Cold and hot temp control

[djonesax]

Those of you that have fermentation chamber's inside your home where temperatures typically don't drop below 70-ish degrees. Did you bother with a dual phase temperature controller to power a heat source to bring temperature up, or just let it come up on its own when needed.

I'm trying to decide if a dual phase controller is worth it or if a single phase is sufficient.

Thanks,

David

 

[Natdavis777]

If your chamber is somewhere where ambient temp doesnt drop below 70F, you would suffice with only a single phase controller.

If your chamber is somewhere where temps can drop pretty low, ie a garage in the winter like me, then you would benefit from a dual source.

I will say that I use a single phase controller, and in the winter, use a paint can with a light inside as my heat source, and let the freezer ping the temp down while leaving the heat source constantly on... I dont like this method as it doesnt do the freezer well, so I will soon invest in an STC 1000, and move my single phase johnson control to my kegerator.

 

[djonesax]

I ferment in my basement and the temp is usually about 68. It's 65 right now. My thoughts were that the paint can is overkill for me because of the ambient temperature of the room but I didn't want to under think it.

 

[Natdavis777]

My point with the paint can is that my garage gets down to 30F in the winter given my geographical location. This causes my fermentation chamber (an upright freezer) to drop its internal temp (without a heat source) to below ideal ale fermentation temps.

Since you are fermenting in a basement, and not a chamber, per say, you should be fine.

 

[djonesax]

My point with the paint can is that my garage gets down to 30F in the winter given my geographical location. This causes my fermentation chamber (an upright freezer) to drop its internal temp (without a heat source) to below ideal ale fermentation temps.

Since you are fermenting in a basement, and not a chamber, per say, you should be fine.

Oh yeah I totally get it. Thanks. I'm thinking I may just buy the Johnson then and be done with it.

 

[nahiiii]

I dont like this method as it doesnt do the freezer well, so I will soon invest in an STC 1000, and move my single phase johnson control to my kegerator.???

 

[RM-MN]

Get the dual controller. It won't be significantly more expensive than the single controller and if you plan to use it for several years, the yearly cost will be peanuts. Sooner or later you will wish you had it so you can heat your fermentation chamber to make a saison finish up. I didn't heat my last saison and now I wish I had as it is terribly overcarbonated since the yeast got more active when I added the priming sugar. I had left it at 72 for 4 weeks and the FG was stable for a week at 1.002 so I bottled it.

 

[djonesax]

Do you mean the freezer part of the fridge? My fridge doesn't have a freezer. How would the stc be easier on it than a Johnson control?

 

[muels]

I have an STC and like it. It was 13 bucks. Is there any major advantage to the Johnson to justify the price or just the DIY aspect? Never used a Johnson (no smart comments lol)


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[Natdavis777]

I have an STC and like it. It was 13 bucks. Is there any major advantage to the Johnson to justify the price or just the DIY aspect? Never used a Johnson (no smart comments lol)


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From what I've read about the STC 1000, it's a great product. My wish I would have bought that instead of the johnson. More functionality at a fraction of the price

 

[djonesax]

I have an STC and like it. It was 13 bucks. Is there any major advantage to the Johnson to justify the price or just the DIY aspect? Never used a Johnson (no smart comments lol)


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It could be BS but my local homebrew store told me that the Johnson control would be more accurate than the STC and it's probe is better and fits most thermowells already.

I was potentially shying away from the STC for DIY reasons. If I bought the Johnson I would be done very quickly.

I question now is whether or not I really need to phase controller. I don't typically like saissons so I doubt I will be making any. I'm not sure what other styles out there require the fermentation temperature above 70° . I would however do lagers and I know I'm supposed to bring the temperature of those up after initial fermentation so the yeast can clean up. But do I really need a heat source or will the room temperature bring the fridge up to temperature naturally and timely enough?

David

 

[muels]

It could be BS but my local homebrew store told me that the Johnson control would be more accurate than the STC and it's probe is better and fits most thermowells already.



