Control panel pricing/e-brewery help

[thirstyutahn]

I'm at the stage in my brewing where it's time to upgrade from the turkey fryer, aluminum pot, cooler mashtun and 5 gallon batch limit. I want precise stepable mash temps, more automated brew days and a more permanent setup. I've pretty much convinced myself on going electric at this point.

After far too much research and drool inducing pics of some of your e-breweries I think I've determined what I want to build to suit my brewing. I keep going back to Kals e-brewery. His control panel specifically. Every time I consider building something simpler I think about down the road and knowing myself I can certainly see me wanting to upgrade.

Over a year or two I've gathered a bunch of stuff like pumps, silicone tubing, camlocks, ball valves and kegs(all things I could use for either gas or electric).

Now considering I have the ability to build everything myself do any of you have a cost estimate for a control panel like Kals? Is it cheaper to buy everything individually? I've seen his kit price but that seems fairly high. Basically I'm looking for ballpark prices if I do everything myself and the best place to buy everything. I know a bunch of you have built clones or something very similar so any tips and prices would be very helpful.

Thanks

 

[hustlebird]

Honestly his prices aren't that ourageous, if you want an alternative, there is ebrewsupply.com, which I've wanted to make a purchase from for a while now, but just can't muster the funds to do it. Both will run you close to that price though, and if you part things out individually it will probably cost you almost exactly the same, since these guys get some margin back on parts they buy in bulk.

The worst part about buying yourself is there isn't a one stop shop for everything, unless you want to pay a premium on a lot of things. Some resources I've seen mentioned here alot would be Grainger, McMasters, and AutomationDirect. They have a lot of the little odds and ends you need. You'd also probably want to go with AuberIns for their PIDS, although they've been getting a lot of flack lately for some shoddy customer service thats arisen. YMMV. If you go BCS, which I know ebrewsupply really focus' on, I believe thats owned by Derrin at BrewersHardware, so you could go there for that, or source it through ebrewsupply.

Lots of options really, no right/wrong way to do it. When I get the cash I'll probably go with ebrewsupply + auberIns for a PID control panel. But mine will differ from Kals because I want to use RIMS. The RIMS setups from Brewers Hardware seem really nice to me.

Again, lots of options. Hope this helps.

 

[highland_brewer]

I agree with hustlebird, there is no one stop shop for everything. My E-herms consists of parts and pieces from here there and everywhere. I can tell you do your research and shop around. You can be thrifty in some areas but other don't cut corners, especially where electrical safety is involved. One source I can thell you for your HERMS coil is Stainlessbrewing.com the coil I got, rolled to my spec with two 90 degree bends was under $100 bucks that is a steal IMO.

Good luck with everything, and ask away.

To answer your question vaguely, I would say plan on a budget of at least $1500ish if you go Herms, and that number could be much less depending on what you already have in your posession.

 

[RichBenn]

I posted on another thread about cost, but you can save a bit by going ebay, Amazon, Home Depot, etc., substituting equivalents and looking for deals and low or no-cost shipping(often overlooked). Changing the design to accomodate price is another strategy.

But you will be trading off time for money. A lot of time. Chinese stuff I ordered from ebay shipped from China, and it took up to a month. I spent way too much time reading threads on builds, manuals for Chinese PIDs, researching tools needed, etc.

If I wasn't retired I would not have gone that route. (Well, maybe, because I am an engineer and can never leave well enough alone, LOL).

Good luck on your build, whatever you decide!

Rich

 

[thirstyutahn]

So buying all the parts separately doesn't necessarily sound like a great option unless I have a ton of time on my hands...which I definitely don't.

Thanks for the tip on the HERMS coil from stainless brewing I will almost definitely go that route. I've made enough copper immersion chillers to be able to understand what a pain stainless could be. In that instance I think I'll leave it to someone with the tools and experience.

I'm really looking forward to getting going with this.

Anyone who may have gone the Kal route I'd love to hear your opinion on how you like your setup and if you'd change anything about it. I'm always up for suggestions

 

[theknub]

kals system is actually pretty reasonably priced. if you dont want to do the wiring have doubts etc, his is a good way to go.

i did build my own and i think the price came to about $900. but that doesn't include tools, punches, etc that i had to buy (or maybe just wanted) to complete the build. mind you, i used a toolbox , no volt / amp meter etc.

 

[Dean Palmer]

Kai's kit prices are quite reasonable for what you get. It's all the little details and the 150 or so trips to the store for small parts, and the hours on the internet trying to figure out what you need and if something you found will even fit. Kai's site doesn't typically specify part numbers, so there is a lot of uncertainty when buying your stuff as I found out.

I'm currently building a panel and don't want to add up all the little costs I've incurred for not only having to buy multiples to have the right parts on hand but having to guess at what might work or fit. A few small mistakes and the savings go out the window when trying to get parts from all different places. I bought most of the components from Auber and they arrived like the next day with no issues.

If I were not making something a bit different for my brewery I would have simply bought his kit.

That said, I've built a 50a box to be able to run 2 of the three elements and I'm going to finish wiring it this weekend

 

[movet22]

I have been singing the praises of ebrewsupply for a while now. The customer service is excellent, the communication is excellent and the product is excellent. I would recommend them a thousand times over.

