confused over german HB advice vs american HB techniques

[kh54s10]

This is where I found the clone for Augustiner which calls for separating the husk/Spelts from the grain before mashing.


http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&tid=22797

I can't read the German but in a quick internet search I find separating the Chaff from grains. That would be a process done before the grain is malted. So if it is not a procedure in working with malted grains, this has already been done before you buy the grains used in homebrewing.

If it is something to do with malted grain I don't know how you could possibly remove the husks from the flour or that you would even want to. If you were able to do it there is no way you could drain the mash. It would become a great big dough ball, or if there was enough water to keep the mash loose it would transfer all the flour into the boil kettle. The husks from the malt are used as a filter to keep all the flour particles out of the boil kettle.

Again, There are a lot of advanced techniques. If you start out too complex for your first few brews you are going to be disappointed in the results.

 

[Braumeise]

I can't read the German but in a quick internet search I find separating the Chaff from grains. That would be a process done before the grain is malted. So if it is not a procedure in working with malted grains, this has already been done before you buy the grains used in homebrewing.

If it is something to do with malted grain I don't know how you could possibly remove the husks from the flour or that you would even want to. If you were able to do it there is no way you could drain the mash. It would become a great big dough ball, or if there was enough water to keep the mash loose it would transfer all the flour into the boil kettle. The husks from the malt are used as a filter to keep all the flour particles out of the boil kettle.

Again, There are a lot of advanced techniques. If you start out too complex for your first few brews you are going to be disappointed in the results.

Bummer! That is sort of what I thought trying to make logical sense of WHEN could this possibly be done and when is it done (in flour production i.e.)

Okay. I'll stop thinking about all of this for today and return to my shopping list

 

[jwelch1103]

I respectfully submit the following, including these three bits of advice:
1-Start with a kit!
2-Start with a kit!!
3-Start with a kit!!!

A metaphor: When we learn to walk all of us started as an infant worming and rolling around initially, followed by learning how to crawl. Around this time tenuous standing up starts followed by toddling around which as experience builds becomes true walking and then running ability development is right behind that.

Brewing, on some levels, is like this. Like learning to walk and run there are many things that can go wrong in each step of the brewing process!

Starting with a kit merely skips over a few steps in the process. But don't worry, there are still lots of things that you can do incorrectly! With a kit you still have to do most of the work that is required to make beer. You only basically skip over recipe formulation, grinding of the grain, and mashing/sparging.

You still have to pay attention to sanitation, still get to use your brew kettle, still get to cool your wort, still get to pitch the yeast, still get to tend to the fermentation as needed, still get to bottle and/or keg, and still get to drink it!

Starting with a kit lets you get that "back half" of the brewing process down before introducing the "front half" of it.

Prost!

 

[Newsman]

Bummer! That is sort of what I thought trying to make logical sense of WHEN could this possibly be done and when is it done (in flour production i.e.)

Okay. I'll stop thinking about all of this for today and return to my shopping list

If you're REALLY interested in adding some sort of chaff, you can always add rice hulls to your grain bill. A lot of brewers do that to help prevent stuck sparges. I've never done it, but I am not a very advanced brewer, and I rarely brew beer, although I love beer, it just takes more time than I have available. I mainly brew hard ciders, myself.

 

[kh54s10]

If you're REALLY interested in adding some sort of chaff, you can always add rice hulls to your grain bill. A lot of brewers do that to help prevent stuck sparges. I've never done it, but I am not a very advanced brewer, and I rarely brew beer, although I love beer, it just takes more time than I have available. I mainly brew hard ciders, myself.

His question was not about adding chaff, but reference an article in German that talked about removing the husks before mashing. I cannot read German so I can't look at it to see at what point in the process or even how or why they are removing husks.

 

[Clonefan94]

I respectfully submit the following, including these three bits of advice:
1-Start with a kit!
2-Start with a kit!!
3-Start with a kit!!!

A metaphor: When we learn to walk all of us started as an infant worming and rolling around initially, followed by learning how to crawl. Around this time tenuous standing up starts followed by toddling around which as experience builds becomes true walking and then running ability development is right behind that.

Brewing, on some levels, is like this. Like learning to walk and run there are many things that can go wrong in each step of the brewing process!

