Concord Kettle... which eBay seller?

[petrolSpice]

I'm looking at getting a 60qt Concord stainless kettle from eBay. I see dozens of sellers selling this kettle with a wide variety of prices and different pictures.

Which one should I get?

Here's 2 that are the same price, but look very different. The lid and handles are the biggest difference.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCORD-Pol...hash=item20fd189049:m:mpPuevxvxy2IzMuXj4gs9ow

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCORD-Sta...hash=item20da980ec1:m:mZITm8bwt3usUoa9QvYH3PA

 

[Rockn_M]

I'm a big proponent of you get what you paid for. When I was building my system I looked at those but they seemed to get bad reviews. For a few dollars more you can get buy from here. http://www.wayfair.com/Bayou-Classic-Stock-Pot-with-Lid-10-xx-BAY1032.html?piid%5B0%5D=2075626. They have excellent customer service and fast shipping. One of my pots came damaged and they sent me a brand new pot rush shipping, no questions asked.

 

[petrolSpice]

I'm a big proponent of you get what you paid for. When I was building my system I looked at those but they seemed to get bad reviews. For a few dollars more you can get buy from here. http://www.wayfair.com/Bayou-Classic-Stock-Pot-with-Lid-10-xx-BAY1032.html?piid%5B0%5D=2075626. They have excellent customer service and fast shipping. One of my pots came damaged and they sent me a brand new pot rush shipping, no questions asked.

There are lots of positive reviews of the Concord kettles on here. They are thicker and more durable than BC too from what people have reported. I have the BC 44 qt now and I love it, but the Concord seems hard to beat for the price.

 

[Rockn_M]

There are lots of positive reviews of the Concord kettles on here. They are thicker and more durable than BC too from what people have reported. I have the BC 44 qt now and I love it, but the Concord seems hard to beat for the price.

It is a good price. It's been a while but I found some reviews that weren't on ebay that talked about the pot they received wasn't the pot that was on the website and rust spots showed up pretty quickly.

 

[Thorsbrew]

And from what I've read spike actually uses concord kettles?

As for what seller to buy from I'd imagine buying from seller "concordcookware" would be best as it seems to actually be concord? Perhaps not but i'd imagine using that name would have legal repercussions if they werent?

Don't quote me though just thoughts off the top of me head.

PS: I also plan to buy concord kettles eventually for myself (especially if spike use them and just add their own welds.....and i plan to silver solder my own fittings). So i'd love to hear others opinions.

 

[petrolSpice]

It is a good price. It's been a while but I found some reviews that weren't on ebay that talked about the pot they received wasn't the pot that was on the website and rust spots showed up pretty quickly.

I didn't realize the BC 62qt was only $2 more (amazon) than the Concord. It's also narrower and thus might fit my Wilser BIAB bag... hmmm.

Still curious on the original question of which one to go with. Or maybe they are the same and the pictures are outdated.

 

[Thorsbrew]

I also just googled concord kettles and you can buy directly from concordkettles.com for about the same price and still free shipping.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

And from what I've read spike actually uses concord kettles?

As for what seller to buy from I'd imagine buying from seller "concordcookware" would be best as it seems to actually be concord? Perhaps not but i'd imagine using that name would have legal repercussions if they werent?

Don't quote me though just thoughts off the top of me head.

PS: I also plan to buy concord kettles eventually for myself (especially if spike use them and just add their own welds.....and i plan to silver solder my own fittings). So i'd love to hear others opinions.

We do not use Concord kettles. Years ago (before I worked here) I think we might have used them. The Concord kettles are not a true 304 stainless and are just a cheap Chinese kettle. They are not on par with quality equipment like us, Blichmann and SS.

 

[Thorsbrew]

We do not use Concord kettles. Years ago (before I worked here) I think we might have used them. The Concord kettles are not a true 304 stainless and are just a cheap Chinese kettle. They are not on par with quality equipment like us, Blichmann and SS.

Apologies if you don't use it but as i said i wasn't sure, just thought i read that somewhere.

As for concord not using 304, you sure about that? This listing (Here) states "Stock pot is made from Fully Polished Restaurant Grade 18/10 T304 Stainless Steel.". Granted that one is a bit pricier than others.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Apologies if you don't use it but as i said i wasn't sure, just thought i read that somewhere.

As for concord not using 304, you sure about that? This listing (Here) states "Stock pot is made from Fully Polished Restaurant Grade 18/10 T304 Stainless Steel.". Granted that one is a bit pricier than others.

18/10 is 316 not 304. Concord imports and has resellers. They don't have quality control or metallurgy testing. We test all our stainless and we've tested Concords before. Concord's stainless is far below the 304 specs and nowhere close to 18/10 316. This topic has been discussed elsewhere on here as well: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574493.

