Cold Crashing Fermented Beers Using Gelatin

[BlackDog-Brewery]

Here is the link to a short video about how I cold crash by Ales, Lagers, and Pilsners using Gelatin as a fining agent and to also minimize any remaining proteins that may cause Chill Haze.

Cheers !

 

[Pappers_]

After you use gelatin as a fining, do you force carb or naturally carb? I'm asking because someone else here asked a question earlier today - he had used gelatin as a fining for the first time and bottle carbing is taking longer than normal for him.

 

[applescrap]

Thank you! Whats the temp of a normal fridge I don't have a fermenting fridge but I guess I could cold crash in my kegerator if i wanted right. Most beer I brew I'm drinkin 10 days after I made it but if I ever get my act together and have a better pipeline I might try some of this. I wonder if you didn't use the gelatin and just stuck the beer in there and let it sit 10 days what it would look like.

 

[applescrap]

What's the soonest you could add the gelatin? could you add it in bottle right away?

 

[Brew_G]

After you use gelatin as a fining, do you force carb or naturally carb? I'm asking because someone else here asked a question earlier today - he had used gelatin as a fining for the first time and bottle carbing is taking longer than normal for him.

I'm not the OP, but in my experience there's been no difference in bottle carb time between fined and un-fined beers. Plenty of yeast left to eat the priming sugar.

 

[Brulosopher]

After you use gelatin as a fining, do you force carb or naturally carb? I'm asking because someone else here asked a question earlier today - he had used gelatin as a fining for the first time and bottle carbing is taking longer than normal for him.

I know plenty of folks who fine with gelatin and bottle condition, hasn't been an issue for them at all.

What's the soonest you could add the gelatin? could you add it in bottle right away?

Gelatin is generally added once fermentation is complete and during the cold crash OR at kegging. I've never heard of adding gelatin directly to the bottle.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: bottle conditioning time I have experienced significant lag from cold crashing will gelatine. I crash for a week just above freezing. I can only think this extended time was the cause

 

[applescrap]

Sorry I meant add it then bottle or keg right away

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

After you use gelatin as a fining, do you force carb or naturally carb?

Clearly I bottle condition the majority of my brews.

But that's an interesting question because your friend may have stumbled onto something.

Despite seeing many postings about how Gelatin does not flocculate out too much yeast where it would effect the ability to bottle condition your brews, once I find a recipe that I like and decide to brew it again I've found that the brews occasionally come out ever so slightly un-carbed if I follow the exact priming sugar recommendation.

Is that due to my personal tastes, or by using Gelatin as fining agent? Not really sure.

Could it be from only waiting 2 weeks for a "taste test" rather than waiting 4 weeks to say "it's ready"? Most of the time I find the answer is "Absolutely". Let it go another week at room temperature.

My suggestion is if you are going to cold crash with Gelatin 100% of the time on your Ales, Pilsners, and Lagers for the sole purpose of "cosmetics" like I do, then take detailed notes to see if you need to add some additional priming sugar if you decide to brew a 2nd batch of a recipe that you really love.

Also, don't use inaccurate "cup" measurements for your priming sugar. If the recipe calls for 1 cup / 5 gallons, measure 1 cup of the brand of the pure dextrose that you normally buy, and put it in your notes to see if you need to add or subtract for your 2nd batch in "ounces".

But getting back to the reason why I posting this thread . . . By adding such a simple step of "Gelatin" as a fining agent during your cold crash, I like how my brews consistently come out clear.

Cheers

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

Thank you! Whats the temp of a normal fridge I don't have a fermenting fridge but I guess I could cold crash in my kegerator if i wanted right. Most beer I brew I'm drinkin 10 days after I made it but if I ever get my act together and have a better pipeline I might try some of this. I wonder if you didn't use the gelatin and just stuck the beer in there and let it sit 10 days what it would look like.

Hi Applescrap,

You asked about what temp I keep my controller at . . .

To be honest, some people says to cold crash at or below freezing temps.

I've got all my other brews on the top shelves and I don't need any broken glass. So that is not an option for me. 35'f is the lowest I will go.

Cold crashing was nice, but adding Gelatin was definitely an improvement.

If you've got the room in your Kegerator to cold crash your next brew while you've got another one tapped then go for it !

The alternative is if you live in the northern hemisphere right now and the weather is cool in your garage / shed is getting down below 50'f / 10c, then store it there.

