVR with rheostat controller. Either way i would need to make sure that the pump was on if there was power to the Heater. PID and fan would stay on at all times if the key switch was on, regardless of the I/II switch in the middle.

I cant figure how to get the pump wired in so that 1) its always on when the heating element is on and 2) is not affected by the PID/Rheostat and gets full 120v when on.

edit:
I moved the pump power leads to the output of the SSR's. This will get the required 120v to run the pump, but the pump will still pulse when the switch is in (I) position across the PID (not desired). Also when the switch is in position (II) the voltage to the pump will be variable (also not desired).

 

[audiophool]

Before you get to the pump question there are several problems with the circuit as you have drawn it. Part of my confusion might have to do with he rheostat control as I have not used a setup like that. It would help if you clarify:

1. What type of switch is being used (SPDT, DPDT, etc)? You talk about a middle position which implies that the switch has at least 3 positions, but only indicate 2 positions on the diagram.

2. What type of PID control? If you are using it to control an AC pump, it would be a relay type that will pass line voltage to the device to be controlled, but this is not appropriate to be used with SSRs. If it is a PID for SSRs, the output will be low voltage DC in the 3-25 volt range and will not power a 120V AC pump. I have never considered whether the output of this type of PID would pass enough current to power a low voltage DC pump.

3. The circuit to the right hand SSR basically has both poles of the control terminals wired to the positive output of the PID, so no voltage/current will go through the control terminals. I am partly guessing about this because it is not clear what type of switch is being used and how both wires in the II position are wired to the switch.

 

[Big-D]

Before you get to the pump question there are several problems with the circuit as you have drawn it. Part of my confusion might have to do with he rheostat control as I have not used a setup like that. It would help if you clarify:

1. What type of switch is being used (SPDT, DPDT, etc)? You talk about a middle position which implies that the switch has at least 3 positions, but only indicate 2 positions on the diagram.

2. What type of PID control? If you are using it to control an AC pump, it would be a relay type that will pass line voltage to the device to be controlled, but this is not appropriate to be used with SSRs. If it is a PID for SSRs, the output will be low voltage DC in the 3-25 volt range and will not power a 120V AC pump. I have never considered whether the output of this type of PID would pass enough current to power a low voltage DC pump.

3. The circuit to the right hand SSR basically has both poles of the control terminals wired to the positive output of the PID, so no voltage/current will go through the control terminals. I am partly guessing about this because it is not clear what type of switch is being used and how both wires in the II position are wired to the switch.

The switch is an on-off-on so i can engage two circuits with an off state in the middle. The PID an SYL-2362 from Auber. the SSVR circuit comes from this page. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=332

i see what you mean about the pump power, i had not considered that. the PID is to control the temperature across the SSR, not to pulse the pump, so this configuration is definately wrong. i need the PID to pulse the SSR, and the pump to be on regardless of whether or not the SSR/SSVR is engaged.

Thanks for your input.

edit: I updated the schematic in the SSVR to represent the internals correctly.

 

[Big-D]

updated original post

 

[stlbeer]

PM'd you.

 

[stlbeer]

Regarding your pump, you want the SSR to only be ON when the PUMP is running. This is easy. You need a DPDT switch - this is used for the pump. On half of the switch run the HOT for the PUMP. On the other half of the switch you run the control circuit for the SSR. Provided the SSR is functioning normally (you're buying quality SSR's, right?) the SSR will only fire when following are true:
1)PID is calling for HEAT and PUMP switch is ON OR
2)SSVR (rheostat) is calling for HEAT and PUMP switch is on.

 

[Big-D]

maybe if i upload my control panel, the problem will be more evident. i do not want to have several switches to enable pump, pid, and rheostat. it should be a very easy operation. switch in up position turns on the pid and pump. the switch in the down position bypasses the pid and enables the dial, also with the pump. The switch in the middle position should disable both pid and rheostat, but power should be left to the pid to read the temperature.The key switch obviously disables all power.

 

[Big-D]

Regarding your pump, you want the SSR to only be ON when the PUMP is running. This is easy. You need a DPDT switch - this is used for the pump. On half of the switch run the HOT for the PUMP. On the other half of the switch you run the control circuit for the SSR. Provided the SSR is functioning normally (you're buying quality SSR's, right?) the SSR will only fire when following are true:
1)PID is calling for HEAT and PUMP switch is ON OR
2)SSVR (rheostat) is calling for HEAT and PUMP switch is on.

My understanding of a DPDT switch is you always have one or the other enabled. I can supply the 120 to run the pump on one side, but when the other side engages doesn't it turn off the pump? I could jumper across i guess, but that still doesn't acount for an "Off" state.. you will always have something heating. Is there such thing as a DPTT ON-OFF-ON switch like below?

 

[Big-D]

i found out that the above switch is a thing after all. using that switch i modified the above original schematic to this one. still need a little work.. not sure how to energize the SSVR for example. Thanks for the help those of you PM'ing me!