 

[MaryB]

My 60 quart concord kettle is holding up just fine. No signs of rust, no pitting... And whatever grade stainless they used it is HARD to drill. Far harder than my Bayou kettle.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

My 60 quart concord kettle is holding up just fine. No signs of rust, no pitting... And whatever grade stainless they used it is HARD to drill. Far harder than my Bayou kettle.

They use a lower grade stainless that is jacked up with manganese which makes it non-magnetic so customers will think it is 304SS. Glad you're not having issues with your equipment. We have had many others that have reported issues to us.

At the end of the day it comes down to not trying to intentionally deceive your customers. That is something we stand for and I'm sure any of the reputable suppliers would also agree with this.

 

[petrolSpice]

I ended up going with the BC 62qt pot, it was only $2 more, has welded instead of riveted handles, is 1/2 gal larger than the Concord 60qt, and will fit my current Wilser BIAB bag.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

OP already bought a pot but the concord from EBAY is so heavy duty it will NEVER NEVER fail.Ive been using mine for 2 years without a single ussue with rust pitting whatever and I drilled a hole for an electric element and temp probe..This pot will out live me and I have a long way to go.Anyone reading this post should have no worries buying a Concord pot.Mine is 80 Qt

 

[mbbransc]

OP already bought a pot but the concord from EBAY is so heavy duty it will NEVER NEVER fail.Ive been using mine for 2 years without a single ussue with rust pitting whatever and I drilled a hole for an electric element and temp probe..This pot will out live me and I have a long way to go.Anyone reading this post should have no worries buying a Concord pot.Mine is 80 Qt

I was going to say all of this. It's as if I wrote it!

 

[MaryB]

It was a $129 kettle, if it lasts 5 years I am good and will buy another!

They use a lower grade stainless that is jacked up with manganese which makes it non-magnetic so customers will think it is 304SS. Glad you're not having issues with your equipment. We have had many others that have reported issues to us.

At the end of the day it comes down to not trying to intentionally deceive your customers. That is something we stand for and I'm sure any of the reputable suppliers would also agree with this.

 

[mikescooling]

I have CC pots, you get a lot for your money, A LOT! But it's still just a cheap pot. I've had mine for 3 years and love them.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

It was a $129 kettle, if it lasts 5 years I am good and will buy another!

Our stance is still we do not condone the intentional false advertising their company promotes. However it seems like many brewers do not care and are happy with the price and pot they received. It does undermine rebuttal company's like us, Blichmann and SS that have strict quality control standards. When people think a Concord is of the same quality as our tanks yet half the price something looks off (because it is).

-Tim

 

[wilserbrewer]

To the OP, Concord markets 3 different kettles, the two links you provided show the lid design differences, One lid is domed and the other lid is flat on the kettle. At one time I thought the domed lid was the new design to replace the flat lid design, but that does not seem to be happening any time soon. I believe these kettles are 1.0 mm thick.

They also sell a less expensive domed lid version that is 0.8 mm thick for a few less dollars.

Only $81 shipped (vs $90 for the 1.0 mm) for a 15 gallon, wow that's cheap, and still a decent pot I'm sure as I think the B/C pots are only 0.8 mm thickness as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCORD-Hom...hash=item20edae3730:m:mdTw25IHRK8tQ356wq35R7w

 

[MaryB]

As far as false advertising... I would have to see metallurgical test results to believe you. Because you are very much bashing someone who is producing a decent usable kettle "claiming" they use lesser steels. Really comes off to me as sour grapes that you are being undercut badly on price.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Our stance is still we do not condone the intentional false advertising their company promotes. However it seems like many brewers do not care and are happy with the price and pot they received. It does undermine rebuttal company's like us, Blichmann and SS that have strict quality control standards. When people think a Concord is of the same quality as our tanks yet half the price something looks off (because it is).

-Tim

Like your 25,000 grant advertising pic that shows a spike conical with a made in the USA sticker on the stand and a USA flag in the background when really the conicals are made in China?

Intentionally misleading people isn't any different in my eyes.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

As far as false advertising... I would have to see metallurgical test results to believe you. Because you are very much bashing someone who is producing a decent usable kettle "claiming" they use lesser steels. Really comes off to me as sour grapes that you are being undercut badly on price.

Don't take our word for it. A 3rd independent party as also confirmed what we found out 2 years ago. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574493

Like your 25,000 grant advertising pic that shows a spike conical with a made in the USA sticker on the stand and a USA flag in the background when really the conicals are made in China?

Intentionally misleading people isn't any different in my eyes.

That is our older conical which was fully made in the USA and welded in the USA by our employees in the USA.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Don't take our word for it. A 3rd independent party as also confirmed what we found out 2 years ago. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574493



That is our older conical which was fully made in the USA and welded in the USA by our employees in the USA.