Starting with a kit merely skips over a few steps in the process. But don't worry, there are still lots of things that you can do incorrectly! With a kit you still have to do most of the work that is required to make beer. You only basically skip over recipe formulation, grinding of the grain, and mashing/sparging.

You still have to pay attention to sanitation, still get to use your brew kettle, still get to cool your wort, still get to pitch the yeast, still get to tend to the fermentation as needed, still get to bottle and/or keg, and still get to drink it!

Starting with a kit lets you get that "back half" of the brewing process down before introducing the "front half" of it.

Prost!

Quoted for emphasis, because I was about to post this same thing. Kits are far more involved than buying a cake mix, at least in my opinion. If nothing else, it gives you a clean slate to start on for fermentation. If something does go wrong and you are trying to figure out, "Why does my beer taste bad" This at least should give you a good starting ground to make sure you can pinpoint some mistakes, before you add too much to the process. I think too many beginners underestimate the power of good fermentation, enough yeast, good temps, etc. Usually, when I've tasted a "Bad" beer, it's because the fermentation was off, not because they added a grain I'm not a fan of.

 

[lhommedieu]

The following picture shows what a proper grain crush should look like. If you google "noonan grain crush homebrewtalk" there's a thread that discusses percentages of husk, crushed grain, flour, etc. Some of the pictures won't load but you'll get the grist of the thread. Sorry.

I like the JSP Malt Mill because one model allows you to adjust one side and you get a varied level of crush.

You may want to try a kit, at least one time, because it allows you to concentrate on two of the salient features of brewing that often bedevil the beginning brewer: sanitation and fermentation temperature control. Once you get these down, and it will only be once, you can move on to all-grain brewing. Or just dive in; it's fun either way.

 

[BowAholic]

Interesting thread...as a retired shop teacher my best advice would be to go help someone brew as soon as possible. You will realize that most of the worry is for nothing, and that it is much easier than expected. You will also get a chance to taste someone's homebrew while you're at it...just don't taste too much until the fermentor is happily put to bed...
Enjoy!

 

[kh54s10]

Kit or recipe, it doesn't matter. What does matter is not getting involved in complex procedures. Get a simple method down and learn it then expand from there. Many people start with all grain and not a kit. But the successful ones take a tried and true recipe and use a simple brewing method and stick to that until they get the procedures down.

After you get comfortable with simple recipes and procedures you can take more advanced steps, like step infusion mashes or decoction mashes. Neither of which I would recommend for a beginner. Lagers or very high gravity brews I would also recommend against.

Another way beginners mess up is to try to alter a kit or recipe without knowledge of what effects their alterations will have on the end product.

Keep it simple to start off.

 

[Homercidal]

True... that is why I am not yet brewing but still reading

...and why my first brew will be white ale!
and why I will probably take many more month before I dare touching malt and hops...

I applaud you in your pursuit for perfection. I highly recommend you start with All Grain brewing using a step mash process and begin with lagers from the start.

This is what you want to drink, and this is what you should be brewing.

There is a difference between most homebrewers and you. You have a very narrow end result planned. Most homebrewers love the variety you can get by brewing your own, from pale to dark ales, german lagers, Belgian funk, etc.

Not you. You want a particular beer so don't bother messing with those other techniques! There is no reason an intelligent person can't start brewing lagers right from the start if they are willing to read up on it, get the right equipment, and be patient.

I believe what you want to do is a step mash or decoction mash for your beer. This can be done with BIAB, which is an easy and inexpensive way to brew All Grain. A cooler mash tun doesn't make this easy, but if you do Decoction, then you will pulling a portion of the mash out of the cooler and boiling it and putting it back in. This is how the temperature gets higher. How much you pull out and boil determines how much hotter the mash is going to be.

I have no idea what you mean by separating the spelt etc. That is not something I'm familiar with, but I admit there is probably a LOT about German lager brewing methods that I don't know about.

One thing I do know. If you want to brew German Lagers, you will need a way to control the temperature. I recommend a small chest freezer and a temp controller like an STC-1000 to maintain primary temps (50F) and lagering temps (around 32F). I don't think you will be happy unless you can maintain the proper lager temps.

Lastly, I highly recommend you check out Kai's website:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com

Kai is a very detailed and precise brewer who's done lots of experimenting in the past. He is the epitome of German Engineer as fast as I can tell. I don't know how much homebrewing experimenting he's done lately (he's got other hobbies too) but you may be interested in what he's done so far. I know I've seen a video or two on his techniques.

