Cold Break - In or Out?

[BakerStreetBeers]

I did search and browse the results a bit before posting, but lotsa references to cold break come up and didn't find what I needed.

What I want to know is how important is it to separate the cold break and keep it out of the primary. My general practice has been to chill (immersion chiller) in the ale pail I am using for my primary. So, boil done, flameout. Sterlized chiller in sterlized ale pail. Pour hot wort through sterlized strainer (for hops) into pail and then chill.

I often let the kettle sit for 5-10 mins before pouring it off, particularly when I have a flameout hop addition. When I do this, there is definitely a good quantity of gunk (and hops) in the bottom of the kettle which I don't transfer. This is the cold break, correct? or at least part of it?

What am I doing wrong or risking by not chilling completely before putting the wort into the fermenter? If this error/risk is significant, how much can I mitigate it by consistently practicing or extending the post flameout rest? Is this just for clarity/aesthetics or are there deeper quality effects?

When I first was taught all-grain, I seem to remember being told that an advantage of doing it this way was that the wort contacts everything -- primary fermenter, chiller, strainer -- at a high enough temp to sterilize, or further sterlize, these things.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Blender]

I try to get as much of it strained as I can but there is still a healthy amount that gets through or coagulates in the carboy. I chill the wort in the kettle and then siphon off as much clear wort as I can. The remainder is strained through a paint strainer in a 3 gallon pail and then added to the carboy.

 

[brrman]

I have heard that having some cold break in the primary is actually healthy for the yeast.

 

[flowerysong]

The stuff in the bottom of the kettle pre-chilling is not cold break. The "gunk" is probably a mix of your hot break and hop residue. Cold break is not formed until the wort is rapidly cooled, allowing the chill-haze causing proteins to permanently coagulate and settle out. Getting the cold break in the fermenter isn't a problem; in fact, filtering it all out could be slightly detrimental, as it contains some stuff that yeast like.

However, by pouring hot wort (through a strainer, yet) you're summoning the bogey man of homebrewing, hot side aeration. I've never encountered a flawed beer that could be directly traced to HSA, but there's no reason to needlessly increase the risk of running into it.

One risk of having an extended hot rest post boil is dimethyl sulfide formation. During the boil DMS is formed and then quickly driven off with the steam; once the wort stops boiling, DMS is still being formed but has no place to go.

 

[BakerStreetBeers]

The stuff in the bottom of the kettle pre-chilling is not cold break. The "gunk" is probably a mix of your hot break and hop residue. Cold break is not formed until the wort is rapidly cooled, allowing the chill-haze causing proteins to permanently coagulate and settle out. Getting the cold break in the fermenter isn't a problem; in fact, filtering it all out could be slightly detrimental, as it contains some stuff that yeast like.

However, by pouring hot wort (through a strainer, yet) you're summoning the bogey man of homebrewing, hot side aeration. I've never encountered a flawed beer that could be directly traced to HSA, but there's no reason to needlessly increase the risk of running into it.

One risk of having an extended hot rest post boil is dimethyl sulfide formation. During the boil DMS is formed and then quickly driven off with the steam; once the wort stops boiling, DMS is still being formed but has no place to go.

Good feedback all. So it sounds like cold break is more an aesthetic problem than serious quality issue.

Re: Hot side aeration. Heard of it, but obviously more to learn there. I could just as well strain the hops out of the kettle at the end of the boil, or let the go into the primary. Would that help? I used to use a narrow hop sack, but didn't like how it floated in the kettle, didn't think I was getting all of that hoppy goodness out of it. Maybe time to look into the paint strainer.

Re: DMS. I'm more familiar with this one and feel fairly confident I have it covered. 5-10 minutes after flameout when I pour the wort into the fermenter for chilling, it's easily still 190+. Once I turn the chiller on it's a very quick drop to 125. My (very possibly incorrect) understanding is that DMS formation happens somewhere in between these temps. In any case, I haven't had any issues with sulfurous smells in my finished product. I also understand that a nice long (60 min) full boil helps to reduce the incidence of DMS.

Thanks to all for the feedback. At this point, my takeaway is that I don't need to change my process ONLY to separate cold break. But I should look at potential problems with HSA and DMS. Time to send a memo to the TLA department. (TLA = Three Letter Acronyms)

 

[Blender]

I'm curious as to why you don't just use the chiller in the kettle. Then pouring it through a strainer would aerate it a bit. It kind of removes both potential problems with DMS/HSA/TLA.