Thx for your reply !

Cheers

 

[Gavin C]

Your process seems to be a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

You're adding about 8oz of liquid by the looks of things. You really don't need that much liquid.

Also I think stirring the beer in the FV is entirely pointless when adding gelatin. All risk no reward. Kicking up settled particulate and oxygenating the beer are obvious risks)

No need for an airlock when cold crashing. That eliminates any suck back issue.

Beer doesn't freeze at 32F so you can chill it to that without any worries whatsoever. I suppose having other things in the fridge too means not going that cold.

Simple gelatin prep

Cold-crashed Beer

 

[Queequeg]

Adding extra priming sugar will not assist the rate carbonation. Rate of carbonation is a factor of yeast population and health as well as temperature. Increasing priming charge will only increase the amount of time taken to fully prime and the final CO2 volumes.

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

Adding extra priming sugar will not assist the rate carbonation. Rate of carbonation is a factor of yeast population and health as well as temperature. Increasing priming charge will only increase the amount of time taken to fully prime and the final CO2 volumes.

I agree.

Cheers.

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

I think stirring the beer in the FV is entirely pointless when adding gelatin. All risk no reward. Kicking up settled particulate and oxygenating the beer are obvious risks

Just to clarify . . . . I never stir in the Gelatin mixture to the point where I kick up any particulate (that would be pointless) and the tip of the spoon is not grazing anywhere near the bottom, and as shown in the video I do not come come close to ever forming a vortex to risk oxygenation.

About a 30 second gentle stir is all it gets.

But I am curious how you can be sure your Gelatin mixture is actually thoroughly mixing and becoming part of the solution throughout the entire fermenter if you just pour it? Isn't there a chance it would just stratify / settle near the bottom?

Cheers.

 

[Gavin C]

Just to clarify . . . . I never stir in the Gelatin mixture to the point where I kick up any particulate (that would be pointless) and the tip of the spoon is not grazing anywhere near the bottom, and as shown in the video I do not come come close to ever forming a vortex to risk oxygenation.

About a 30 second gentle stir is all it gets.

But I am curious how you can be sure your Gelatin mixture is actually thoroughly mixing and becoming part of the solution throughout the entire fermenter if you just pour it? Isn't there a chance it would just stratify / settle near the bottom?

Cheers.

Any stirring is too much stirring in my opinion.

It works just fine without any stirring. Completely unnecessary. Gelatin does settle at the bottom. That is the entire point. It settles out taking haze forming compounds with it.

I pour the gelatin solution through a narrow funnel with its tip below the surface of the beer in an effort to eliminate splashing and possible oxygenation.

I'm just trying to make your task simpler that's all. I like simple.

 

[brew703]

I actually posted a question about lack of carbonation when using gelatin. Not sure if Pappers was referring to my post or not. I bottled on 12/7. On 12/18 I tested and it was still completely flat. I have moved one six pack to my laundry room and placed the bottles on top of my upright freezer. I checked the temp with an infrared thermometer and it shows 77 degrees. Yesterday was three weeks. I was hoping this beer would be ready for Christmas but it doesn't seem like it will.
This was the first time using gelatin. I was curious to see if it actually cleared beer as many have mentioned. Most of my APA's are a little cloudy but after a couple months they do tend to clear.
I plan on testing another bottle Christmas Eve and I'm hoping that it has at least started to carb.

 

[seabrew8]

I've used gelatin now a few times and while i had some issues - lots of floaties in my recent batch but it drops out a hour or less in the fridge - i will continue to use it simply because it seems to be the cure for chill haze.

For such a cheap and simple process why wouldn't you want crystal clear beer!

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

Question for Gavin C:

What is your opinion about this quote that claims that Gelatin when used as a fining agent if only 1/4 effective when the solution is pitched into warm beer rather than cold crashing for 1 day then pitching?

Gelatin fining "properly" is cold crashing the beer for 24+ hours, then adding 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of gelatin dissolved in about 1/4 to 1/2 cup of hot tap water heated to 150°F covered with foil for 20-30 minutes and then pitched into the cold crashed beer and shaken a little. Adding it to warm beer and then chilling is 1/4 as effective.

Any thoughts ???

Cheers.