Keeping aiming for your goals. I know you have the attention to detail that lager brewing requires.

 

[cilestiok]

I applaud you in your pursuit for perfection. I highly recommend you start with All Grain brewing using a step mash process and begin with lagers from the start.



This is what you want to drink, and this is what you should be brewing.



There is a difference between most homebrewers and you. You have a very narrow end result planned. Most homebrewers love the variety you can get by brewing your own, from pale to dark ales, german lagers, Belgian funk, etc.



Not you. You want a particular beer so don't bother messing with those other techniques! There is no reason an intelligent person can't start brewing lagers right from the start if they are willing to read up on it, get the right equipment, and be patient.



I believe what you want to do is a step mash or decoction mash for your beer. This can be done with BIAB, which is an easy and inexpensive way to brew All Grain. A cooler mash tun doesn't make this easy, but if you do Decoction, then you will pulling a portion of the mash out of the cooler and boiling it and putting it back in. This is how the temperature gets higher. How much you pull out and boil determines how much hotter the mash is going to be.



I have no idea what you mean by separating the spelt etc. That is not something I'm familiar with, but I admit there is probably a LOT about German lager brewing methods that I don't know about.



One thing I do know. If you want to brew German Lagers, you will need a way to control the temperature. I recommend a small chest freezer and a temp controller like an STC-1000 to maintain primary temps (50F) and lagering temps (around 32F). I don't think you will be happy unless you can maintain the proper lager temps.



Lastly, I highly recommend you check out Kai's website:



http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com



Kai is a very detailed and precise brewer who's done lots of experimenting in the past. He is the epitome of German Engineer as fast as I can tell. I don't know how much homebrewing experimenting he's done lately (he's got other hobbies too) but you may be interested in what he's done so far. I know I've seen a video or two on his techniques.



Keeping aiming for your goals. I know you have the attention to detail that lager brewing requires.

Agreed 110%.

With tedious research, good attention to detail and determination anything is possible.

Most mistakes in home brewing I find are from differences in technique from one beer recipe to the next. If your focus is to make one recipe perfectly and only one recipe then I don't think there's much to worry about.

And this is from a fellow Bucks county brewer and fan of Munich lagers.

Go to keystone homebrew supply and walk about and get a feel for your new home. You'll end up spending a lot of time there once you get brewing.

 

[kh54s10]

I agree with the previous too posts if and only if the research is done and conflicting procedures are understood.

When I read the original post I saw a lot of confusion mixing procedures from ales and lagers, simple mashing techniques and step mashing etc. And all the stuff about removing the husks from the grain before mashing

It seemed to me that there was not a good understanding of the differences.

Thus my recommendation to start simple.....

 

[Braumeise]

His question was not about adding chaff, but reference an article in German that talked about removing the husks before mashing. I cannot read German so I can't look at it to see at what point in the process or even how or why they are removing husks.

her (!) not his Question

so in this german recipe it says:

Schroten:
Die Spelzen werden nach dem 1. Mahlgang so gut wie möglich abgetrennt(Plansichter Siebsatz 1. Sieb) und der verbliebene Rest wird erneut geschrotet.

You remove the spelt/Husk after the first round of crushing and you do this by using a "Plansichter Siebsatz", than you ground the grains again.

From the recipe quoted it says you do that with your malted grain before you mash it.
The reason to do it would be eliminating the tannins in the spelts/husk and therefore the flavor of your beer will be milder. Adding a portion of the extract you made from them later, to add just a hint of these flavors is obv. characteristical for Munich Brews.

keeping in mind that there is nothing in a Helles that will "mask" flavors and especially that the Augustiner is extremely mild yet very flavorful it makes a lot of sense to me...

although I will postpone trying this to a much later stage in my experiment

 

[Braumeise]

I agree with the previous too posts if and only if the research is done and conflicting procedures are understood.

When I read the original post I saw a lot of confusion mixing procedures from ales and lagers, simple mashing techniques and step mashing etc. And all the stuff about removing the husks from the grain before mashing

It seemed to me that there was not a good understanding of the differences.