 

[BakerStreetBeers]

I'm curious as to why you don't just use the chiller in the kettle. Then pouring it through a strainer would aerate it a bit. It kind of removes both potential problems with DMS/HSA/TLA.

Great question. Actually a question that I think will motivate me to take steps that will improve my brewing.

The main reason I am chilling in the fermenter is that I am currently boiling in two kettles. My largest is 20 qt and I have a smaller ~12 qt one. So to get 5.0 or 5.5 gallons I have to run both. This would easily be solved by throwing down some dough and getting a 24 or 30 qt kettle. Mostly I've been waiting for such an animal to show up at Costco, or elsewhere for a good price. I think it's time to get more serious about this quest.

 

[Blender]

Great question. Actually a question that I think will motivate me to take steps that will improve my brewing.

The main reason I am chilling in the fermenter is that I am currently boiling in two kettles. My largest is 20 qt and I have a smaller ~12 qt one. So to get 5.0 or 5.5 gallons I have to run both. This would easily be solved by throwing down some dough and getting a 24 or 30 qt kettle. Mostly I've been waiting for such an animal to show up at Costco, or elsewhere for a good price. I think it's time to get more serious about this quest.

The Megapots are pretty nice. I have an 8 gallon which works but I wish it was 10.>>>Megapot

 

[teu1003]

Good feedback all. So it sounds like cold break is more an aesthetic problem than serious quality issue.

QUOTE]

Be careful here ... on page 170 of "New Brewing Lager Beers", the author advises using a "settling tank" to separate chilled wort from cold break. I just run everything out of the kettle into a carboy and let it sit an hour and
let everything settle out before racking to a fermenter.

To quote the book: "good hot and cold breaks are meaningless if a significant amount of trub is carried into the ferment" and "trub carried into the ferment taints the beer with objectional flavors and aromas"

I usually ferment a minimum of 2 weeks ... 4 weeks for lagers ... i can't believe all that crap in the ferementer wouldn't affect the finished product.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

To quote the book: "good hot and cold breaks are meaningless if a significant amount of trub is carried into the ferment" and "trub carried into the ferment taints the beer with objectional flavors and aromas"

I wouldn't put too much stock in that statement, it certainly runs contrary to my experience and that of most every brewer I know. Maybe it's more applicable to the world of lagers, where often it seems the goal (IMHO) is to end up with a product virtually devoid of flavor!

Furthermore, I think a good cold break is VERY important, as it causes proteins which otherwise might stay suspended forever to coagulate and drop out.

While I do try to keep cold break out of my fermenter, I don't sweat it when I'm less then successful. Which is most of the time!

 

[springer]

Great question. Actually a question that I think will motivate me to take steps that will improve my brewing.

The main reason I am chilling in the fermenter is that I am currently boiling in two kettles. My largest is 20 qt and I have a smaller ~12 qt one. So to get 5.0 or 5.5 gallons I have to run both. This would easily be solved by throwing down some dough and getting a 24 or 30 qt kettle. Mostly I've been waiting for such an animal to show up at Costco, or elsewhere for a good price. I think it's time to get more serious about this quest.

Sam's has a SS 24 qt pot . I think it was 50-60 bucks.

But really why not use a turkey fryer pot? Most any outdoors shop has them and some are SS but nothing wrong with aluminum.

I bought a 15.5 keggle and its just to big as I am still doing 5 gallon brews. I came across a 1/4 keg at the scrap yard and made a keggle out of it work's great.

 

[conpewter]

I have a 15.5 gallon keggle, I don't find it too big to do 5 gallon batches, and it's just enough room to do 10-11 gal batches (starting volume of 13.5 gallons or so). The 5 gallon boils are of course lower down, but I have no issues with it. I'd rather have my keggle than go back to brewing in my 7 gallon pot with 6.5 gallons of wort.

 

[Chriso]

Agreed with conpewter. Brewed 5g in my keggle on Wednesday, and when i hit my boil, it foamed up like an angry mofo. But it didn't have anywhere to escape because the kettle's so damn tall. So I got great hot break!

But I don't have a dip tube and things went wonky, so I had to choose between 4gal with no hot break in it, or 6 gal with a TON of coagulated crap.

I went with the crap.

I should've checked to make sure it didnt blow its lid though. Oh well. RDWHAHB. it'll be fine, and it's in a cabinet so I don't have to worry about "painting" the walls.