 

[BlackDog-Brewery]

I bottled on 12/7. On 12/18 I tested and it was still completely flat

Hi Brew703,

I've never followed that whole 2 weeks and it's ready to serve to your best friends and family BS.

The un-finished portion of my basement is pretty much between 65'f and 70'f all year long. Everybody's bottle conditioning environment is going to be different. But in my case my Ales are perfect within the 3 to 4 week range.

Big beers are more like 6 to 8 weeks.

Moving yours to the 77'f environment for another week should show signs of improvement. At least a "hiss" when you crack it open.

Good luck.

Cheers.

 

[seabrew8]

Hi Brew703,

I've never followed that whole 2 weeks and it's ready to serve to your best friends and family BS.

The un-finished portion of my basement is pretty much between 65'f and 70'f all year long. Everybody's bottle conditioning environment is going to be different. But in my case my Ales are perfect within the 3 to 4 week range.

Big beers are more like 6 to 8 weeks.

Moving yours to the 77'f environment for another week should show signs of improvement. At least a "hiss" when you crack it open.

Good luck.

Cheers.

Really? I've opened 2 day old bottled beer that wasn't flat - had a hiss, many times. Not like we would all like to have it but a fair bit of bubbles and even a little lacing sometimes.

 

[Gavin C]

Question for Gavin C:

What is your opinion about this quote that claims that Gelatin when used as a fining agent if only 1/4 effective when the solution is pitched into warm beer rather than cold crashing for 1 day then pitching?



Any thoughts ???

Cheers.

Not sure how you quantify the efficacy of gelatin so the whole notion of 1/4 as effective makes no sense to me. For me it's either effective or it's not.

The scientific theory behind the use of gelatin supports adding it to cold beer. I have no doubt many brewers will claim it is effective if added to warm beer. I do not favor that approach but am no authority on the topic.

Adding gelatin to hot water as the poster mentions is impractical. Try it and see for yourself. Better to add to cold as I illustrated earlier. Perhaps they mistyped and meant adding it to cold water and heating it later.

Shaking the FV. Not something I do for the same reasons I don't stir. I see no need and see only potential downsides to doing so.

All nit-picky stuff no doubt to some.

I get results I favor using my simple method.

Some typical beers fined with gelatin in the manner I outline






I'm sure you get results you favor with your approach too. Cheers mate. And nice job on the video BTW. Something I should have stated in my first post.

 

[applescrap]

Not sure how you quantify the efficacy of gelatin so the whole notion of 1/4 as effective makes no sense to me. For me it's either effective or it's not.

The scientific theory behind the use of gelatin supports adding it to cold beer. I have no doubt many brewers will claim it is effective if added to warm beer. I do not favor that approach but am no authority on the topic.

Adding gelatin to hot water as the poster mentions is impractical. Try it and see for yourself. Better to add to cold as I illustrated earlier. Perhaps they mistyped and meant adding it to cold water and heating it later.

Shaking the FV. Not something I do for the same reasons I don't stir. I see no need and see only potential downsides to doing so.

All nit-picky stuff no doubt to some.

I get results I favor using my simple method.

Some typical beers fined with gelatin in the manner I outline
View attachment 324634

View attachment 324635

View attachment 324637

I'm sure you get results you favor with your approach too. Cheers mate. And nice job on the video BTW. Something I should have stated in my first post.

In a plastic bucket it will spread the same? Anyone know...as i agree no stir.


What is gelatin anyways? Pigs ears and hoof?

I cant say nothing i would wolf down a box of cheap mexican jello cups in an instant and have. That knox gelatin in large quantity makes gummy bears and finger jello too.i think gelatin is good for you google it. I digress. Gelatin in bucket ideas?

Its cold here shouldnt fight free cold crash but honestly ok here it comes dont slap me isnt this all not important when compared with say grain quality.

 

[brew703]

All my other brews were ready within a week so I know this one time is because I used gelatin. I bottled another APA on 12/19 and used gelatin. I'll try this one on Friday to see how it is.
If the second one comes out flat then I'll have to re-think using gelatin in the future.
I've read a lot of posts about gelatin and 99% of people had no carbonation issues. It figures I would fall in that 1% that would.

 

[The_Bishop]

Before I started kegging, I gelatin fined all my beer. Never had a bottle conditioned batch not carbonate.

Did you forget to add the priming sugar, maybe?