Thus my recommendation to start simple.....

that might be a language issue...

and that was why I started to look up stuff in german and you are probably right about the general understanding...

guess I'll have to read everything I have read in German to make sure I am not confusing styles because I confuse language/terminology

 

[Gavin C]

With BIAB (if you choose to go that route), step mashing and decoction mashing are both very doable and fun.

Speaking from limited experience, these mashes definitely requires more planning and knowing how your pot/mash-tun performs makes planning and carrying out the mash a lot easier.

Step mashing with direct heating, infusions of hot water or decoctions are all things to experiment with but there is a great deal to be said for being able to master carrying out a simpler single infusion (very non-German) mash. After a few batches it becomes routine.

The same is true of the more complex mashes emulating German techniques but some experience in your wheel-house will be of huge benefir to you.

For lagers I would stress the need for a very accurate thermometer with a quick read, a fermentation chamber to precisely control, pitch temperatures, fermentation temperatures and the appropriate time to make changes in the temperatures. Kegging also makes lager brewing easier IMO.

Largers are trickier but are a whole lot of fun to plan and brew. Took me a little over a year before I felt capable but that is purely a reflection on my own skillset.

I posted a Helles Recipe to the database with some of the techniques your interested in. Done with a step mash via direct heating. Also added an Alt with a decoction mash. Both tasty beers and very German-like I think

 

[Braumeise]

Agreed 110%.

With tedious research, good attention to detail and determination anything is possible.

Most mistakes in home brewing I find are from differences in technique from one beer recipe to the next. If your focus is to make one recipe perfectly and only one recipe then I don't think there's much to worry about.

And this is from a fellow Bucks county brewer and fan of Munich lagers.

Go to keystone homebrew supply and walk about and get a feel for your new home. You'll end up spending a lot of time there once you get brewing.

Actually thats what I thought I would end up trying to do at one point. Just get one recipe perfect.... and then take it from there.

Right now my brain is about to shut down from information overload
Very cool to know some one in Bucks is making Munich Lagers
I'll invite myself for "Quality-checks" - just kidding !

 

[kh54s10]

her (!) not his Question

so in this german recipe it says:

Schroten:
Die Spelzen werden nach dem 1. Mahlgang so gut wie möglich abgetrennt(Plansichter Siebsatz 1. Sieb) und der verbliebene Rest wird erneut geschrotet.

You remove the spelt/Husk after the first round of crushing and you do this by using a "Plansichter Siebsatz", than you ground the grains again.

From the recipe quoted it says you do that with your malted grain before you mash it.
The reason to do it would be eliminating the tannins in the spelts/husk and therefore the flavor of your beer will be milder. Adding a portion of the extract you made from them later, to add just a hint of these flavors is obv. characteristical for Munich Brews.

keeping in mind that there is nothing in a Helles that will "mask" flavors and especially that the Augustiner is extremely mild yet very flavorful it makes a lot of sense to me...

although I will postpone trying this to a much later stage in my experiment

Sorry about the gender mistake. Since most of the HBTers are male I made a terrible conclusion.....

I have no idea what a "Plansichter Siebsatz" is.

Tannin extraction is something that is not really an issue in a homebrewing setting. It happens from a combination of pH and high temperature that are unlikely to be encountered.

 

[Braumeise]

I respectfully submit the following, including these three bits of advice:
1-Start with a kit!
2-Start with a kit!!
3-Start with a kit!!!

A metaphor: When we learn to walk all of us started as an infant worming and rolling around initially, followed by learning how to crawl. Around this time tenuous standing up starts followed by toddling around which as experience builds becomes true walking and then running ability development is right behind that.

Brewing, on some levels, is like this. Like learning to walk and run there are many things that can go wrong in each step of the brewing process!

Starting with a kit merely skips over a few steps in the process. But don't worry, there are still lots of things that you can do incorrectly! With a kit you still have to do most of the work that is required to make beer. You only basically skip over recipe formulation, grinding of the grain, and mashing/sparging.

You still have to pay attention to sanitation, still get to use your brew kettle, still get to cool your wort, still get to pitch the yeast, still get to tend to the fermentation as needed, still get to bottle and/or keg, and still get to drink it!

Starting with a kit lets you get that "back half" of the brewing process down before introducing the "front half" of it.

Prost!

I shall not use cake mix... I shall not.... my pride! Sir! a sacrilege !!!

Okay, you almost have me convinced.