I was potentially shying away from the STC for DIY reasons. If I bought the Johnson I would be done very quickly.



I question now is whether or not I really need to phase controller. I don't typically like saissons so I doubt I will be making any. I'm not sure what other styles out there require the fermentation temperature above 70° . I would however do lagers and I know I'm supposed to bring the temperature of those up after initial fermentation so the yeast can clean up. But do I really need a heat source or will the room temperature bring the fridge up to temperature naturally and timely enough?



David

My garage is heated in the winter and hot in the summer but I like the 2 stage because I don't have to think about it. If it's cold it'll warm it up, if it's warm it'll cool it down! I don't know the specific answer though. There all lots of DIY stuff on the forum. You are also welcome to PM me if you have questions.


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[Ole_Smoky]

What are you guys using to heat your chambers? I'm just finishing up a stand up fridge with the freezer on top for a chamber using an STC1000. It's an older fridge so space is a little limited. I don't know what would be best in a tight space to keep the heating even?

 

[Natdavis777]

What are you guys using to heat your chambers? I'm just finishing up a stand up fridge with the freezer on top for a chamber using an STC1000. It's an older fridge so space is a little limited. I don't know what would be best in a tight space to keep the heating even?

I have a lightbulb fixture in an unused paint can. Can easily heat my upright freezer to high 70s when ambient temp in the garage is in the 30s.

 

[muels]

I have a one of those temporary light fixtures for remodeling a house that I hang from the fridge top. Works fine


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[Ole_Smoky]

So like the one with the giant clothes pin on it? This puts of enough heat with it plugged into the hot side of the stc? We are onto something now, maybe heat bulbs for a lizard tank! The paint can just disperses the heat more evenly?

 

[smithabusa]

So like the one with the giant clothes pin on it? This puts of enough heat with it plugged into the hot side of the stc? We are onto something now, maybe heat bulbs for a lizard tank! The paint can just disperses the heat more evenly?

Fermwraps work well, so do the light bulb heaters. I have a number of options if you are interested to see the stc controllers and kits I have. Id definitely go dual control versus single


http://www.boostbysmith.com/fermkit.html

 

[cjgenever]

If ambient ranges between 65 and 70 you will need both. Most ale yeasts do well at low to mid 60 then ramped to 70 at end to promote final attenuation and clean up.

Stc-1000 is only $18 plus a few $ for wiring. Works great for me

 

[cjgenever]

A heating pad taped to the side of my fermenter does the job well. Usually on low. I put two on my 15 gal

They need to not have an auto off feature

 

[djonesax]

I decided on one like the stc-1000 but the one that had been programmed to display Fahrenheit. It looks it will be easy to hardwire as a permanent part of the fridge. I may or may not do heat, haven't decided yet. It is my understanding that when you increase fermentation temperature you should do it slowly, so maybe letting the fridge come up to temperature naturally might be sufficient.

David

 

[Ole_Smoky]

When do you usually ramp up the temps to finish up? Im new to this chamber thing.

 

[djonesax]

When do you usually ramp up the temps to finish up? Im new to this chamber thing.

For example, with a lager you want to do a diacetyl rest at around 62F after initial fermentation which could have been in the 50's. This allows the yeast to absorb the diacetyl produced by fermentation which can give the beer a butterscotch flavor.

That might be the one and only reason that I would need to bring up the temps since I ferment in a room thats already about 68 degrees and I don't plan to ever brew saisons which can go into the 80's.

My second biggest reason for wanting the fermentation chamber is so that I can cold crash with out having to lift 10 gallons of beer into my chest freezer kegerator.

David

 

[Natdavis777]

When do you usually ramp up the temps to finish up? Im new to this chamber thing.

When the beer is nearing the end of fermentation, so when there is about 20% left.