 

[brew703]

No, didn't forget priming sugar LOL. I used 1.25 oz primimg sugar mixed with 1/2 c water and boiled for 4 minutes for the 2 gallon batch which amounts to 2.4 vol.

 

[GHBWNY]

FWIW, I gel all my beers (obviously, not hefes or wits). Pretty much use Gavin C's process for mixing the gelatin. However --- tho' totally unnecessary --- I carefully (avoiding agitation/oxygenation) rack off the primary first to a second vessel, cold-crash the second vessel in the fridge for 24 hrs., then add the gelatin (don't stir), leave in C-C for 3-4 days, carefully rack to bottle. Super clear beer every time, no carb issues, full pour with no micro-trubbies in the bottom of the glass.

 

[Terek]

saved for future use. good read/watch, whatever

 

[Brew_G]

1) Chill beer
2) Add gelatin per standard instructions (like how Gavin mentioned)
3) Don't stir - it's completely unnecessary
4) Let gelatin do its thing for about 48 hours while you continue to chill
5) Package

Natural carbonation: Fining with gelatin doesn't scrub the beer of all yeast, so provided it's not a huge beer that would have already stressed the yeast; there are plenty left in the beer to carbonate it. This has been proven in numerous times by many, many home brewers. Might it delay carbonation a bit? Yes...but my own experience is that it has no appreciable effect on carbonation times or amounts.

 

[brew703]

I dropped the temps to 43 degrees, added the gelatin and left for 3 days then bottled. I'm not sure why I'm having this issue- I used 1/2T gelatin and I think 1/2 c water, allowed to bloom for 30 min then heated in 15 sec burst until it hit 150 then added to my bucket.
Oh well, live and learn I guess.
After looking at Gavin's process, maybe I added too much gelatin. I've read many posts and people use different amounts so I went with 1/2T. This was used in a 3 gallon batch. I also added gelatin to a 2 gallon batch but I used around 2 grams-not sure how that translates to TSP.
I do see some trub at the bottom of the bottle but it is less than normal.

 

[UndeadFred]

I've tried it both ways but not scientifically. Actually I was gelatin fining for awhile adding warm and then I read the Brulosopher's posts on it and tried it cold. Again, no scientific triangle test, but it seems to work much better. I am not really sure why.. but why fight it.. the 1/4 as well number is my personal judgement on the matter.

Both methods do show results but adding after cold crash is almost "filter" quality...

 

[UndeadFred]

And no, as long as your water is about 120F or less when you add the gelatin it doesn't gel up (turn to jello). So yeah I add my 1/2 tsp to 120F water, stir it, and burst heat it into the microwave to about 150F, let it sit 10-15 minutes to cool to 80-90ish and then I throw into a cold crashed keg. I've not bottled with gelatin yet as it would be a PITA in my current configuration, but doing this to a keg works very well and is only slightly harder than not doing it at all. (you have to re-purge the keg). It even works when the beer is already carbonated.

Yes I add it in at about 90-100F but it's a <1/2 cup into 5 gallons of beer. No issues.

 

[Gavin C]

No cooling for me before adding gelatin. Not sure why anyone would do that.

Cold water from fridge is my source of cold water. Gelatin added to it.

Heat to ~150F as outlined and into the beer in the FV right away. No cooling needed. When it hits the 5+ gallons of beer at 32F it cools instantly.

Why add time to a simple task?

Why heat the water to 100F or 120F befor adding the gelatin?

I'm not seeing the reasoning behind these added steps I'm afraid.

 

[Brew_G]

No cooling for me before adding gelatin. Not sure why anyone would do that.



Cold water from fridge is my source of cold water. Gelatin added to it.



Heat to ~150F as outlined and into the beer in the FV right away. No cooling needed. When it hits the 5+ gallons of beer at 32F it cools instantly.



Why add time to a simple task?



Why heat the water to 100F or 120F befor adding the gelatin?



I'm not seeing the reasoning behind these added steps I'm afraid.

Agreed completely, Gavin. It's a simple process that works when followed correctly, and there's no need to deviate from that process.

I just fined an IPA this morning using the same steps I always use, and I expect it to deliver a quite clear beer that has plenty of flavor and aroma and that carbonates within 2-3 weeks.

 

[beskone]

My cold crashed then gelatin fined beers ALWAYS take longer to carb in the bottle.

My Saisons and Wheat beers which I only cold crash carb up in 2-3 weeks every time.