To get a idea of my refusal here, you have to understand that we Germans take pride in doing stuff from scratch and that it was a sacrilege in the house I grew up in to use anything prepared or processed if you could do it yourself.

non of my German friends own a microwave. The "worst" you would do is buy pizza dough but you would still make the sauce from real tomatoes...

This might just be me having funny friends ...
let me think about the KIT for a while... maybe I will consider it.

 

[Roadie]

To brew a lager to the degree that you want I hope that you have fermentation control on your equipment spreadsheet!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to start with all grain and skip extract (I did) and truth be told I had a spreadsheet when I bought all of my equipment and had not watched anyone brew before I ordered my equipment so it can be done but it is not the route most traveled. I started with some people's version of a homebrewer's "dream system" but before I purchased anything I had done a LOT of research and knew exactly what I wanted and why I needed it. I'm not sure you're at that point yet so I don't think I would pull the trigger on equipment yet if I were you.

The best advice I've seen on this thread is to go out and watch people brew - in person. You've been given 1 personal invitation and it appears there is a brew club in your area so you should hit that up as well and let them know you'd like to attend some of their brew sessions. After you've seen a variety of systems (multi-vessel, biab, electric, propane, etc.) you'll figure out what would work best for you and THEN pull the trigger on your shopping list.

 

[Braumeise]

Sorry about the gender mistake. Since most of the HBTers are male I made a terrible conclusion.....

not a big deal just wanted to clarify... would be strange otherwise for me...

I have no idea what a "Plansichter Siebsatz" is.

neither do I... I have a general idea of how that looks in industrial production yet no clue how to replicate that for homebrewing use.
Will research...

Tannin extraction is something that is not really an issue in a homebrewing setting. It happens from a combination of pH and high temperature that are unlikely to be encountered.

ok. that is valuable information, merci!

i might still want to figure out how to do it, just because

 

[Braumeise]

To brew a lager to the degree that you want I hope that you have fermentation control on your equipment spreadsheet!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to start with all grain and skip extract (I did) and truth be told I had a spreadsheet when I bought all of my equipment and had not watched anyone brew before I ordered my equipment so it can be done but it is not the route most traveled. I started with some people's version of a homebrewer's "dream system" but before I purchased anything I had done a LOT of research and knew exactly what I wanted and why I needed it. I'm not sure you're at that point yet so I don't think I would pull the trigger on equipment yet if I were you.

The best advice I've seen on this thread is to go out and watch people brew - in person. You've been given 1 personal invitation and it appears there is a brew club in your area so you should hit that up as well and let them know you'd like to attend some of their brew sessions. After you've seen a variety of systems (multi-vessel, biab, electric, propane, etc.) you'll figure out what would work best for you and THEN pull the trigger on your shopping list.

Yup! sounds like a plan!
100% agreed!

i did not intend brewing anything in the near future... I really need that personal "tipping point" and for now I feel like I have plenty of unsorted information in my head that lacks the "master plan" so... patience is my middle name for now

 

[kh54s10]

not a big deal just wanted to clarify... would be strange otherwise for me...


neither do I... I have a general idea of how that looks in industrial production yet no clue how to replicate that for homebrewing use.
Will research...


ok. that is valuable information, merci!

Isn't that French??

i might still want to figure out how to do it, just because

This is cool. I may have to look into it just to see what it is...
I doubt I would ever do it though since I would be too lazy....

 

[Braumeise]

If you're REALLY interested in adding some sort of chaff, you can always add rice hulls to your grain bill. A lot of brewers do that to help prevent stuck sparges. I've never done it, but I am not a very advanced brewer, and I rarely brew beer, although I love beer, it just takes more time than I have available. I mainly brew hard ciders, myself.

I wanted to get rid of it...

rice chaff is obv. a valuable resource of nutrition and balancing the ph in the feed for horses prone to ulcers...

not sure how that transfers to brewing and if I will ever need to know

 

[Braumeise]

This is cool. I may have to look into it just to see what it is...
I doubt I would ever do it though since I would be too lazy....

yup... merci is french for thank you...
I usually use italian: mille grazie...

to many alien friends from all over europe

 

[Braumeise]

Quoted for emphasis, because I was about to post this same thing. Kits are far more involved than buying a cake mix, at least in my opinion. If nothing else, it gives you a clean slate to start on for fermentation. If something does go wrong and you are trying to figure out, "Why does my beer taste bad" This at least should give you a good starting ground to make sure you can pinpoint some mistakes, before you add too much to the process. I think too many beginners underestimate the power of good fermentation, enough yeast, good temps, etc. Usually, when I've tasted a "Bad" beer, it's because the fermentation was off, not because they added a grain I'm not a fan of.