That's great but now you outsource them to China and the picture would imply they were still going to be American made is my point. It was/is misleading the customer if they don't ask up front.

 

[wilserbrewer]

We do not use Concord kettles. Years ago (before I worked here) I think we might have used them. The Concord kettles are not a true 304 stainless and are just a cheap Chinese kettle. They are not on par with quality equipment like us, Blichmann and SS.

If I am not mistaken, Ben started Spike Brewing selling chinese kettles that were if not Concord, were very similar if not identical. The new line of kettles is entirely different, and very nice BTW. I would think it more accurate if the word "cheap" in your text was replaced with "inexpensive", describing the Concord kettles. The term cheap has an implied definition of low quality, that is not entirely true IMO. With regards to Concord being made in China, what isn't these days lol. The fact is that we have both inexpensive and expensive kettles being made in China, are they the same pots, no.

18/10 is 316 not 304. Concord imports and has resellers. They don't have quality control or metallurgy testing. We test all our stainless and we've tested Concords before. Concord's stainless is far below the 304 specs and nowhere close to 18/10 316. This topic has been discussed elsewhere on here as well: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574493.

Concords stainless is actually closest to the designation J4, if someone wants to read the entire linked thread, while not 304 as claimed, grade J4 is more than adequate for homebrewing IMO, and should last a couple lifetimes.

While Concord may not be a metals expert, and obviously has zero metallurgy testing ability, I would certainly think the manufacturer is testing materials and maintaining reasonable quality control standards, as proven by the long track record of satisfied Concord users.

With all due respect to the Spike product, and I really do think you have a wonderful line of goods! I also realize that you can't have the representation made that a Concord is of similar make up to the Spike kettles,it is NOT, I just feel your words about the "inexpensive" Concord kettles to be a bit misleading.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Why didn't my last post show up...Shrug
I actually read every post on the link Spike put up.It seems concord is J4 and better than 201 stainless which is more than OK for homebrew.The only issue would be cleaning with acid???What home brewer uses acid to clean the pots..Nobody.I use a sponge and that aint eatin away at any metal.Seems rust only is an issue if theres some sort of contamination in the welding/making stage that can happen with the highest end pot.With respect to Spike I'd put up a Concord against there pot any day of the week...Just because someone came up with a better mouse trap doesn't make it bad..If it works it works

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Hey guys, Ben here. Just got forwarded this so I thought I'd chime in.

That's great but now you outsource them to China and the picture would imply they were still going to be American made is my point. It was/is misleading the customer if they don't ask up front.

The picture in question is from 3 months ago and is of our older conicals which were US made. Our new conicals will be out in a couple months. Those will be partially made in China with all the welding done in our shop. It's just not possible to make them in the US any longer.

If I am not mistaken, Ben started Spike Brewing selling chinese kettles that were if not Concord, were very similar if not identical. The new line of kettles is entirely different, and very nice BTW. I would think it more accurate if the word "cheap" in your text was replaced with "inexpensive", describing the Concord kettles. The term cheap has an implied definition of low quality, that is not entirely true IMO. With regards to Concord being made in China, what isn't these days lol. The fact is that we have both inexpensive and expensive kettles being made in China, are they the same pots, no.

Concords stainless is actually closest to the designation J4, if someone wants to read the entire linked thread, while not 304 as claimed, grade J4 is more than adequate for homebrewing IMO, and should last a couple lifetimes.

While Concord may not be a metals expert, and obviously has zero metallurgy testing ability, I would certainly think the manufacturer is testing materials and maintaining reasonable quality control standards, as proven by the long track record of satisfied Concord users.

With all due respect to the Spike product, and I really do think you have a wonderful line of goods! I also realize that you can't have the representation made that a Concord is of similar make up to the Spike kettles,it is NOT, I just feel your words about the "inexpensive" Concord kettles to be a bit misleading.

I'd double down on the 'cheap' and 'intentionally misleading'. We started selling our pots using Concord as a supplier when we first started out. Once we had the funding to do proper testing it came to our attention that the 304SS that we had requested was not 304. Instead it was a cheap stainless that our lab could not identify. When we demanded 304 going forward the prices shot up more than 30%. This 'J4' knockoff stainless isn't used because it's almost as good or better; it's used because it's much cheaper as it has almost no nickel.

I looked into the 'J4' stainless you speak of and that is just one company's 'proprietary' cheap Chinese SS blend with lower nickel and chromium. It is not recognized by the ASTM. In reference to 304SS, Concord's pots have 85% too little nickel and 25% too little chromium. Nickel is expensive and that's why they skimp on it out. You'll also see they have 400% more manganese than the 304 spec. This is because it artificially creates an austenitic grain structure that makes the material non-magnetic. Without this manganese it would be magnetic and a dead give away that it is not 304SS. All this was taught to me by our lab tech (I do not claim to be a metals expert) and might be a good question for John Palmer as he IS a metals expert.

