Conditioning

[rodwha]

Does the ability for the flavors to meld lessen when cold?

I have an old ale that sat in primary for about 6 weeks and conditioning in the bottle for about 2 months, and I have a few in the fridge, but this one is a bit off and I'm wondering how the ones left in the fridge will fare compared to those in the closet.

The first one about a week and a half was great with a nice plum/raison flavor. Now there's something competing with it and winning a bit. Wish I could describe it.

 

[SnakeRidge]

Was it capped well? Could it be oxidation?

 

[rodwha]

This isn't the first time I've noticed this I believe. I was actually wondering this myself, though I wouldn't exactly say it tasted like wet cardboard, but with such a strong flavor from the beer mixing with it it could very well be.

I doubt it's my caps, though I can't say as it seems my carbonation levels always seem a little lower than it should. But with a fair bit of carbonation left I don't see how oxygen could get in.

One thing I sometimes have noticed is small bubbles in the siphon hose when I fill fast.

But I've also wondered about the siphon itself when transferring the beer. maybe it's taking time to become noticeable?

 

[SnakeRidge]

For me, with a big beer like that, the plum/raisin flavor can go to a more sherry like flavor. It kind of mutes and muddies a bit. I've never gotten the 'wet cardboard' and I have been brewing and bottling a big Imperial Stout and Barleywine each year for many years. That's what I've noticed with them, and I've tried some 8 and 10 year old bottles. Seems a bit quick on your time scale though. I'm just spitballin here.

 

[Jim311]

Do you suppose leaving it in the primary for so long might have contributed somehow? Or maybe the overall age of it?

 

[ncbrewer]

One thing I sometimes have noticed is small bubbles in the siphon hose when I fill fast.

But I've also wondered about the siphon itself when transferring the beer. maybe it's taking time to become noticeable?

I'm not real familiar with the oxidation effect, but they say it takes time for it to show up, so it could be from the siphon hose, or any part of the cold handling. Using a bottling spigot instead of siphoning might be worth a try.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, I gave up on using the auto siphon for bottling after the first try. To many streams of little bubbles no matter how tight I got the tubing. Built a bottling bucket with an Italian spigot (red & white ones) & no more problems. And some flavors do seem to change over time. Not much can be done about it. I need to work on that one as well, since those dark fruit sort of flavors were more common in some older styles.

 

[rodwha]

I don't use my auto-siphon to bottle with. I just transfer with it. I use a bottling wand/filler to fill the bottles by attaching it to the spigot with a short piece of tubing.

Sometimes when I fill fast with it I notice bubbles.

I've also noticed that it's rather difficult for me to get a good siphon going without a bit of air.

Today seemed rather terrible for bubbles in the transfer. I scooped out a good bit of the froth I saw. Hopefully that will reduce any oxidation.

 

[rodwha]

I began considering buying bottling buckets and just draining into a bottling bucket with a hose attached. It would certainly negate that portion which may or may not be my issue.

 

[unionrdr]

I run my racking tube from the spigots on my fermenters down about half way around the bottom of the bottling bucket. That has been working well as long as I keep the end of the racking tube trimmed to fit tightly on the spout of the FV's spigot.

 

[rodwha]

The end of my siphon tubing can also be a part of the problem as it's hard to get the end down right, and once I pull up on the siphon it pulls the hose up and next thing I see is the beer flowing up and on to the side of the bottling bucket instead of around the base. I keep thinking I should have my spoon handy to push it down with but never think about it until I notice it.

The more and more I think about this the more I'm inclined to believe oxidation is my problem, though I can't say I'd describe it as wet cardboard. When this description is used is it in conjunction with the beer's flavor which can then muddy the overall taste? How did wet cardboard get used as the descriptor?

 

[unionrdr]

Because that's what it tastes like. It tastes just like dank, moldy cardboard smells in a damp basement. Gag reflex time!

 

[ncbrewer]

The end of my siphon tubing can also be a part of the problem as it's hard to get the end down right, and once I pull up on the siphon it pulls the hose up and next thing I see is the beer flowing up and on to the side of the bottling bucket instead of around the base. I keep thinking I should have my spoon handy to push it down with but never think about it until I notice it.

I had this problem when I went from a standard racking cane to an auto siphon. Then I got tubing about 18" longer - that was plenty long enough to raise the auto siphon for the pumping action without pulling the tubing off the bottom of the bottling bucket.

 

[rodwha]

Hmmm... Not so sure this is a wet cardboard-like flavor. Maybe with more time? But there is a familiar mild off flavor I have had every now and then. For some reason I've considered it to be a yeast-like flavor, though it doesn't really seem yeast-like and my fermentation temps are in check and enough yeast is pitched. I made starters with liquids and reused yeast, and rehydrate the dry.

My siphon is 5' long and I keep the buckets close together. There's spare tubing, but it still moves when I cycle the siphon. I use a 1/2" siphon.

 

[ncbrewer]

My siphon is 5' long and I keep the buckets close together. There's spare tubing, but it still moves when I cycle the siphon. I use a 1/2" siphon.

It seems like your tubing is determined to lift off the bottom of the bucket. I've never heard of this being done, but maybe attach a stainless or brass pipe fitting to the end of the tube to weigh it down. Something like a barb fitting with a short pipe or coupling screwed to it. It should be pretty easy to clean and sanitize.

 

[rodwha]

It has memory and coils (which I like) but becomes somewhat stiff too. That's where the lift seems to come from. Adding a significant amount of weight as you suggested would likely fix or hinder it enough. If nothing else it would drop back down for sure.

I had ordered another length of tubing (another reason) but just hadn't swapped it. Maybe it's just old now (~2 yrs?).

I must say the idea of using bottling buckets and using a length of hose seems about impregnable to oxidizing. But then I'm not wholly certain this is my issue, especially since I don't taste "wet cardboard." Maybe it's a time thing too in that it doesn't fully develop that flavor for some time, or that I'm not oxidizing it enough to make it pronounced enough?

 

[unionrdr]

This may not matter much, but it's a thought. While racking from primary to the bottling bucket, I keep the racking tube to one side so i can set the lid over the bottling bucket, nearly covering it completely. Maybe a bit of something settling into it where you're actually racking it?

 

[rodwha]

That's certainly an idea and worth trying. I don't care much for the idea of replacing all of my buckets to bottling buckets!

I need to look for a video on people using their siphon correctly. Maybe I'm just not doing it quite right.

 

[unionrdr]

Or just pick up a lid at Home Depot or Lowe's that'll fit loosely?

 

[rodwha]

In one video I noticed the guy began with the cane pulled out of the body, and with just the downward stroke created a siphon, though a slow one. Another stroke filled the hose.

But in the NB video I see he did it more like the way I do it, though I often do 2 or 3 strokes.

Stroking it might seem a little odd for conversation, but how do you do it?

Sorry...couldn't help myself...

 

[rodwha]

Even cut a notch for the hose to fit through. I do put my fermentor lid on my bottling bucket after transfer as SWMBO buys a lot of fruits and vegetables from a co-op and so fruit flies and gnats aren't uncommon at times.

 

[unionrdr]

I have a spigot on mine...

 

[rodwha]

You do mean that your fermentors are bottling buckets, right?