I can not replicate the grumbling sound that I am making and the face that comes with it...

You guys are slowly breaching my wall of stubborn refusal...

I get the point that if something goes wrong with a KIT I have less possible things to look at - hence, a better understanding and better source to gain experience...

*sigh

I might... really... I might...

 

[Braumeise]

The following picture shows what a proper grain crush should look like. If you google "noonan grain crush homebrewtalk" there's a thread that discusses percentages of husk, crushed grain, flour, etc. Some of the pictures won't load but you'll get the grist of the thread. Sorry.

I like the JSP Malt Mill because one model allows you to adjust one side and you get a varied level of crush.

You may want to try a kit, at least one time, because it allows you to concentrate on two of the salient features of brewing that often bedevil the beginning brewer: sanitation and fermentation temperature control. Once you get these down, and it will only be once, you can move on to all-grain brewing. Or just dive in; it's fun either way.

Cool! and thanks and... i might really consider a kit now...

I did not intent to mill/crush my grains but have them milled in the Supply shop.
I thought that was way to advanced for now.

Very highly appreciate the recommendation and the link.

I need a two week vacation to read and process all of the information now

 

[Braumeise]

Interesting thread...as a retired shop teacher my best advice would be to go help someone brew as soon as possible. You will realize that most of the worry is for nothing, and that it is much easier than expected. You will also get a chance to taste someone's homebrew while you're at it...just don't taste too much until the fermentor is happily put to bed...
Enjoy!

LOL!
Hey, I am German, beer is considered liquid food!


I'll check out the brew clubs and you are right, helping is a great way to learn and get experience rather than messing it up all on your own

 

[Braumeise]

Kit or recipe, it doesn't matter. What does matter is not getting involved in complex procedures. Get a simple method down and learn it then expand from there. Many people start with all grain and not a kit. But the successful ones take a tried and true recipe and use a simple brewing method and stick to that until they get the procedures down.

After you get comfortable with simple recipes and procedures you can take more advanced steps, like step infusion mashes or decoction mashes. Neither of which I would recommend for a beginner. Lagers or very high gravity brews I would also recommend against.

Another way beginners mess up is to try to alter a kit or recipe without knowledge of what effects their alterations will have on the end product.

Keep it simple to start off.

you sound so reasonable and so right...

and I guess I am finally getting the point... when you start drawing you don't start with replicating Dürer or Rembrand you start with the basic shapes...

Thanks!

 

[Braumeise]

You understand me!!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

and yes, my original goal is to get this one recipe perfect!

I applaud you in your pursuit for perfection. I highly recommend you start with All Grain brewing using a step mash process and begin with lagers from the start.

This is what you want to drink, and this is what you should be brewing.

There is a difference between most homebrewers and you. You have a very narrow end result planned. Most homebrewers love the variety you can get by brewing your own, from pale to dark ales, german lagers, Belgian funk, etc.

Not you. You want a particular beer so don't bother messing with those other techniques! There is no reason an intelligent person can't start brewing lagers right from the start if they are willing to read up on it, get the right equipment, and be patient.

Thanks again!

I still want to figure out all the other options but I thought that once I get my Lager right only then I will start experimenting with other stuff.

I have to now figure out what will be the best way for me personally...
I will keep gathering and sorting information and at one point my brain gets it in order and has a "Plan" then I am good to go.
have experienced that with many different things here, that require learning new skills or adapting to new techniques...

I believe what you want to do is a step mash or decoction mash for your beer. This can be done with BIAB, which is an easy and inexpensive way to brew All Grain. A cooler mash tun doesn't make this easy, but if you do Decoction, then you will pulling a portion of the mash out of the cooler and boiling it and putting it back in. This is how the temperature gets higher. How much you pull out and boil determines how much hotter the mash is going to be.

That method is described in Palmers book. And it is obv. called "Zweimaischverfahren" in German.
I'll figure that out, maybe I really have to read everything in German again just to make sure I am not confusing technical terms.