In Concord's defense they are not metal experts. I spoke with the owner years ago and brought this issue up. As far as I could tell he had no idea about the lesser quality stainless they were selling. However since then they are fully aware of the material they are selling. Concord is trying to get customers the cheapest possible product that can possibly be made. Again this isn't a bad thing. The market obviously is calling for super cheap brewing pots HOWEVER lying about their composition and putting them in the same class as Spike, SS and Blichmann (as some have stated) is ridiculous.

Why didn't my last post show up...Shrug
I actually read every post on the link Spike put up.It seems concord is J4 and better than 201 stainless which is more than OK for homebrew.The only issue would be cleaning with acid???What home brewer uses acid to clean the pots..Nobody.I use a sponge and that aint eatin away at any metal.Seems rust only is an issue if theres some sort of contamination in the welding/making stage that can happen with the highest end pot.With respect to Spike I'd put up a Concord against there pot any day of the week...Just because someone came up with a better mouse trap doesn't make it bad..If it works it works

J4 isn't anything. It's just a term a Chinese company came up with for their fake stainless. See HERE. Again notice the manganese that is 400% higher. A true 201 would be ok but it still has half the nickel of 304. The issue is with pitting and rusting weld seams. The pots have a bottom and side weld seam. I've attached some pictures I could find from old customers that had issues. These are just from normal brewing.

With respect to Spike I'd put up a Concord against there pot any day of the week...Just because someone came up with a better mouse trap doesn't make it bad..If it works it works

This is the very scary thing (in my eyes) because people see a $100 Concord kettle and a $250 Spike, SS or Blichmann and say, "well they are both 304SS". Well that isn't the case; not in the least. Our raw material costs are at least 30% more than the Concord. We are also testing the materials to make sure they meet specs and don't have lead, cadmium, etc. Lastly, we all have R&D budgets to invent, innovate and drive the hobby forward. My view is that Concord undermines this and it's why we stopped doing with them years ago.


I'm glad this was brought up as it is an issue in my eyes. I'd be happy to answer any questions or shed light on anything else.

-Ben

 

[wilserbrewer]

Thanks Ben, I appreciated and enjoyed your well put together response.

I completely agree with you that it is not right for Concord to misrepresent their product as being on par with the higher end kettles as Spike, SS brewing, Blichmamn etc.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Hey guys, Ben here. Just got forwarded this so I thought I'd chime in.



The picture in question is from 3 months ago and is of our older conicals which were US made. Our new conicals will be out in a couple months. Those will be partially made in China with all the welding done in our shop. It's just not possible to make them in the US any

-Ben

I won't argue passed this but I definitely disagree with you saying it's not possible to make them in the US anymore. There are definitely lines of attack you couldve taken...

Also, I know when the picture was posted. It's misleading, you can argue all you want but it portrayed that your conicals would be built in the USA and fact is they will not be. It's awesome you guys built in the US at one point but now you sold out to China, own up to it and let the customers know where the product is coming from. I'd have been first in line for a spike built US conical, anyone can import a Chinese one. All I'm saying is what you're saying about concord is exactly what I see you guys do on Facebook. Not just with the conicals but also your kettles. I'm sure your stuff is fantastic but it definitely rubs me the wrong way when you lead customers to think you build your stuff in the USA.

I own a part time machine shop, it's not my entire income but I do all my work in house. Every piece of equipment inside of it was built here in the United States of America. You say that it's not feasible to built equipment here because of price, you're dead wrong. Plenty of companies do it every single day, I own their equipment and I run my shop with it.

 

[MaryB]

Considering they don't advertise as 304 stainless I see no issue! And one test by one company is NOT proof, it is proof that one bad batch of metal slipped through QC.

You still sound like sour grapes over the fact they undercut you badly in the homebrew market.

Don't take our word for it. A 3rd independent party as also confirmed what we found out 2 years ago. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574493



That is our older conical which was fully made in the USA and welded in the USA by our employees in the USA.

 

[sillbeer]

I bought my 80 quart Concord pot off eBay a few years ago and have really enjoyed it. It's not a true 80 quarts and only measures in at 18.5 gallons but it does the job I need. I've paid a fair amount for welding and finally have the pot how I like it. My final price is still cheaper than other off the shelf pots and if I had to do it again I would probably buy a complete pot from a reputable vendor. I may end up with a 30 gallon pot one of these days coming up and would buy one already complete versus buying a Concord again. Nothing against the Concord pot but I would rather just buy something in a finished state.

As for quality, I have zero issues with my Concord pot and it will probably last me for many more years as a home brewer.