My IPA's and Pale Ales I gelatin consistently take 3-6 weeks, I've had some take even longer. It also seems the higher the gravity/higher IBU's the longer it takes.

I do the 1/2tsp knox, 1/2 cup water, bloom then heat then pout right over the to technique.

I'm glad I'm about to start my keezer build after the Christmas goodies come in!

 

[BrunDog]

I must be stoopid anal about sanitation... I put a piece of saran over the measuring cup and microwave it until it boils. Then I slip the saran open, put a thermo probe in, then wait until the temp comes down to 150, then add the gelatin. I keep the saran on it until pouring it in.

I know the finished beer is less likely to take on microbes, but I guess I treat everything as aseptically as possible.

-BD

 

[Brew_G]

I find it interesting that some people have bottle-carbing issues with gelatin-fined beers, while others (like me) have none whatsoever. I really wonder why that is.

I'm in the process of getting all my ducks in a row (i.e. getting all the parts) for a kegerator build, so I'm in the same boat as you, @beskone!

 

[doug293cz]

No, didn't forget priming sugar LOL. I used 1.25 oz primimg sugar mixed with 1/2 c water and boiled for 4 minutes for the 2 gallon batch which amounts to 2.4 vol.

1.25 oz of sucrose (table sugar) will create 1.22 volumes of CO2 in 2 gal of beer. 1.25 oz of dextrose monohydrate (corn sugar) will create 1.05 volumes. To get 2.4 volumes from that amount of sugar your beer would have to have 1.18 or 1.35 volumes of residual CO2 from fermentation. 1.18 volumes would require that the beer saw no higher than 47°F, and 1.35 no more than 41°F during or after fermentation. If you finished at 68°F (after diacetyl rest) your residual CO2 would be about 0.75 volumes. Then with the amount of priming sugar you added you would max out at 1.97 or 1.80 volumes in your beer, not 2.4. Cold crashing adds very little CO2 to the beer due to reabsorption from the headspace (see my analysis here), since once fermentation is done there is no more CO2 being generated.

Brew on

 

[Gavin C]

No, didn't forget priming sugar LOL. I used 1.25 oz primimg sugar mixed with 1/2 c water and boiled for 4 minutes for the 2 gallon batch which amounts to 2.4 vol.

Priming sugar

Just bring it to a boil. Boil a minute if you feel the need. Any longer is overkill and pointless. I do it in the microwave and look through the door. When I see it boil it's done. Ping! and into the bottling bucket, cider/beer follows right away. (Typically 1 gallon of cider is what I bottle)

That's not enough sugar for a 2 gallon batch targeting 2.4 volumes.

If your using a calculator make sure you enter the warmest temperature the beer got to after CO2 production stopped not the cold-crash temperature.

I'd have used 2oz of dextrose or a similar amount of table sugar assuming my beer got up to 68F which they all do before crashing to 31-32F

Your problem is your priming not gelatin. Also, if you use a little more than needed it's no big deal. It settles out regardless.

 

[applescrap]

I must be stoopid anal about sanitation... I put a piece of saran over the measuring cup and microwave it until it boils. Then I slip the saran open, put a thermo probe in, then wait until the temp comes down to 150, then add the gelatin. I keep the saran on it until pouring it in.

I know the finished beer is less likely to take on microbes, but I guess I treat everything as aseptically as possible.

-BD

Im the same as you. I wondered about that i assumed spray the cup real quick with starsan. Hey why did nobody answer my fermenting bucket question this will work in the bucket right?
Also would you do this with something like that founders Breakfast Stout clone?

I can't believe I'm asking a week or 2 in the keg they seem crystal clear without any of this tomfoolery. Furthermore I think those things you're trying to drag to the bottom I want to drink they are what make beer good I mean extra good aren't they? If they're there naturally shouldn't they remain there. Well either way please answer my questions because I reserve the right to change my mind at any time and not going to be real hard to cold crash in the winter I guess you could call that putting it in the garage


PS brundog thanks for posting on my previous thread I'm sorry for my previous comment

 

[doug293cz]

... Hey why did nobody answer my fermenting bucket question this will work in the bucket right? ...

Yes, you can gelatin fine in a primary bucket, and you don't need to stir in the gelatin. I do it all the time now. Then I keg directly from the fermenter.

Brew on