I truly feel like an utter idiot reading some of this stuff in english - once I get the german translation it all is very clear...

I have no idea what you mean by separating the spelt etc. That is not something I'm familiar with, but I admit there is probably a LOT about German lager brewing methods that I don't know about.

I am getting closer to solving that mystery
Once I am doing it for the first time I will report
(probably two or three years from today)

One thing I do know. If you want to brew German Lagers, you will need a way to control the temperature. I recommend a small chest freezer and a temp controller like an STC-1000 to maintain primary temps (50F) and lagering temps (around 32F). I don't think you will be happy unless you can maintain the proper lager temps.

I am torn between chest freezer and compact fridge - considering that it has more space but thinking that me tiny person will have to lift the stuff in and out (and I am used to lifting heavy stuff and not scared of it - but I am tiny after all and will be pursuing this endeavor alone) I might aim for the more convenient compact fridge. But this and a external temperature control is on top of my shopping list.

Lastly, I highly recommend you check out Kai's website:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com

Kai is a very detailed and precise brewer who's done lots of experimenting in the past. He is the epitome of German Engineer as fast as I can tell. I don't know how much homebrewing experimenting he's done lately (he's got other hobbies too) but you may be interested in what he's done so far. I know I've seen a video or two on his techniques.

Keeping aiming for your goals. I know you have the attention to detail that lager brewing requires.

I will do

Thank you so much!

 

[trombasteve]

Hi Braumeise,

You've got lots of good info here, so I'll just add a few thoughts:

I would applaud your determination to make things from scratch at every stage, and recognize a German desire to do things the "authentic" way (my wife is German - we debate this often). I wouldn't necessarily say that you must use a kit, but extract (and some hop pellets, and an appropriate liquid yeast) rather than grain would be a good choice, as would starting with a hefeweizen if that's a style you also enjoy.

It seems that most people starting out on brewing focus a lot on recipe and ingredients, whereas I would suggest that more experienced brewers tend to place a lot more emphasis on the process itself as being the heart of brewing. There's not a huge difference between the recipes used in many different beers (especially in the wheat or pale lager families), but subtle procedural points make big differences. There are award-winning beers made with extracts, and poor beers made with all grain, fresh hops, etc., etc. The process is actually probably more than 80% of good brewing.

I would suggest that you focus on getting prepared to have a strong/healthy fermentation (IE - well-oxygenated, good temperature control, appropriate amount of healthy yeast), and get comfortable dealing with the time, space, and weight challenges involved in a brewday. It's a different animal than bread - bread isn't heavy, isn't hard to cool, or to move, and is generally made with flour you bought already milled and ready to use. If that's not a "cheat" in baking, then extract isn't a "cheat" in brewing.

At the beginning, you don't want to have 30-40 possible reasons why you didn't get the result you were hoping for - 5-10 would be lots! If you use all grain, then water chemistry isn't a big deal, unless you live in an area with water that is an issue, or choose to do BIAB, in which case tannins can be more of an issue, especially in a lighter beer. Respectfully, if your experience is at all like mine, you probably won't initially know precisely how to describe unintended flavours and results, and will have to rely on trial and error to isolate causes. This same dynamic is true at a number of levels - there are many questions to answer, and starting with only a few things mean that you have a fighting chance of knowing where to start solving problems if you aren't totally happy with the results. (Extract basically means you can cut out a few major possible areas of difficulty, and yeast provides an awful lot of the flavour in hefeweizens, anyway, so it's not a big compromise.)

Finally - reading and reading, and reading is a great start, but there's some element of actually physically coordinating brewing in your space and with your equipment that books won't necessarily prepare you for, but that can be a big factor when you've been brewing for four or five hours, and have 23L of hot liquid that then has to be cooled, transfered, oxygenated, moved into a fermenting space, and inoculated with yeast without doing anything wrong. Mistakes at the beginning of the process are actually probably less critical than mistakes at the end, and mental fatigue can be a factor (even if no one wants to admit it). Picking something less complicated to make lets you focus on the essential first steps. If you had never driven a car, and read everything on the internet about how to drive, you would probably be ready to practice driving around an empty parking lot. You wouldn't be ready for the autobahn, though. The way you use the car may be the same, but one is too complicated to reliably do right the first time.

In any event - happy brewing, and good luck!