I dont take gravity readings during fermentation, so I usually start to warm the beer up when the krausen starts to fall. This could be as early as day 3-4, depending on style, yeast, etc. You want to do it while the yeast is still active and in suspension, to clean up any byproducts created

 

[MattyIce]

I started with a Johnson controller and now have the STC-1000. The only advantage of the Johnson is that it is almost plug and play. The STC was extremely simple to set up, but took extra time with wiring and setting up the project box. For the price of a single Johnson, I now have a dual STC setup, one for the kegerator and one for the ferm chamber.

 

[djonesax]

Sweet, I got my ITC-1000 which is basically and STC-1000 but reprogrammed to support fahrenheit.

I'll be wiring this up tonight hopefully.

Thanks for all the input.

David

 

[Trencher]

I used a single cooling controller for a while but found that as fermentation ended the beer wouldn't hold its temp as well as I liked. Once the yeast is finished with most of the sugars and stops generating heat you'll need an external heat source to keep it stable. Otherwise the temp can plummet suddenly and you only get 80% of your expected attenuation.

Now I have a tiny space heater on a dual stage controller. Having a fan to move the warm air around my freezer is a bonus.

 

[djonesax]

Once the yeast is finished with most of the sugars and stops generating heat you'll need an external heat source to keep it stable. Otherwise the temp can plummet suddenly and you only get 80% of your expected attenuation.

Thats great information, that I had never considered but is why I started this thread. To find information that I had not considered.

So the thermogenic affect of the fermenting yeast will try to drive the temp up but the controller is keeping temp in check. Then suddenly the temp drops because the fermentation slows and there is less heat created by the fermentation and the ambient temperature of the fridge brings the temps down. So then letting the fermentation warm up naturally with out a heat source may be too slow and the fermentation could stop prematurely...

Did I understand that correctly?

David

 

[MattyIce]

Thats great information, that I had never considered but is why I started this thread. To find information that I had not considered.

So the thermogenic affect of the fermenting yeast will try to drive the temp up but the controller is keeping temp in check. Then suddenly the temp drops because the fermentation slows and there is less heat created by the fermentation and the ambient temperature of the fridge brings the temps down. So then letting the fermentation warm up naturally with out a heat source may be too slow and the fermentation could stop prematurely...

Did I understand that correctly?

David

Yep.

 

[MagicMatt]

I just want to chime in a bit. My chest freezer fermentation chamber is in my house, so the temp never gets below 65°F. I have a Johnson controller, and it works just fine for what anyone would need in this situation (i.e. room temp ambient temperatures). The Johnson, while only single stage, can still handle both heating and cooling with the quick and easy repositioning of a jumper.

So normally, the Johnson is hooked to the freezer and keeps the temps around 65-70°F for fermenting ales, and then I cold crash it to 34°F. To brew saisons (or anything else that requires temps higher than 70°F), I switch the Johnson to heat mode and hook it up to a heat rope (http://amzn.com/B001OVBEEK) to control the temps. This thing works great!

I understand the STC is more useful and a good deal cheaper, and that usually more than enough reason to go with it instead. But don't think you can't get by just fine with just a Johnson and nothing else. I've been running it this way for quite some time without any issues at all.

Also, I'd HIGHLY suggest NOT using the old "paint can and light bulb" trick, as you're just asking for an electrical mishap there, what with the moisture that exists in the fermentation chamber. Get something made for humid conditions and with no exposed electrical components (even the light socket is a hazard). If you absolutely MUST use a light socket, at least get an infrared heat lamp as it is made to conduct heat without emitting light. Use the right tool for the job!

 

[Trencher]

Thats great information, that I had never considered but is why I started this thread. To find information that I had not considered.

So the thermogenic affect of the fermenting yeast will try to drive the temp up but the controller is keeping temp in check. Then suddenly the temp drops because the fermentation slows and there is less heat created by the fermentation and the ambient temperature of the fridge brings the temps down. So then letting the fermentation warm up naturally with out a heat source may be too slow and the fermentation could stop prematurely...

Did I understand that correctly?

David

Exactly. I had a batch of Wee Heavy stop at about 1.040 a few years ago when this happened, and I hooked up the heater shortly thereafter. Spending the extra bucks to have true control over the fermentation temp is well worth it.