Cold Conditioning vs. Lagering

[sonvolt]

What is the difference?

I just brewed an oat stout. I fermented in primary for 7 days and in secondary for 14 days. Then, I kegged and threw just enough CO2 on top to purge the air and seal the keg. Now, I am leaving it in my refrigerator at serving temps for a few weeks before force carbing for about 5 days and then sampling.

Am I actually doing the same thing as lagering? If not, what is the difference?

One more thing - this is the first time that I will have "bulk-aged" at such cold temperatures. What will be the effect on my finished beer? Anything?

 

[Mikey]

The two activities are the same thing. Lagering is simply an English derivative of a German word that means 'to store'. We got the English word 'locker' from the same source.

Most beers improve with cold conditioning.

 

[dougjones31]

CO2 needs to be present for the beer to age properly. It forms Carbonic acid and other compunds that help mellow the beer. It also changes the PH of the beer when you add CO2.

SO.....I would suggest that you force carb and then age the beer. If you do not do it then after you "cold condition" the beer you will still have an aging period after you carb it.

For example......You brew a stout and let it sit in a cold secondary for 2 months. If you keg it and force carb it it will not be aged yet. You will have to let it age while carbonated for it to get right. So your time in the cold secondary will have been for naught.

Cold Conditioning ales has very limited success and usefulness.

 

[Dr Malt]

I agree with dougjones31 and the fact cold conditioning ales has limited usefulness. In fact, for most English style beers like porters and stouts, it is not a normal step in processing the beer and is not indicative of the style.

Dr Malt

 

[dougjones31]

The world is "Lager Stupid"!

Why try to make everything taste like a lager? I find it utter depressing that most people do not appreciate the qualities of a good Ale. Ales have wonderful flavors that create a Demolition Derby in your mouth.....while Lagers tend to be more bland and watered down tasting so that they appeal to the tasteless masses.

 

[sonvolt]

The world is "Lager Stupid"!

Why try to make everything taste like a lager? I find it utter depressing that most people do not appreciate the qualities of a good Ale. Ales have wonderful flavors that create a Demolition Derby in your mouth.....while Lagers tend to be more bland and watered down tasting so that they appeal to the tasteless masses.

Uh . . . I'm not sure what you mean or what you are trying to say.

Anyway . . . I am trying to get a sense of how my new fridge will impact my beer. I am going to go put that Oatmeal Stout on some CO2 right now, and then let it age. The only problem . . . I know once it is carbed, it is going to be even more difficult for me to keep my hands off of it.

 

[Mikey]

The world is "Lager Stupid"!

Why try to make everything taste like a lager? I find it utter depressing that most people do not appreciate the qualities of a good Ale. Ales have wonderful flavors that create a Demolition Derby in your mouth.....while Lagers tend to be more bland and watered down tasting so that they appeal to the tasteless masses.

That was harsh.....................

 

[BrewmanBeing]

Any way I can get my ales to taste like lagers? I tried watering them down but they still have that beer-y taste.

 

[ALPS]

Why try to make everything taste like a lager?

Doppelbocks are lagers. More beer should taste like that. Spaten Optimator is certainly not watery at all.

 

[Kaiser]

Am I actually doing the same thing as lagering? If not, what is the difference?

It takes a lager yeast to lager a beer. I always thought that I can make a lager substitute by using a clean ale yeast (e.g. WY1056 or WLP001). I did this for making an Oktoberfest style beer that I needed to brew in 4 weeks to take it to a friend's Oktoberfest party. The party was last weekend and even though everybody loved the beer, I didn't. I was rather disapointed by its taste. It was clean and didn't have any flaws. But to me it tasted empty (the expected maltiness was missing) and not like a lager at all. The beer was stored at near freezing for 2+ weeks.

The miracle of lagering is done by the yeast which is still active even at near frezing temps. There they slowly finish the remaining extract and other compounds that are found in young beer. To achieve that, the brewer has to be careful not to lower the temp to quickly as this may schock the yeast into dormancy. Such a shock happens if you crash the yeast to make it settle out qicker.

A well brewed lager has a lot of flavor and character. Sure it will not be a punch in the face like an imperial IPA or a stout, but that is the beauty of these beers.

Kai

 

[sonvolt]

Alright . . . some of ya'll may be missing my point. I am not trying to lager my oatmeal stout. I have it in the fridge simply because I have the room to store it there and I want to keep it cold. This is what I have always called cold conditioning.

As I did this, I wondered if this was the same process I will use when brewing a lager. If so, I guess that I don't understand the difference between cold storage and lagering. Are there certain chemical reactions that take place when a lager yeast is stored at cold temps that do not take place when an ale yeast is stored at the same temps.

Why must a lager be lagered? Etc. So, my original question was not "should I lager my stout?" My question was "What is different between cold storage and lagering? It seems that my answer may be the introduction of CO2 into the beer for cold storage.

As for being "Lager Stupid," I think that someone who is lager stupid must be stupid to the fact that there are a lot of great tasting lager beers. As for a "demolition derby" for the mouth . . . uh . . . that may be a subject for some other message board, if you know what I mean.

 

[Mikey]

Why must a lager be lagered? Etc. So, my original question was not "should I lager my stout?" My question was "What is different between cold storage and lagering? It seems that my answer may be the introduction of CO2 into the beer for cold storage.

As for being "Lager Stupid," I think that someone who is lager stupid must be stupid to the fact that there are a lot of great tasting lager beers. As for a "demolition derby" for the mouth . . . uh . . . that may be a subject for some other message board, if you know what I mean.

I understood your question the first time around and hope I gave you helpful information. Too bad others have gone off topic.

The bit about needing to introduce CO2 during lagering is a new one on me, and probably about 100 million Germans who have been making lagers since year X

 

[sonvolt]

I understood your question the first time around and hope I gave you helpful information. Too bad others have gone off topic.

The bit about needing to introduce CO2 during lagering is a new one on me, and probably about 100 million Germans who have been making lagers since year X

No . . . what I meant was that CO2 needs to be added prior to cold conditioning an ale. Lagering is done without cold conditioning.

 

[Kaiser]

No . . . what I meant was that CO2 needs to be added prior to cold conditioning an ale. Lagering is done without cold conditioning.

In the german lager breweing process the CO2 actually builds up during the lagering process. Which is actually a true secondary fermentation at lower temps.

But lagers don't need to be lagered. Some brewers keep their lagers in the primary at 50F for 4 weeks and crash the beer after that time. In this case you the yeast will actually do the clean-up job much faster and the beer should taste just like a lager. But there must be a taste benefit to real lagering since it is commercially still done at lower temps. I still have to see the difference for myself.

Kai

 

[jwalk4]

...But lagers don't need to be lagered. Some brewers keep their lagers in the primary at 50F for 4 weeks and crash the beer after that time. In this case you the yeast will actually do the clean-up job much faster and the beer should taste just like a lager. But there must be a taste benefit to real lagering since it is commercially still done at lower temps. I still have to see the difference for myself.

Kai

Raising the dead here.

@Kaiser, 10 years on from this post, do you still believe that you have not found a taste difference from lagering to not lagering?

The reason I'm asking is that I have been jonesing to make a lager but have not the equipment required to traditionally lager a beer for weeks or months. However, I could justify a prolonged primary at lower temps.

 

[Zepth]

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

I have done both an extended primary (in the serving fridge !) and the method listed above. Both produced great results. I now use the fast lager method almost exclusively because I have since acquired a fermentation chamber.

And yes. Holy necropost.