Just a little background on my purchase, I went with a pre-assembled 30a 2 PID and 2 element set up, I found his prices to be unbeatable for all the work that was done on it (I don't trust myself to wire anything being plugged into a dryer outlet)

 

[mrshaund]

I was going to order a DIY kit from there dont see any prebuilt pid kits?

 

[MX1]

I was going to order a DIY kit from there dont see any prebuilt pid kits?

Right now he does not have prebuilt PID controllers. I plane on buying the DIY 30amp 2 PID kit from him, and everything else PIDs, heatsink, enlclosure, RTDs from Auber.

PID SYL-2352 Auber Inst 2 45.50 91.00
Lg Enclosure Auber Inst 1 69.97 69.97
Ex Mount Heat Sink Auber Inst 1 48.00 48.00
RTD 2.5 Inch /1/2 NPT Deluxe Auber Inst 2 44.35 88.70
L6-30 FO Amazon 2 36.00 72.00
L5-15 FO EbrewSupply 2 22.00 44.00
L14-30 FI Amazon 1 32.00 32.00
DIY Kit 2 PID EbrewSupply 1 180.00 180.00

Kinda where I am at right now.


Tim

 

[sTiNkFiZzle]

Electric Brewing Supply was awesome for me. I used my own enclosure and used one of their kits for parts.

 

[movet22]

I was going to order a DIY kit from there dont see any prebuilt pid kits?

My understanding wad that my panel was the 'pilot' for the future offering of that style. I assume that they will be available soon, but just email him with any questions, he is very responsive.

 

[MX1]

You can hit him up on Facebook as well, i get lotrs of questions answered by him that way

 

[MadGus]

I'm brewing batch #3 on my Kal clone tomorrow (15 gallons of an apricot IIPA). Ended up going with 25 gallon kettles, instead of blichmanns. Built the CP myself, with lots of ebay, amazon and ebrewsupply. Hit me up with questions, and post a LOT when you get started. HBT is an awesome resource.

Less than a year ago, I was in EXACTLY the same spot as you are now. My $0.02 is to build the CP yourself.

 

[thirstyutahn]

Gus considering you built a clone did you save much money buying the cp stuff from a combo of places? If you had to do it again would you have bought Kals kit or would you still have done it the way you did?

 

[TwoDogBrew]

I spent a couple months flip flopping, investigating, pricing. Came down to simplicity and went with Kal's Back to Back 50amp kit.. Quality and reliability has been there for 6 full 10gal brews so far.

Check out the build link at footer

 

[MX1]

Gus considering you built a clone did you save much money buying the cp stuff from a combo of places? If you had to do it again would you have bought Kals kit or would you still have done it the way you did?

LINKY

Look here for a way to save some money on plugs and connectors.
I am leaning toward this for my cables for the elements.

Tim

 

[theknub]

LINKY

Look here for a way to save some money on plugs and connectors.
I am leaning toward this for my cables for the elements.

Tim

MX, this is what I used for CP to kettle. Seems fantastic so far. I was going to use for main in but since I'd have to drill out quite a bit of my main power, I went with a locking plug.

 

[MX1]

I have to have a contractor come and run the 30a service so when he does, he is making me a 25 foot powercord with the 4 prong locking stuff thing...

so I too will use that for the power supply

 

[theknub]

seems like a good plan there.

 

[MadGus]

I would absolutely build again. $900 for a 50A setup. Learned a TON, thanks to folks on HBT. If you're handy with a multimeter, and have the patience to troubleshoot what will undoubtedly be one or two "head scratchers," you should source and build it yourself.

36 gallons over 3 batches on my rig, and loving it!

 

[Garyr2973]

Finishing up my clone now and I have to say that just buying the kit is probably the way to go. I thought in the beginning I'd save a ton of money parting my own out but it just doesn't happen. Plus the time savings trying to find everything at a reasonable price is killer. I even ended up buying the heatsink from Kal because there I couldn't find a low profile one that was anywhere in the ballpark as far as price. As for everyone saying the Korean/Chinese parts took a month to receive, I didn't see that. I received all my parts from them within a week BUT even buying the amp/volt meter from the same MFG got me two different looking meters.

 

[thirstyutahn]

Thanks guys this is all really helpful stuff.

 

[Donal]

anyone ever look into highgravitybrew.com? the panel isn't as extravagant as kal's, but seems to get the job done. I'd like to move on from 5g BIAB on the turkey frier to a 3v system indoors and getting the whole setup, predrilled, so I don't need to buy all the tools to do it is cool. and relatively cheap considering I'd rather spend my time brewing with the rig as opposed to building it...

 

[MX1]

The High Gravity 2 PID is still on my radar, but I like some of the ideas, tht I have come up with for a home built.

Tim

 

[thirstyutahn]

Just a quick update.

I now have almost all of my weldless bulkhead stuff. I just need to order a herms coil. What diameter would you recommend for a keggle? 12 in?

I think I'm going to start building some elements and temp probes too. Ill probably save the control panel for last.

Another question I have has to do with my house power. I have the old 3 prong style 240 outlets and an ancient main panel. What's the best way to go about getting safe power to my brewery?

EDIT: I should mention I actually have a 240 outlet in my basement very near where I want to brew that I use occasionally for my air compressor. I'm pretty sure it's on a 30amp breaker and the plug is a 3 prong.

 

[thirstyutahn]

Oh and Gary your control panel looks great!